Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Est.1974]

48 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m nervous we’re going to do something dumb at QB.

I think that is quite possible. Something is brewing. 

 

Is Jimmy G safe in San Fran?

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I’m nervous we’re going to do something dumb at QB.

The words that scare me the most about this offseason is that we're close. 

 

I feel like we're going to do what Snyder has done so many times in the past (particularly with Jeff George over Brad Johnson) and just think we can microwave our way to a championship instead of building one. 

[Burgold]

7 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The words that scare me the most about this offseason is that we're close. 

 

I feel like we're going to do what Snyder has done so many times in the past (particularly with Jeff George over Brad Johnson) and just think we can microwave our way to a championship instead of building one. 

I think Rivera is resistant to that. Obviously, last year that move would have been signing Cam. Rivera showed no interest in bringing his old starter. 

[moondog]

26 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Interesting. I've been hearing this particulaly from Sheehan and Galdi before the Heinicke stardom. I have to sit and question what we're willing to give up. Are we looking at another Brunell/McNabb/Smith trade? It wouldn't surprise me because we've done it 3 times before and we can say that 2 of those 3 times led us to the playoffs (very low bar). But we traded 3rd rounders for those QBs (plus some extra including Fuller for Smith). Is that enough to get one of the top guys, or is there somebody else we'd be considering. 

 

On that next point, I wonder what Ron and the FO thinks about the second tier of QBs available this offseason. There may be Dak/Deshawn/Matt R/Matt S, and we know about the guys in the draft, but what about guys like Brissett, Tribusky, Mullins, Dobbs, Beathard, etc. Those guys can be gotten for next to nothing. Heck, there may even be another guy who's a backup that say Turner scouted that we're interested in trading for like we did with Allen (Brett Rypien, Mason Rudolph, Mariota, Driskel, Stidham, Minshew, etc) or even Darnold who has been mentioned here before. 

 

I think this is an important question because while Ron has glowingly praised Allen (saying we could have won the division with him) he hasn't said that same thing for Heinicke and he cut Heinicke in favor of Allen in Carolina and traded for Allen when he could have signed Heinicke for nothing. All this leads me to believe that this is Allen's job to lose right now, but the same questions we have about Heinicke's durablility are there for Allen as well. 

I would be most interested in Minshew. Durable and can make off schedule plays. Infectious personality and could probably be had for a much later pick than any of these other guys especially since they’ll have Lawrence. I would be ok with this and a lot higher on it then just about all the others mentioned given their cost and poor track records. Anyone talking about pedigree of former early picks that haven’t lived up to it just confused me right now. No thanks. 

4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I think Rivera is resistant to that. Obviously, last year that move would have been signing Cam. Rivera showed no interest in bringing his old starter. 

I hope so too but that was under his premise of thinking the team needed a year or two so he wanted to see what the young guys could do. He clearly made the switch this year because he felt they were much closer than he anticipated (sure at first it was a division thing but I think we can all see the defense is contender worthy). 
 

I’m hopeful but much less confident we will follow that same path this offseason but obviously hope we do. 

[Warhead36]

Pass on Minshew. He's a worse Rex Grossman.

[skinzplay]

Re-sign Allen and Heinicke, bring in a reasonably priced vet for competition. Let them duke it out. Don't derail the process of building this team the right way, which is how RR is going about it. Let's keep that up!

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[DefinitelyMaybe]

There really should be conversations going on right now with Smiths camp regards getting him into a non playing role in the organisation, start tempting him into retirement by offering a path out of playing 

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The words that scare me the most about this offseason is that we're close. 

 

I feel like we're going to do what Snyder has done so many times in the past (particularly with Jeff George over Brad Johnson) and just think we can microwave our way to a championship instead of building one. 

 

Rivera seems to be in charge versus Dan or at least I hope so.  Back then Dan was supposedly the defacto GM.

