Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Stefanskins]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

Don't see Fins trading Tua. That would be dumb. 

The mock on Tankathon is as follows: 

 

Player Rankings updated about 13 hours ago | Draft Order updated after every game

Team needs are factored into the mock.

1

Trevor Lawrence

QB | Clemson

6'6"

220 lbs

2

Zach Wilson

QB | BYU

6'3"

210 lbs

3

Devonta Smith

WR | Alabama

6'1"

175 lbs

4

Justin Fields

QB | Ohio State

6'3"

228 lbs

5

Penei Sewell

OT | Oregon

6'6"

325 lbs

6

Ja'Marr Chase

WR | LSU

6'1"

200 lbs

7

Micah Parsons

OLB/ILB | Penn State

6'3"

244 lbs

8

Trey Lance

QB | North Dakota State

6'4"

226 lbs

9

Patrick Surtain II

CB | Alabama

6'2"

203 lbs

10

Caleb Farley

CB | Virginia Tech

6'2"

207 lbs

11

Gregory Rousseau

EDGE | Miami

6'6"

251 lbs

12

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah

OLB | Notre Dame

6'2"

216 lbs

13

Rashawn Slater

OT | Northwestern

6'3"

305 lbs

14

Kwity Paye

EDGE | Michigan

6'4"

272 lbs

15

Mac Jones

QB | Alabama

6'2"

214 lbs

16

Kyle Pitts

TE | Florida

6'6"

239 lbs

17

Jaycee Horn

CB | South Carolina

6'1"

200 lbs

18

Wyatt Davis

IOL | Ohio State

6'4"

313 lbs

19

Christian Darrisaw

OT | Virginia Tech

6'5"

313 lbs

I'll take a starting OT...a good line makes everyone better...

[JamesMadisonSkins]

24 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

I'll take a starting OT...a good line makes everyone better...

 

I have to think there's a big time solution brewing at QB. Either a free agent acquisition or a target in the first round of the draft. BUT, big but, if this team is kicking QB can down the road another year, then yes, I absolutely take this off-season to strengthen the crap out of the supporting cast. And LT is massively part of that equation.

 

Lucas has 1 more year on his deal. He was a godsend this year, and might legitimately be our long term solution at LT. But Moses is entering his final year as well, and the two of them are backed up by Saahdiq Charles, who we've yet to really see much from although he has huge upside.

 

OT has to be a target in the draft, even if it's in the 2nd or 3rd or even 4th rounds.

 

I would advocate for drafting a Guard and a Tackle this year purely out of best practice, even though the OL isn't a perceived "issue" in the immediate sense. But long-term, it's smart to re-invest, particularly at OT.

[Commander -JB-]

If you drafted a QB and he looked as good as Heinicke looked in that playoff game everybody would be ecstatic.  Which leads me to my next question.  Why are you looking right past Heinicke?

Edited January 12, 2021 by -JB-

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I have to think there's a big time solution brewing at QB. Either a free agent acquisition or a target in the first round of the draft.

Agreed. Ron’s #1 priority and I can’t see us messing around. Interestingly the deal for Smith in 2018 was agreed in ‘principle’ with KC in January, so an early move is possible, once he gets his FO personnel lined up perhaps. First move for them, get a QB.

[HigSkin]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agreed. Ron’s #1 priority and I can’t see us messing around. Interestingly the deal for Smith in 2018 was agreed in ‘principle’ with KC in January, so an early move is possible, once he gets his FO personnel lined up perhaps. First move for them, get a QB.

 

I can't say why but I just get the same feeling too and think it's a vet like Ryan.  I also believe they've been working on this before the season ended.  Most of the speculation sends him to SF, Bears, Indianapolis or Patriots.  I think WFT should be in that speculation because all but the Pats are win now with good defenses.

Edited January 12, 2021 by HigSkin

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agreed. Ron’s #1 priority and I can’t see us messing around. Interestingly the deal for Smith in 2018 was agreed in ‘principle’ with KC in January, so an early move is possible, once he gets his FO personnel lined up perhaps. First move for them, get a QB.

 

Yup. And whatever that decision is will have ripple-effects throughout the rest of the off-season.

 

Spend big on a FA QB = likely not spending big elsewhere

Trading a 2nd or 3rd for an upside/young QB (Darnold?) = lower cost + much more aggressive in FA to get supporting cast

Spend middling on a FA QB (Mariota, Winston) ... well then you still have some long-term questions that would not necessarily eliminate having to draft a QB.

