Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Yep, that’s similar to me. Spending resource, either draft capital, and/or reasonable cap space to generate competition with a view to improving what we have at QB.

 

I see Lance as the future, with Heinecke and Allen battling it out for 2021 and maybe even 2022. But ... we are not guaranteed that Lance falls ... so unless we are happy with Heinecke/ALlen battling out for a starting role, we should probably go get another QB.

 

But who knows what this FO is thinking. Maybe they already have a couple guys that are R2-4 players that they are comfortable grabbing to compete. Who knows.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I see Lance as the future, with Heinecke and Allen battling it out for 2021 and maybe even 2022. But ... we are not guaranteed that Lance falls ... so unless we are happy with Heinecke/ALlen battling out for a starting role, we should probably go get another QB.

 

But who knows what this FO is thinking. Maybe they already have a couple guys that are R2-4 players that they are comfortable grabbing to compete. Who knows.

Yep, a camp battle of Heinicke and Allen for the #1-2 berths isn’t going to cut it. Got to be an added ingredient to the mix. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Yep, a camp battle of Heinicke and Allen for the #1-2 berths isn’t going to cut it. Got to be an added ingredient to the mix. 

 

Mariota + Heinecke + Allen ... cut whoever doesn't make the camp battle. If Lance falls to you, then you consider drafting Lance. But I presume the FO bringing in Mariota would signal they think they can kick the tires there and do it on a cheaper deal. After all, Mariota was the Trey Lance (Or Justin FIelds) of the 2015 draft. He has the pedigree.

 

And in that case, maybe you sign Mariota to battle it out with those two. Hell be fairly cheap with upside from him and the other 2. Maybe kick the cans on a mid-rounder like Mond if you want, and keep a 3rd QB as a rookie and cut Allen/Heinecke.

 

It would free up #19 to go in really any direction. And it doesn't cost FA $$ capital that Stafford or Ryan would cost which would prevent other big FA signings.

 

Something like, sign Mariota, Curtis Samuel, Lavante David, Brandon SCherff ... draft an OT at 19 ... WR in Round 2 ... TE in Round 3 .. LB in ROund 4 ... kick the tires on someone at QB in Round 5 ... and you continue ot build up the strength of the surrounding roster without sacrificing excessive cap or draft picks at QB, while also setting yourself up to get a solid ROI at QB.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Yep, a camp battle of Heinicke and Allen for the #1-2 berths isn’t going to cut it. Got to be an added ingredient to the mix. 

Montez, obviously.

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Mariota + Heinecke + Allen ... cut whoever doesn't make the camp battle. If Lance falls to you, then you consider drafting Lance. But I presume the FO bringing in Mariota would signal they think they can kick the tires there and do it on a cheaper deal. After all, Mariota was the Trey Lance (Or Justin FIelds) of the 2015 draft. He has the pedigree.

 

And in that case, maybe you sign Mariota to battle it out with those two. Hell be fairly cheap with upside from him and the other 2. Maybe kick the cans on a mid-rounder like Mond if you want, and keep a 3rd QB as a rookie and cut Allen/Heinecke.

 

It would free up #19 to go in really any direction. And it doesn't cost FA $$ capital that Stafford or Ryan would cost which would prevent other big FA signings.

 

Something like, sign Mariota, Curtis Samuel, Lavante David, Brandon SCherff ... draft an OT at 19 ... WR in Round 2 ... TE in Round 3 .. LB in ROund 4 ... kick the tires on someone at QB in Round 5 ... and you continue ot build up the strength of the surrounding roster without sacrificing excessive cap or draft picks at QB, while also setting yourself up to get a solid ROI at QB.

Where do you see the similarities between Fields, Lance and Mariota? I honestly don’t see any of them even remotely similarly as prospects.

[wit33]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Where do you see the similarities between Fields, Lance and Mariota? I honestly don’t see any of them even remotely similarly as prospects.

 
Obviously you’re choosing to miss the fastball right down the plate that is they all can run. We the average fan have a long grueling road to be able to differentiate one running QB from another. Be kind.

Edited January 12, 2021 by wit33

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Montez, obviously.

Not a good enough added ingredient.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 
Obviously you’re choosing to miss the fastball right down the plate that is they all can run. We the average fan have a long grueling road to be able to differentiate one running QB from another. Be kind.

JMSkins is real football savvy...

 

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Not a good enough added ingredient.

 

Yes he is. Did you see his eyes when he thought he was going in? And the look on his face when Scherff was talking to him?

 

I imagine the convo was:

 

SM: Hey Brandon, I think I got this. Do you think I got this?

 

BS: I doubt it, but don’t be an idiot and make a stupid mistake and cost us the game or I’ll be having a real convo with you in the locker room.