 

Coming from the dude who mocked Bruce's "we are close" comment to no end.  I actually think this team is close if it fixes the offense.  This isn't like the 2019 defense which was the 6th worst in the league as far as its ranking and a bad offense to match.  The we are close stuff in that context is comical.  But its not now.

 

We got the #2 ranked defense.  Granted maybe a tad overrated and needs additions but that defense is close.  And we got some weapons on offense.   A good off season can make us a force.  We just went toe to toe with arguably the most talented team in the NFL (lol, at lease Madden thinks so) and almost pulled off an upset.  We aren't a mile away.  We are close if we can solve the QB spot and add a game breaking receiver IMO.  And on defense:  MLB, FS. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[moondog]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Pass on Minshew. He's a worse Rex Grossman.

I’m not sure where you would draw that comparison. Minshew is mobile. In 23 games 37 TDs to 11 ints. He has 1 rushing TD and 4 fumbles, not sure how many lost but still nearly 3:1 td to turnover ratio. 5500 passing yards and 500 on the ground. How does that even remotely compare to Grossman?

 

Not a fan of his completion percentage around 63% but he is on the worst team in the league. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I think this is an important question because while Ron has glowingly praised Allen (saying we could have won the division with him) he hasn't said that same thing for Heinicke and he cut Heinicke in favor of Allen in Carolina and traded for Allen when he could have signed Heinicke for nothing. All this leads me to believe that this is Allen's job to lose right now, but the same questions we have about Heinicke's durablility are there for Allen as well. 

 

Agree.  I got no idea what they will do, but it seems clear they won't stand pat.  I think Casserly the other day summed it up well for me which is keep an open mind and see what comes.  

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Coming from the dude who mocked Bruce's "we are close" comment to no end.  I actually think this team is close if it fixes the offense.  This isn't like the 2019 defense which was the 6th worst in the league as far as its ranking and a bad offense to match.  The we are close stuff in that context is comical.  But its not now.

 

We are close, but we were close in 1998 and instead of continuing on that path we went after George. We know Snyder isn't "the GM" now but the story about the drafting of Haskins is enough for me. Its like Thom Loverro says, this is a good team but with a star and that star is Dan Snyder. You never know when he's going to go off, come into a room and say this is my team and I'm going to do things my way. I tried to believe he had changed under Bruce and I wanted to believe that we were different but now I'm back to my pre Mike S. feelings about Dan that he is the worse thing this franchise has ever seen. I thought Bruce (the one thing I liked about Bruce) was keeping him from making decisions, even if Bruce's decisions weren't great they weren't Snyder level bad (that's not what this post is about so if you disagree its cool I don't want to go down that road again). 

 

But the Haskins draft (which I denied til the last days) lets me know just how involved Dan is and beacuse of that I can't take anybody's "power" in this organization seriously. I mean maybe we'll do good in spire of Dan, but what do you always say, Dan likes to put his fingers into the QB pool. He's not making up draft boards or caring about the WR that could be a steal in the 5th. He cares about the face of the franchise and wants to draft the Sanchez or the Haskins. Its the most depressing part of this offseason, wondering how he's going to mess it up. 

[DWinzit]

Based on some of these rumors we all should be concerned. Regardless of Rivera's status Snyder has always stepped in a mucked up the QB situation.

Me no trust Snyder...

 

If they are talking bringing in reinforcements other that Heinicke and Allen and they are not willing to wait for the mid rounds of the draft...no way will the player be a Minshew. It would be a buy with more of a resume and probably cost assets via acquisition by trade. 

[HigSkin]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

What is the one essential trait a quarterback must possess to succeed in the NFL?

 

Kingsbury has something of a devotion to the position; he’s a former college and NFL quarterback who, at various points in his coaching career, has helped develop Kansas City’s Patrick Mahomes, Cleveland’s Baker Mayfield and Arizona’s Kyler Murray. Surely, there must be one thing he looks for more than anything else upon encountering a quarterback he hasn’t seen before — something he values so much that a player’s lack of it would immediately disqualify him as a professional prospect in his mind.