 

Either way, put me down for a stud LT at #19 if one presents itself. Move Lucas to swing Tackle, have Charles backup at LG and/OT ... set yourself up for long-term success even though Lucas and Moses are entering their final year.

[Destino]

1 hour ago, ananoman said:

OTOH no playoff appearance then no Heinicke in the picture

I’m glad he’s in the picture, but doubt strongly that he’s a reliable starting QB for this team. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Colts beat guy, funny to hear it from another team's perspective, similar problem

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

7 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agreed. Ron’s #1 priority and I can’t see us messing around. Interestingly the deal for Smith in 2018 was agreed in ‘principle’ with KC in January, so an early move is possible, once he gets his FO personnel lined up perhaps. First move for them, get a QB.

THat's what I don't get. If I had the time I would look for some evidence to support this but it seems like there have been previous cases where there was a qb who shined late in the season and fans were excited about them but that qb was not given an opportunity the next season. We saw it in 2017 with SF and Beathard (no wins but good stats, then the next year with Mullins. Those two have gotten a lot of play as my favorte names to bring up here But its also happened with Tyrod Taylor in Buffalo and in LA, Matt Barkley in Chicago, in Cincy with AJ McCarron, in Minnesota with Case Keenum, in Philly with Kevin Kolb. Those are some names that I kinda remember a buzz about but I need to look into PFR to see if these are right names and dates. 

 

But there are a lot of reasons for this, mainly because coaches sometimes think "if I could do X with a no name QB like Case Keenum, imagine what I could do with a Kirk Cousins". It doesn't matter that Case hasn't put up those numbers again, he was probably in the perfect environment for himself and wasn't given a chance to keep it going. And when they overpaid for Cousins, the priced themselves out of other areas, not to mention burned some chemistry on the team and wound up losing Diggs. 

 

That said, if say Wilson were to drop the way Aaron Rodgers dropped in 2005. If he's there at 19, we pick him and let the chips fall where they may. But I don't see the point of going after a Stafford/Ryan. I could possibly get behind a Dak or Deshaun but even those are going to be Kirk type deals for QBs. I just wish we could spend that type of money on signing our own guys. 

[KDawg]

37 minutes ago, -JB- said:

If you drafted a QB and he looked as good as Heinicke looked in that playoff game everybody would be ecstatic.  Which leads me to my next question.  Why are you looking right past Heinicke?

This. Big time. 
 

I understand hedging bets on the unproven journeyman who was a backup in the XFL and trying to find some insurance/if a great option falls in your lap not passing.

 

But I don’t understand just looking passed him.

[Skinsinparadise]

I like Heinicke but his size/durability concerns me.  So my gut right now is at a minimum you got to hedge your bets. 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

Both TH (RFA) and Allen (ERFA) are under control of the WFT.  I still expect them to be given contract.  Maybe not guaranteed ones but they'll be signed especially Allen.  They traded for him and he was doing pretty good before his injury.  

[Commander -JB-]

 

 

 

 

John Keim

 

@john_keim

not really. you don't just go from being out of the league 2 years to playing 5 quarters to thinking he's the answer. durability a major concern. he'll compete for a spot. go from there. but, no, they need to find a legit solution.

Kurt Warner was in the Arena league.  Rich Gannon was a journeyman riding the pine for years until he was 34 and took off with Raiders.  Doug Flutie spent his prime on the sidelines because they said he was too small. I can keep going on and on.

Edited January 12, 2021 by -JB-

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

The Colts have boat-loads of cap-space.  I can see them trading a low-round pick for Solder (who opted out and is out of favor with the Giants) or going after Alejandro V. from the Steelers in FA.   

 

Also, they could easily resign Rivers for 1 more year, or trade their 1st for Stafford.

[Est.1974]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like Heinicke but his size/durability concerns me.  So my gut right now is at a minimum you got to hedge your bets. 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

Everyone is clamming for us to maximise this ‘window of opportunity’ and now we are handing the keys to a guy with about 70 career completions in the pro game.

 

He did play great though, I’ll grant him that.

[Commander -JB-]

34 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agreed.

 

Everyone is clamming for us to maximise this ‘window of opportunity’ and now we are handing the keys to a guy with about 70 career completions in the pro game.

