Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

@SkinsinparadiseI like all their responses. And I think Heinicke passes them all too. Well, we have to see about the mentality part but being cut a few times and being able to work harder and get back on a roster and have the best game of his career after that does say something for him. 

 

I think its fair to say if some are banking on a dude who was undrafted, played for a small school and is undersized -- almost purely based on 1.25 games (his previous 1 start at Carolina wasn't that hot, 3 INTs) they are going on a wild leap.  So count me among the wild and crazy ones.  😀   I love that 1.25 sample and I'd gamble on it but I get those who think we might be jumping gun.  My point here is while i get your enthusiaism about Heinicke and share a lot of it, I can't though argue that the rationale/cool argument is to ride next season with him as the main guy as if what team wouldn't?  It's a risky roll of the dice versus the rationale-cooler heads approach to next season IMO.

 

If Heinicke was really 6 "1 and 210 I'd risk it.  But as Heinicke himself joked, its not so.  He said he's under 6 foot.  I'd guess:  5 "11, 185 pounds.  For that reason coupled with his history of getting banged up in a short sample, I'd bring another dude into this equation as well while bringing Heinicke back.  

 

Its hard for me to get a feel for what they are going to do because I get two conflicting narratives depending on the source

 

A.  Rivera gets a team needs a QB to be a real contender, a long term solution, and he knows its the top need or something like that 

 

B.  The options might not be hot.  Might prefer a veteran.  Prefer mobiliy.

 

Both points can take you in totally different directions so it feels like anything is possible. 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Prediction:

Washington seems likely to keep Heinicke and Allen. Given Allen's injury, Heinicke projects as the No. 2 on the 2021 roster, with Allen the No. 3 - inactive on game days as he works towards a return.

That makes it likely Washington will snag a quarterback through either free agency or a trade.

Any of these options are plausible, but I'll put my chips on two in particular - Matt Stafford, given how much football he has left and his history of playing through tough injuries, and Tyrod Taylor, who would be a value play here, allowing Washington to continue to build the nucleus of a perennial contender.

 

That also leaves room for a late-round draft pick or undrafted player to join the Football Team as a practice squad quarterback in 2021.

 

https://richmond.com/sports/professional/the-complete-guide-to-the-washington-football-teams-quarterback-situation/article_cd50c593-4896-58c6-980b-5dffb18c6c61.html

[oraphus]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Prediction:

Washington seems likely to keep Heinicke and Allen. Given Allen's injury, Heinicke projects as the No. 2 on the 2021 roster, with Allen the No. 3 - inactive on game days as he works towards a return.

That makes it likely Washington will snag a quarterback through either free agency or a trade.

Any of these options are plausible, but I'll put my chips on two in particular - Matt Stafford, given how much football he has left and his history of playing through tough injuries, and Tyrod Taylor, who would be a value play here, allowing Washington to continue to build the nucleus of a perennial contender.

 

That also leaves room for a late-round draft pick or undrafted player to join the Football Team as a practice squad quarterback in 2021.

 

https://richmond.com/sports/professional/the-complete-guide-to-the-washington-football-teams-quarterback-situation/article_cd50c593-4896-58c6-980b-5dffb18c6c61.html

Tyrod Taylor sucks for anything other than a backup role... we might as well go with Allen as starter then.

[Skinsinparadise]

It’s time for the San Francisco 49ers to think about moving on from quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo. Kyle Shanahan is one of the best offensive minds in the game — that's widely accepted — and the miracles he has worked despite his quarterback situations over the years speak for themselves. Throughout his coaching career, Shanahan has had a top-end quarterback effectively once, and he produced an MVP-caliber season from Matt Ryan off the back of it.

Garoppolo may be the next best passer Shanahan has coached, but the limitations of the man who was supposed to be the answer in San Francisco are becoming obvious, not least of which is his injury history.

The old adage goes that the best ability a player can have is availability, and Garoppolo is coming up short there. He has played a full 16-game schedule just once in his NFL career, and while the New England seasons can be somewhat ignored on the basis he wasn’t the starter, it’s notable that even in relief of an injured Tom Brady, Garoppolo picked up an injury himself and lost out on an opportunity to start more games over Jacoby Brissett.

Football is a violent game, and injuries are inevitable. But it’s also worth noting Garoppolo has sustained non-contact injuries, which would cast further doubt over his durability. For his injury history alone, the 49ers should be thinking about alternatives.

Then, we come to his play when he has been healthy. And, unfortunately, that isn’t likely to change any conclusion you have come to based on his injury history.

Garoppolo’s best play came in the few games he started in 2017 after being traded to the 49ers, which is also what earned him a monster contract extension that made him the game’s highest-paid quarterback at the time of signing. He showed encouraging flashes in New England, and injuries had yet to become a pattern, so when the 49ers saw him post an 86.6 overall PFF grade over the final six weeks of the 2017 season fresh off the plane from New England, it made sense to them to believe that greater things were to follow.

Critically, however, the confidence San Francisco had in that was translated into up-front guaranteed money, which ate up an abundance of salary-cap space but is now paying off in terms of flexibility a few years later.