 

SM: *Deer in Headlights*

[KillBill26]

6 hours ago, Destino said:

And all of them will be off the board by the time we pick at 19.  
 

im happy for the playoff appearance, but man this would have been a good year to be bad.  

The silver lining of dropping 10 spots in the draft after we beat Philly (aside from division title, playoff experience etc) is that extra game allowed us to see the potential in TH.  TH and 19th pick at other position may put us on a better path than QB at 9th.

 

But to your point, yes, it was a good year to be terrible.

[Warhead36]

I mean there is talent available at every pick in every round every year. Lamar Jackson was taken 32nd.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Where do you see the similarities between Fields, Lance and Mariota? I honestly don’t see any of them even remotely similarly as prospects.

I mean from the pedigree standpoint. Not player comp. What I mean is Mariota was a sure fire Top 3 pick not that long ago, so he has pedigree. That’s really the only comp I was making haha

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

JMSkins is real football savvy...

 

you give me too Much credit lol

[Skinsinparadise]

Interesting how similar the narrative is around the Colts

 

 

 

 

Few teams enter 2021 with a bigger question at quarterback than the Indianapolis Colts. 

Perhaps no club has a more attractive opening under center than the Indianapolis Colts.

And, arguably, no front office has a more pivotal decision to make regarding the immediate future of the organization than the brass of ... the Indianapolis Colts. 

It should be an intriguing offseason for a franchise that arguably has the richest lineage of passers in the history of the NFL – Johnny Unitas, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck ... not to mention some vocal Bert Jones truthers. Will a new name join those ranks? Will a familiar one remain?

We don't know who will be taking the first snap for Indy nine months from now, but here are nine names to consider:

 

Philip Rivers

He was in his feelings Saturday, dealing with the aftermath of a crushing playoff loss to the Bills in which Rivers played quite well but missed just enough crucial throws to cost the Colts in a 27-24 heartbreaker. The 39-year-old with the wonky throwing motion had an uneven yet impressive inaugural season in Indianapolis, though it could well be his last with his one-year, $25 million contract set to expire. Rivers needs surgery on his foot, already has his next job lined up – head football coach at St. Michael Catholic High School in Fairhope, Alabama – and was often replaced by backup Jacoby Brissett (also headed for free agency) when a QB sneak or Hail Mary was required.

Still, an emotional Rivers gave little indication Saturday afternoon that he's a man on the verge of walking. He admitted his faith will guide his next move, but if the Colts are interested in re-upping, it was obvious he very much enjoyed playing for them after spending 16 years with the Chargers.

“It’s a really neat team. I think under these circumstances,” Rivers said, “I know personally, for me, to develop the type of bond and camaraderie that we had, it was pretty special for sure."

 

“As I sit here right now, yes, I want Philip Rivers to be my starting quarterback next year,” Reich said Sunday.

But the caveat wasn't far behind, the coach admitting everything "could change."

“I think we both know how we feel about each other and about the year that he had, but we also know this business is what it is,” Reich added. “We know the natural tendency is to say, this is great stuff, let’s keep this rolling, and that’s how we feel, and I hope that’s how he feels. But you have to digest, you have to pull away to get perspective, you have to think about the whole thing.

"We’ll have to see, but it’s too early to tell right now.”

Matthew Stafford

The Detroit Lions' longtime bomber has two years remaining on his deal and would be owed about $43 million – reasonable by the current quarterback salary scale. Stafford turns 33 next month, but his arm talent remains among the league's elite. Current and former teammates tend to swear by his personality and toughness. On the downside, he has taken a lot of abuse over the years and, from a team perspective, he's never led Detroit to a playoff win in 12 seasons – and now the Lions are in the midst of another regime change, which may or may not spell the end of the former No. 1 pick's tenure. 

Stafford isn't the hand-in-glove fit that Wentz might be, but he is a more realistic trade option financially – the Lions would take a $19 million hit for moving him. And Stafford would sustain a veteran presence for a Colts roster that's built to win now.

 

Matt Ryan

The Atlanta quarterback's name has been floated as a possibility – maybe because the 2016 MVP's experience and surgical style would probably fit well in the Circle City. But realistically, Ryan's contract – it runs through 2023 – is even more unwieldy than Wentz's and would cost the Falcons, who are also searching for their next coach and GM, more than $40 million to unload in a swap. And given Ryan is nearly three years older than Stafford? Seems like the worst of all worlds given the Colts' other available avenues.

Andy Dalton

The 33-year-old may not have quite the résumé or physical gifts of more acclaimed passers in the league. But the three-time Pro Bowler is steady, led the Cincinnati Bengals to five straight playoff berths – talk about a résumé bullet – and, best of all, is a free agent after helping keep the Dallas Cowboys afloat in 2020 in the wake of Dak Prescott's broken leg. And Ballard has to like the idea of giving up nothing more than a mid-tier contract while searching for a longer-term solution to the position on a parallel track.

