Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, wit33 said:

My guess is Stafford will require a first round pick and will have enough leverage to demand a new deal that locks him in with his new team for 3 years. 

 

Ballard's comment gives me the vibe that the Colts are in the veteran market.  Colts very much in a similar boat to us.  Wonder if that's the competition for a good veteran if they hit the market.

Whether Washington Football Team keeps momentum depends on its QB

 

ASHBURN, Va. -- The Washington Football Team has reached this point in the past. It enters an offseason full of hope after finishing strong and reaching the postseason. What it hasn't done in the past: build on that success.

In order to finally do so, Washington must answer several questions -- none bigger than who will play quarterback in 2021 and, perhaps, beyond.

"We can get crazy better," Washington rookie defensive end Chase Young said.

 

To keep climbing, though, multiple NFC scouts and talent evaluators point to quarterback as the obvious stumbling block.

Washington has not made the postseason in consecutive years since 1990-92. The franchise has made the playoffs five times since, and in three of those years it missed a repeat appearance in the postseason by one game. In the other two, it went a combined 8-24.

Washington, which finished 7-9, remains in a rebuilding process. While it won five of its last seven games to earn the NFC East title, it also benefited from playing in a weak division. The franchise had won nine or 10 games in each of its previous five playoff seasons.

 

"We got to the playoffs, and everybody's excited about that," Washington coach Ron Rivera said. "That's great. But that's not the goal. The goal is to win the Super Bowl. It's like that old saying that the team that ends up on top just doesn't land there. They had to work their way up. So, we're on our way up."

 

Washington won because it has a young, and excellent, defensive front -- one NFC scout called it "great." It has standout ends in Young and Montez Sweat. It needs to add to the back seven, but the foundation is set to build a championship-caliber defense.

But it might not matter if the team is unable to settle on a quarterback.

 

Rivera said they would be meeting on that topic this week, but it's hard to come up with any other conclusion than Washington must find one.

Alex Smith, 36, is mulling his future -- if he does return, will he last a full season? Kyle Allen was viewed as a backup/fringe starter and now is coming off a broken ankle; Taylor Heinicke is acknowledged as a terrific story in the organization, but that guarantees nothing other than fighting for a roster spot. They also have Steven Montez, an undrafted free-agent rookie. They have parts; they need The Guy.

 

Check out the quarterbacks left in the playoffs (Kansas City's Patrick Mahomes, Cleveland's Baker Mayfield, Buffalo's Josh Allen, Baltimore's Lamar Jackson, Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers, Tampa Bay's Tom Brady, New Orleans' Drew Brees and L.A. Rams' Jared Goff). Five have been to the Super Bowl and four have won it. That's the kind of guy you need to advance -- especially if other holes exist on the roster.

One NFC scout said Washington had to scheme its way to points, a hard way to live. What the team needs, he said, is a stronger front that can help develop an identity and lead to more bread-and-butter plays that don't need to fool the defense to succeed.

 

The hard part will be acquiring that quarterback, and it's uncertain what veterans might be available and at what cost.

Washington, which picks at No. 19 in the 2021 NFL draft, could select a QB. However, there also is a belief, by bolstering the lineup elsewhere on offense, it could win nine or 10 games with average to solid quarterback play. In 2018, before Smith was hurt, the team played turnover-free ball and was 6-3, but not viewed as a legitimate threat for the postseason.

A higher level of play is needed for the Super Bowl.

 

That's one reason Washington has failed to repeat playoff seasons. It appeared to have quarterback issues resolved in some of those years

 

...But, as the franchise has seen, keeping the momentum has been the hardest part.

"The key to it really will be the way we come back, and how we approach the upcoming season," Rivera said. "If we come back and we're fat and lazy, we're going to get the crap kicked out of us. It's that simple."

Players heeded his season-ending message.

"Everybody on this team knows we have something to build on and what we can do," Young said. "Next year is our chance to prove that."

 

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington/post/_/id/40982/whether-washington-football-team-keeps-momentum-depends-on-its-qb

Edited January 14, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 Taylor Heinicke is acknowledged as a terrific story in the organization, but that guarantees nothing other than fighting for a roster spot. 

not around these parts 

[tmandoug1]

Heard a rumor on the McaFee show today that New England may be sniffing around Heinickeee. If this is turns out to be a fact we need to sign him immediately IMHO.