That 86.6 PFF grade is the high watermark for Garoppolo's career. In his three seasons since, he has one complete year — a campaign in which he posted a 77.3 grade that resulted in a Super Bowl berth. Yet, he came up just short against Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs. I say he came up just short despite it being a team game because Garoppolo personally missed multiple key plays that were the difference in the game, yet the narrative gravitated toward Shanahan coming up empty again on the biggest stage. In the other two seasons, Garoppolo played just 503 combined snaps while earning a middling PFF grade in the 60s.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-san-francisco-49ers-move-on-jimmy-garoppolo-kyle-shanahan

[Chris 44]

Not heard much on how Allen is doing coming back from the injury. If the team is not sure on when he will be 100% healthy this will have an effect on the overall QB direction. Just food for thought.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[HigSkin]

19 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Not heard much on how Allen is doing coming back from the injury. If the team is not sure on when he will be 100% healthy this will have an effect on the overall QB direction. Just food for thought.

He's supposed to be back by training camp but as mentioned in the Dispatch above he's likely #3 anyway.

[actorguy1]

Walking that fine line between "Spend whatever it takes to upgrade this team now to take advantage of the 2-3 year window" vs "Build it over multiple seasons into a perennial powerhouse ala Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New England and Seattle." I think the latter has always been Rivera's plan. Just because the DL has advanced the rebuild quicker than expected, it must be tempered by the long term plan. Count me as continuing mining for diamonds with mid-tier free agents (including QB) while using all those draft picks to improve at the same time. Find a QB who will contribute to wins but not be the main reason for winning while improving as many other positions as possible. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I know Stafford is the nonpragmatic and uncool option with some.  But the more I think about it, I want this dude to hit the trade market.  If the asking price is outrageous then don't pull the trigger.    All the other veteran options are mostly yawn to me.     Matt Ryan will cost about 13 million more a year against the cap than Stafford and is 3 years older.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

I don't think we're really in the Stafford situation. I can see him going to the Colts a lot more than us. The only QB I can see them getting more than Stafford is Wentz, but Philly just fired a HC for Wentz so I think he's staying. And I think Reich is going to solidify that QB position given how close they are. 

[HigSkin]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know Stafford is the nonpragmatic and uncool option with some.  But the more I think about it, I want this dude to hit the trade market.  If the asking price is outrageous then don't pull the trigger.    All the other veteran options are mostly yawn to me.     Matt Ryan will cost about 13 million more a year against the cap than Stafford and is 3 years older.  

 

 

 

 

Yea, there was a report back in mid December by a reporter that said his 'birdies' are telling him he's likely to be moved.  A couple things cited but the biggest one is him not wanting to be part of a rebuild.  My preference to everyone out there thru trade is Stafford.  Guy can play.  He is prone to those occassional bone headed interceptions.  Lol

[redskins4ever28]

Stafford is the only reason Detroit was t winless for the past couple years. He’s criminally underrated 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know Stafford is the nonpragmatic and uncool option with some.  But the more I think about it, I want this dude to hit the trade market.  If the asking price is outrageous then don't pull the trigger.    All the other veteran options are mostly yawn to me.     Matt Ryan will cost about 13 million more a year against the cap than Stafford and is 3 years older.  

 

 

 

 

I would seriously dislike a move for Ryan. Stafford I could live with, he can play, and is still relatively ‘young’ by comparison. The compensation clearly is a factor, the greater worry being he’s taken some damage over the years. But depending on factors, there are worse moves we could make. 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know Stafford is the nonpragmatic and uncool option with some.  But the more I think about it, I want this dude to hit the trade market.  If the asking price is outrageous then don't pull the trigger.    All the other veteran options are mostly yawn to me.     Matt Ryan will cost about 13 million more a year against the cap than Stafford and is 3 years older.  

 

 

 

 

On the surface, I’m not sure of the fit with a Turner/Rivera offense. Seems to be more of a Bruce Arians type QB. Could be some stylistic differences. 
 

Your thoughts? 

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

On the surface, I’m not sure of the fit with a Turner/Rivera offense. Seems to be more of a Bruce Arians type QB. Could be some stylistic differences. 
 

Your thoughts? 

Mariotta formerly of Tennessee might the a fit who is now in Oakland.

[El Mexican]

No way Stafford lands here. He wants to win now.

Dude is a AAA quality QB because he has been surrounded by a very competent WR corps with Detroit

and they play inside a dome. His numbers are directly tied to those factors.

 

We would need much better WRs to make the guy even turn his head this way.

Edited January 13, 2021 by El Mexican

[Commander Wolffe]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

On the surface, I’m not sure of the fit with a Turner/Rivera offense. Seems to be more of a Bruce Arians type QB. Could be some stylistic differences. 
 

Your thoughts? 

 

I think this was my biggest takeaway from the Heinicke experience. The ball was being thrown downfield effectively.  Those 10-20 yard chunk plays. I thought our offense was more dink and dunk but ultimately it appears that was the style of Qb we had at the time.