 

His answer was a bit of a surprise. Rather than slip into a lecture about arm strength or throwing angles or an ability to see open receivers downfield or any of the other cliches tossed around on television as the marks of great quarterbacks, he talked about running — specifically, the ability to run when it mattered.

 

 

“For me, it’s, ‘Can they get out of a bad place?’ ” Kingsbury said. “When the play breaks down you don’t have to run a 4.3, but can they move around to extend the play and make something happen down the field?”

 

As the season went on, we asked the same question of several more NFL coaches, wondering if they had their own idea of what mattered most to them at the position. In some ways, NFL quarterback play has never been more interesting, with passers of varying ages, sizes and playing styles taking snaps across the league. Just look at Sunday’s divisional-round playoff matchups, with a pair of 25-year-old scramblers (Mahomes and Mayfield) facing off in one game, and aging pocket passers Tom Brady and Drew Brees going head-to-head in the other.

 

But while all of the coaches had definitive ideas about the one thing an NFL quarterback must have, their answers were not the same. None of them, it seemed, believed in the same, single indelible trait.

 

For instance, Tampa Bay Coach Bruce Arians said he values decision-making, while Seattle’s Pete Carroll looks for “great character and great competitiveness.” Some of their replies stretched for more than a minute. Interestingly, none of the coaches said anything about throwing. Maybe they assumed the ability to deliver a decent pass is such an obvious skill that it wasn’t worth mentioning, but given the obsession before each draft about who can throw the ball the longest, hardest or fastest, it would seem the kind of thing to have at least been mentioned once.

The closest to do so was San Francisco’s Kyle Shanahan, who said quarterbacks must be really, really good at one thing, “because if you’re not one of the best throwers in the world, you’ve got to be extremely athletic.” Or, “If you’re extremely athletic … you’ve still got to be able to throw and play in the pocket.”

 

But Shanahan — who spent years studying the position under his father, Mike, the former Los Angeles Raiders, Denver and Washington coach famous for his success with John Elway — was more interested in discussing something that had nothing to do with the physical requirements of playing quarterback.

 

“Mentally, you better have a special person,” he said. “I don’t care whether you’re the best player in the league or the worst; it doesn’t matter. They’re going to come after you, especially quarterbacks. You can play better than anyone, and then all of a sudden you have two bad games and it’s all your fault and you’ve got to sit there and take it and be a certain kind of guy that can handle that week in and week out, year in and year out.”

 

...The bluntest reply came from Arians, the Buccaneers coach long known for his honesty while developing quarterbacks such as Ben Roethlisberger and Andrew Luck, and who is now in the playoffs’ second round in his first season with Brady.

“He’s got to be able to have a quick-twitch fiber in his brain,” Arians said on a video conference call a few days before Tampa Bay’s first-round victory over Washington. “If you can’t make split[-second] decisions, you can’t really play the position. You can be the best athlete in the world, but you have to be able to decipher things so fast. If you can’t decipher fast, you’re going to struggle in this game.”

Arians was asked if such decision-making was innate or if it eventually could be learned. He chuckled.

“I think it’s learnable,” he replied. “But you’re going to get beat up while you’re learning, that’s for sure.”

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

I agree with Arians and Carroll. And Shanahan I guess, too. They are saying variations of the same thing. 
 

 

[Thinking Skins]

@SkinsinparadiseI like all their responses. And I think Heinicke passes them all too. Well, we have to see about the mentality part but being cut a few times and being able to work harder and get back on a roster and have the best game of his career after that does say something for him. 

[PartyPosse]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I agree with Arians and Carroll. And Shanahan I guess, too. They are saying variations of the same thing. 
 

 

Bottom line is they are seem to think it’s the mentally strong that thrive, not just the physically strong. Physical attributes at that position are overrated. It helps to be able to throw a ball 60 yards or be elusive when scrambling but it don’t mean squat if you aren’t able to take advantage of either gift by knowing when it’s required.