 

He did play great though, I’ll grant him that.

Which is more completions (especially playoff completions) than every rookie QB that you would draft.  Here’s a list of some 1st round QB’s over the years (Jake Locker, Matt Leinart, Blaine Gabbert, Mitch Trubusky, Paxton Lynch, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, Josh Rosen, Daniel Jones, HASKINS...) Notice any trend?  

Edited January 12, 2021 by -JB-

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Which is more completions (especially playoff completions) than every rookie QB that you would draft.  Here’s a list of some 1st round QB’s over the years (Jake Locker, Matt Leinart, Blaine Gabbert, Mitch Trubusky, Paxton Lynch, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, EJ Manuel, Josh Rosen, Daniel Jones, HASKINS...) Notice any trend?  

 

How can you say the risk is higher with a guy who has been in the system and played great in a huge game vs. a rookie who has taken 0 snaps and has 0 NFL experience lmao SMH.

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agreed.

 

Everyone is clamming for us to maximise this ‘window of opportunity’ and now we are handing the keys to a guy with about 70 career completions in the pro game.

 

He did play great though, I’ll grant him that.

 

 

I am not bad at reading tea leaves as to following beat guys/leaks.  At the moment, tough to tell what they are going to do at QB.  But the sense I get now is Heinicke isn't changing their plans aside from they want to bring him to camp, too.

 

I think I am in a weird place on Heinicke.  I am totally on board with going off on the deep end that a 1.25 game sample means the dude is an above average QB.  I get that in theory that's crazy but my gut is this guy could play.  However, I do think his frame and history of injuries is a pause for concern.    So for a team looking to make a serious run, i do think it would be nuts to just ride on Heinicke and Allen even if its just based on health alone. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Commander -JB-]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

How can you say the risk is higher with a guy who has been in the system and played great in a huge game vs. a rookie who has taken 0 snaps and has 0 NFL experience lmao SMH.

Mind boggling 

[ExoDus84]

1 hour ago, -JB- said:

Why are you looking right past Heinicke?

 

I'm just as happy with his playoff performance as anyone, but one game does not a career make. The FO would be foolish not to examine every option.

 

I'm personally partial at making a run for Stafford or even Watson if it's an option, and having Kyle/Heinicke compete for the backup roles. I don't think we'll be in a position to draft any of the top prospects, but spending a 3rd or later on a developmental prospect is also a good idea.

[Commander -JB-]

7 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I'm just as happy with his playoff performance as anyone, but one game does not a career make. The FO would be foolish not to examine every option.

 

I'm personally partial at making a run for Stafford or even Watson if it's an option, and having Kyle/Heinicke compete for the backup roles. I don't think we'll be in a position to draft any of the top prospects, but spending a 3rd or later on a developmental prospect is also a good idea.

Would be such a Redskins move to trade a bunch of draft picks and spend way too much $ on a 33 year old Matt Stafford who has never even won a playoff game in his career.  

Edited January 12, 2021 by -JB-

[ExoDus84]

3 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Would be such a Redskins move to trade a bunch of draft picks and spend way too much $ on a 32 year old Matt Stafford who has never even won a playoff game in his career.  

 

To be fair, it's really hard to say the Lions FO has put a great situation around Stafford. That team has been devoid of top tier leadership for Stafford's entire career. The FO mismanagement arguably forced Calvin Johnson into an early retirement, fired a coach that took them into the playoffs for a failed experiment with Matt Patricia, and has failed to build a good defense for years.

[Commander -JB-]

Just now, ExoDus84 said:

 

To be fair, it's really hard to say the Lions FO has put a great situation around Stafford. That team has been devoid of top tier leadership for Stafford's entire career. The FO mismanagement arguably forced Calvin Johnson into an early retirement, fired a coach that took them into the playoffs for a failed experiment with Matt Patricia, and has failed to build a good defense for years.

He’s still going to be a 33 year old QB getting paid way too much money and they’d have to trade away too many precious draft picks.  Would be a HORRID move.

[Est.1974]

14 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

How can you say the risk is higher with a guy who has been in the system and played great in a huge game vs. a rookie who has taken 0 snaps and has 0 NFL experience lmao SMH.

I guess the rookie has had 0 snaps, 0 experience, but is 21 years old and just entering the league. Heinicke has less that 100 career completions at the age of 28 lmao SMH.

 

Both represent a risk to some degree.