 

With timing and anticipation Heinicke proved that in this system we can be more then dink and dunk. It seems he's the most comfortable reading through his progressions while the other Qbs would hang on to their first read and then either check down or throw late somewhere else. The rhythm or processing speed of which he operates it seems as if he can hit that third read and it's still on time. I also noticed his check downs where exactly that as he used them very late when all options were accounted for. This resulted in less YAC for Mckissick but I like his understanding of down and distance.

 

This makes me think Stafford would be excellent; although he is less mobile he can still move around the pocket and run for a few first downs a game. It would be cool to see Stafford, a bellcow back(Harris) and perhaps a Kadarius Toney on this team added to our current weapons.

Edited January 13, 2021 by SkinsFootball

[Warhead36]

46 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

No way Stafford lands here. He wants to win now.

Dude is a AAA quality QB because he has been surrounded by a very competent WR corps with Detroit

and they play inside a dome. His numbers are directly tied to those factors.

 

We would need much better WRs to make the guy even turn his head this way.

Bring in Stafford and sign a WR like Samuel or Davis and we absolutely can contend.

[joeken24]

Stafford hasn't been durable. I'm satisfied with our current QBs with maybe a reasonably price vet to compete. Who that is is beyond me. None really impress other than Rivers but he can be maddening sometimes. There is not one QB coming out in the draft I'm impressed with either. So drafting one high is a waste IMO. Ron likes veterans (and so do I) and does not have time to be guessing about a rookie prospect. You picked up Montez and he has a year under his belt in this system. Ron has spoken highly of him. I'm cool with them seeing where it takes them for another years. But all in all, I'm good with Kyle and Taylor because they run the offense. I'm done with names; FA that may or may not work out here because they don't buy in. If they aren't young, hungry and on the cusp of being great, I don't want them in the new and improved locker room. And as I look on the list of FA, I don't see one that is going to come in and integrate themselves into the culture. Too many been there done that types IMO.

**** Dak btw.     

[El Mexican]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Bring in Stafford and sign a WR like Samuel or Davis and we absolutely can contend.

 

Yes, that would be huge.

But getting a good combo like that seems like a reach when there are some gapping holes at MLB, TE and safety.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

On the surface, I’m not sure of the fit with a Turner/Rivera offense. Seems to be more of a Bruce Arians type QB. Could be some stylistic differences. 
 

Your thoughts? 

 

Stafford isn't fast but he's not a stationary type of Qb, he scrambles in the pocket and makes off platform throws.  He does have a rocket of an arm, can throw a really good deep ball but I don't think that works against him.   If Scott has some of his Dad in him the deep ball would be a plus, too.  Norv loved going long.    Some might think why didn't they do it with Haskins, then?  My guess is two reasons:  A.  Haskins has a strong arm but doesn't throw a good deep ball.   B.  Protection wasnt as good with Haskins, I presume because he did a poor job setting protections -- and that comes in to play more with 7 step type of throws.  Haskins niche was throwing in the flat. 

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick ironically would also be an example of a Qb who isn't fast yet has some elusiveness in the pocket.  

 

A guy like Philip Rivers in theory may not work if they are looking for some mobility.  Yet, Rivera specifically citied Rivers as an example of how the offense can adapt to whomever is under center.

 

2 hours ago, El Mexican said:

No way Stafford lands here. He wants to win now.

Dude is a AAA quality QB because he has been surrounded by a very competent WR corps with Detroit

and they play inside a dome. His numbers are directly tied to those factors.

 

We would need much better WRs to make the guy even turn his head this way.

 

We got plenty of cap room to do it.  FA is loaded with top heavy Wrs unlike last year.  Draft is loaded, too.  It's the perfect storm to load up on WR. 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie referred to Wentz as "an asset" in his presser this week. No doubt the Eagles will look to deal his contract...not sure they'd trade him in the division and not sure if we'd even want him as he was brutal this year. But he could be available and I'm sure he would be for the right price. In fact, if the Eagles want to deal him bad enough maybe theyd take less just to unload him?

Sam Darnold is an interesting name...if the Jets want to move him would they take pick #19 straight up for him? Would we do that?

Fitzpatrick is a great option if we like Heinicke/Allen and find a kid in the draft or if we like Montez. I am convinced Fitzmagic could take us far if we gave him the keys to the bus and added talent throughout the roster. He would come in ready to roll and I could see RR loving a grpup of Fitz,Heinicke/Allen...

I would LOVE to see this group for a year or two. 

 

 

[skinzplay]

No to Ryan, Kitzpatrick, Stafford and Rivers. None of those QBs will do any better than the two viable in-house options we have now. Not sold on Tyrod as an option, either. The only intriguing option to me is Mariota, a guy who has never had quality coaching since he entered the league, and still doesn't have it. I think he's a change of scenery (and linkage with real coaching) away from demonstrating his real potential. Zampese might be drooling at the prospect of getting his hands on him.

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

No to Ryan, Kitzpatrick, Stafford and Rivers. None of those QBs will do any better than the two viable in-house options we have now.

Okay, I'm sorry, but there's no way you can believe Stafford wouldn't be a monumental upgrade

[skinzplay]

I think Stafford is a damn good QB purgatoried to a losing situation. I just wouldn't want to sacrifice any draft capital or significant cap space on him because it would prevent us from continuing to build the right way.