[HigSkin]

 

[DefinitelyMaybe]

56 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

This is ridiculous, they waited so long to get him and they consider dropping him after first season! I genuinely think he’ll come good and depending on cost would not be adverse to having him with us

[wit33]

34 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Bottom line is they are seem to think it’s the mentally strong that thrive, not just the physically strong. Physical attributes at that position are overrated. It helps to be able to throw a ball 60 yards or be elusive when scrambling but it don’t mean squat if you aren’t able to take advantage of either gift by knowing when it’s required.

Just total speculation and to add some fire to the discussion, but when watching Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes they both seem to be average (maybe less earlier on in their careers) in terms processing and making reads. Mahomes even shared this fact on Lebrons show/podcast, just slinging it his first couple of years and barely scratching the surface mentally. 
 

For example neither guy, in my opinion is processing as fast Alex Smith, buuuut.... lol

 

Mahomes clip:

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by wit33

[HigSkin]

19 minutes ago, DefinitelyMaybe said:

This is ridiculous, they waited so long to get him and they consider dropping him after first season! I genuinely think he’ll come good and depending on cost would not be adverse to having him with us

 

Yea, media kept saying there wasn't a divided lockroom, i.e. Fitz but obviously there was and Miami is in a spot where they could take a QB at #3. 

[88Comrade2000]

The QB question must be answered.  If Ron gets it wrong, he will be gone in a couple of years. Now, will Synder interfere? 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

We are close, but we were close in 1998 and instead of continuing on that path we went after George. We know Snyder isn't "the GM" now but the story about the drafting of Haskins is enough for me. Its like Thom Loverro says, this is a good team but with a star and that star is Dan Snyder. You never know when he's going to go off, come into a room and say this is my team and I'm going to do things my way. I tried to believe he had changed under Bruce and I wanted to believe that we were different but now I'm back to my pre Mike S. feelings about Dan that he is the worse thing this franchise has ever seen. I thought Bruce (the one thing I liked about Bruce) was keeping him from making decisions, even if Bruce's decisions weren't great they weren't Snyder level bad (that's not what this post is about so if you disagree its cool I don't want to go down that road again). 

 

But the Haskins draft (which I denied til the last days) lets me know just how involved Dan is and beacuse of that I can't take anybody's "power" in this organization seriously. I mean maybe we'll do good in spire of Dan, but what do you always say, Dan likes to put his fingers into the QB pool. He's not making up draft boards or caring about the WR that could be a steal in the 5th. He cares about the face of the franchise and wants to draft the Sanchez or the Haskins. Its the most depressing part of this offseason, wondering how he's going to mess it up. 

 

No disagreement from me.  Dan is a train wreck.  We just got to hope that he lets Rivera do his thing. 

 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Just total speculation and to add some fire to the discussion, but when watching Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes they both seem to be average (maybe less earlier on in their careers) in terms processing and making reads. Mahomes even shared this fact on Lebrons show/podcast, just slinging it his first couple of years and barely scratching the surface mentally. 
 

For example neither guy, in my opinion is processing as fast Alex Smith, buuuut.... lol

 

Mahomes clip:

 

I read Arians book about QBs he elaborated on that point some.  Basically he said when you are on the field you have to diagram what the defense is trying to do super fast.  He said almost every QB he has coached -- the good ones, the backups, etc could dicipher a defense for the most part with enough time but the really good ones can diagnose things super quick.  

 

He also said in a separate excerpt that mobility is a major help if you got it. 

 

In Arian's defense they asked him to pick the top attribute.  He didn't say it was the only attribute.  His book got into a mryiad of attributes that he likes. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DefinitelyMaybe]

26 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Yea, media kept saying there wasn't a divided lockroom, i.e. Fitz but obviously there was and Miami is in a spot where they could take a QB at #3. 

I’d certainly be making a call and sounding out what they want