Mac Jones

Ballard could always turn to the draft to fill the position. Given the Colts will pick 21st in the first round this year, Jones seems like the most realistic target – though a trade up wouldn't be out of the question if a prospect like BYU's Zach Wilson, Ohio State's Justin Fields or North Dakota State's Trey Lance fell within range.

Still, Jones, who will be 23 in September, seems logical given he comes from an Alabama program that resembles an NFL team in some ways and is used to being a distributor rather than the center of attention. A guy who completed 77% of his passes in 2020 could theoretically step right into an offense built to run the rock while supplementing a staunch defense with a ball-control approach.

(And, yes, his dismantling of Ohio State's defense in Monday's national championship game shows he's not just a game manager.)

 

Sam Darnold

The New York Jets drafted him third overall in 2018, using a pick acquired from Ballard – who thought then that Andrew Luck would be Indianapolis' starter for the long term. But now the Jets could opt to reset the position with the No. 2 pick in 2021, meaning Darnold would be available with at least two years of contractual control. He was widely viewed as the best QB prospect on the board when he came out of USC but has been plagued by the turmoil and talent gap that so often plagues the Jets ... and his own tendency to press. He could be a relatively low-cost, high-ceiling reclamation project in a place where he could initially reboot as a role player.

 

[Commander -JB-]

ALWAYS take BPA & always stockpile draft picks so even if you make a trade up you still have at least 7 picks in the draft.  Never take a QB in the first round unless he’s absolutely can’t miss and everybody in the room agrees he’s must take player.  Way too many terrible QB’s drafted in first round over the years.  Teams always panic and reach.  Also, pass on WR in first round as well.  More often than not you’re drafting a bust that high.  You can always grab a Terry McLaurin in the 3rd round or a DK Metcalf in the 2nd.  Lastly, draft CB’s!  At least two each draft!  Need plenty of depth in the secondary with the amount of injuries they sustain and the amount of guys you need on the field at all times.

[Stefanskins]

10 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agreed.

 

Everyone is clamming for us to maximise this ‘window of opportunity’ and now we are handing the keys to a guy with about 70 career completions in the pro game.

 

He did play great though, I’ll grant him that.

Could he be worse than the last 30 years?...do not let this dude leave...fair competition and let’s see...but don’t let him go

[CjSuAvE22]

I have a bad feeling we are giving up 4 first rounders and 2 2nds for Deshaun Watson maybe more...

[Stefanskins]

48 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

I have a bad feeling we are giving up 4 first rounders and 2 2nds for Deshaun Watson maybe more...

I wouldn’t do it...I’d save money for the homegrown...but I definitely trust Ron’s judgement over mine

[Stefanskins]

10 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

I agree! I don't want to throw a bunch of picks to the Lions for Stafford given what we saw in Heinicke on Saturday.  Why not offer him a really reasonable three year contract, make him prove it, and then continue to build up our LB, S, TE, and WR positions.  If we dump a bunch of money into a Matt Stafford, that will really hamper our ability to keep our own guys (like the D-Line).  Heinicke is serviceable at the very least and a gamer at his best.  If he stinks it up next year, then we are in good position to have a good selection of QBs to pick from in the following draft and we won't have to give up a bunch of capital to do it.  

I’d love to be in position to get Howell after next season...but, baring the injury thing, I truly believe hienicke/Allen/cheap veteran/build THIS team is the way to go...I’ve been drinking but from what I’ve seen a either Allen/hienicke/tyrod-esque combo gets us to 10 wins playoffs/division champs...all in on the TEAM...that’s culture 

[Stefanskins]

9 hours ago, KDawg said:

JMSkins is real football savvy...

 

 

Yes he is. Did you see his eyes when he thought he was going in? And the look on his face when Scherff was talking to him?

 

I imagine the convo was:

 

SM: Hey Brandon, I think I got this. Do you think I got this?

 

BS: I doubt it, but don’t be an idiot and make a stupid mistake and cost us the game or I’ll be having a real convo with you in the locker room.

 

SM: *Deer in Headlights*

I liked that guys college break down of Montez...seemed to have the same kinda skill set (to a lesser degree) of hienicke...goes through his progressions, good pocket awareness, good at re-establishing...maybe a better arm...nice athleticism...not  Houdini heinicke...but something there...looked bigger...

[Est.1974]

Bottom line is that we must strive to improve. Much like we are seeing in the front office thread, it’s encouraging that Rivera isn’t sitting on his hands thinking we’ve made it. I expect we will see the same at QB. Got to keep pushing forward in areas we know we need to improve.

[Skinsinparadise]

Finlay was just asked about QBs.  Issue with Heinicke is doubts that he can he survive physically a 16 game season.  I recall one beat guy, can't recall now who and maybe it was Finlay who said a team source told him they are worried about Heinicke from a durability stand point.   He thinks they are seriously shopping for a QB this off season. 

 

Finlay isn't sure that Alex walks away and if so it puts the WFT in a tough spot.  They can ramp off his contract this season but does it feel cruel to release him but then he goes its a bottom line business. 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

7 hours ago, -JB- said:

ALWAYS take BPA & always stockpile draft picks so even if you make a trade up you still have at least 7 picks in the draft.  Never take a QB in the first round unless he’s absolutely can’t miss and everybody in the room agrees he’s must take player.  Way too many terrible QB’s drafted in first round over the years.  Teams always panic and reach.  Also, pass on WR in first round as well.  More often than not you’re drafting a bust that high.  You can always grab a Terry McLaurin in the 3rd round or a DK Metcalf in the 2nd.  Lastly, draft CB’s!  At least two each draft!  Need plenty of depth in the secondary with the amount of injuries they sustain and the amount of guys you need on the field at all times.

Great post! Words to live by. One caveat for me with BPA- Unless you have 12 good WR's on your roster and the BPA is a WR, then take the next BPA.

I always felt if a draft was richest in one position you should effort to take advantage and a rounded draft has at least one DB, DL, LB, OL, and skill position but it doesn't always fall that way.

 

[kingdaddy]

14 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

The silver lining of dropping 10 spots in the draft after we beat Philly (aside from division title, playoff experience etc) is that extra game allowed us to see the potential in TH.  TH and 19th pick at other position may put us on a better path than QB at 9th.

 

But to your point, yes, it was a good year to be terrible.

I never looked at it from this perspective and believe you may have made an excellent point. What if Heinicke goes on to win us a Super Bowl, all because he HAD to play in our playoff game? That would be sweet. 

[DWinzit]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Finlay was just asked about QBs.  Issue with Heinicke is doubts that he can he survive physically a 16 game season.  I recall one beat guy, can't recall now who and maybe it was Finlay who said a team source told him they are worried about Heinicke from a durability stand point.   He thinks they are seriously shopping for a QB this off season. 

 

Finlay isn't sure that Alex walks away and if so it puts the WFT in a tough spot.  They can ramp off his contract this season but does it feel cruel to release him but then he goes its a bottom line business. 

 

If they are seriously shopping for a QB this off season that means not only are they worried about Heinicke's health but they aren't really considering Allen. Otherwise you would have both of them and then can see what drops to you in the draft.

 

Alex, time to think coaching and family time.

Edited January 13, 2021 by DWinzit

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

If they are seriously shopping for a QB this off season that means not only are they worried about Heinicke's health but they aren't really considering Allen. Otherwise you would have both of them and then can see what drops to you in the draft.

 

Alex, time to think coaching and family time.

I’m nervous we’re going to do something dumb at QB.

[DWinzit]

Just now, KDawg said:

I’m nervous we’re going to do something dumb at QB.

Again.

It's a big concern for me as well!

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Finlay was just asked about QBs.  Issue with Heinicke is doubts that he can he survive physically a 16 game season.  I recall one beat guy, can't recall now who and maybe it was Finlay who said a team source told him they are worried about Heinicke from a durability stand point.   He thinks they are seriously shopping for a QB this off season. 

 

Finlay isn't sure that Alex walks away and if so it puts the WFT in a tough spot.  They can ramp off his contract this season but does it feel cruel to release him but then he goes its a bottom line business. 

 

Interesting. I've been hearing this particulaly from Sheehan and Galdi before the Heinicke stardom. I have to sit and question what we're willing to give up. Are we looking at another Brunell/McNabb/Smith trade? It wouldn't surprise me because we've done it 3 times before and we can say that 2 of those 3 times led us to the playoffs (very low bar). But we traded 3rd rounders for those QBs (plus some extra including Fuller for Smith). Is that enough to get one of the top guys, or is there somebody else we'd be considering. 

 

On that next point, I wonder what Ron and the FO thinks about the second tier of QBs available this offseason. There may be Dak/Deshawn/Matt R/Matt S, and we know about the guys in the draft, but what about guys like Brissett, Tribusky, Mullins, Dobbs, Beathard, etc. Those guys can be gotten for next to nothing. Heck, there may even be another guy who's a backup that say Turner scouted that we're interested in trading for like we did with Allen (Brett Rypien, Mason Rudolph, Mariota, Driskel, Stidham, Minshew, etc) or even Darnold who has been mentioned here before. 

 

I think this is an important question because while Ron has glowingly praised Allen (saying we could have won the division with him) he hasn't said that same thing for Heinicke and he cut Heinicke in favor of Allen in Carolina and traded for Allen when he could have signed Heinicke for nothing. All this leads me to believe that this is Allen's job to lose right now, but the same questions we have about Heinicke's durablility are there for Allen as well.