[CapsSkins]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the point but I am getting the strong impression from those who cover the team that they don't believe Heinicke will be QB #1 next season but instead a backup.

 

I don't put any stock into that. Why would the beat guys know? They're mostly just vapid mouthpieces. And not like the coaching staff would anoint him, either. The company line will be he gets a shot to compete, which is all we Heinicke Hivers are asking for anyway. The durability concern is pretty universally acknowledged. But if he puts on 5-10 pounds this summer and is more judicious about taking shots, it should give some measure of comfort. At that point, if he wins out in camp, he gets the job.

 

There are a slew of guys you could bring in where Heinicke would still have the chance to win the starting job: Tyrod, Bridgewater, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Minshew, even Mariota... none of those guys would be guaranteed a starting role. It's when you get into Stafford, Ryan and Dak territory that you're talking about anointing a guy.  

 

Either way, beat guys saying the FO "isn't sold" on Heinicke is a bit of a nothing statement IMO. Technically, we hivers aren't "sold" on him either, we just want to give him a real chance to win the job.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said:

Heard a rumor on the McaFee show today that New England may be sniffing around Heinickeee. If this is turns out to be a fact we need to sign him immediately IMHO.

He's a RFA.  

[HigSkin]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Either way, beat guys saying the FO "isn't sold" on Heinicke is a bit of a nothing statement IMO. Technically, we hivers aren't "sold" on him either, we just want to give him a real chance to win the job.

 

It might mean nothing to you, that's cool.  It means something to me when they say their sources with the team say they are worried about his durabilty and the plan appears to be moving forward to go get a QB.   Ditto when their sources say he's not seen as a starter.  Maybe they end up dead wrong.     Maybe privately Ron Rivera is beyond giddy and he thinks they got the QB of the future and is orchestrating a misinformation campaign  -- I got no idea. 

 

But I trust Keim in particular as for his sources which tend to be really good.  And although Keim hasn't dived super deep into the subject, I get the impression that he doesn't think Heinicke has altered their plans at all including from listening to his new podcast from today.   If you want to believe in your feeling about this over lets say Keim's sources, that's cool.  But I think some here are interested in what some of these guys are hearing for better or worse and so I'll share and those who think they are nothing statements, that's cool, then just ignore.  

Edited January 14, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Ruzious]

As the saying goes; nothing guarantees anything.  I hate the idea of giving up high picks and 20 plus million dollars of cap space for a QB that may or may not be any better than Heinicke or Allen - Kyle Allen, that is.  I'm fine if they want to add Mariota to the mix, because he won't cost anywhere near some of the others, and I think he's more talented than he's shown - though he's obviously not a star.  Yeah, all the QB's still in the playoffs are stars, but ordinary QB's like Joe Flacco and Nick Foles have amazing records in the playoffs - including SB MVP's.  We won 3 SB's with 3 different QB's.  I'm fine with having a great team with a solid QB - rather than a meh team with a very talented QB.  That's the best way to go for this team, imo.   

 

Keep our draft picks!!!           

[JoggingGod]

4 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

As the saying goes; nothing guarantees anything.  I hate the idea of giving up high picks and 20 plus million dollars of cap space for a QB that may or may not be any better than Heinicke or Allen - Kyle Allen, that is.  I'm fine if they want to add Mariota to the mix, because he won't cost anywhere near some of the others, and I think he's more talented than he's shown - though he's obviously not a star.  Yeah, all the QB's still in the playoffs are stars, but ordinary QB's like Joe Flacco and Nick Foles have amazing records in the playoffs - including SB MVP's.  We won 3 SB's with 3 different QB's.  I'm fine with having a great team with a solid QB - rather than a meh team with a very talented QB.  That's the best way to go for this team, imo.   

 

Keep our draft picks!!!           

Well I can guarantee you Watson and Stafford are leagues above Heinicke and Allen

[DWinzit]

28 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

All 4 were huge reaches as are most chosen in the middle of the first. There are few times where QB's aren't reaches I guess

[wit33]

10 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

As the saying goes; nothing guarantees anything.  I hate the idea of giving up high picks and 20 plus million dollars of cap space for a QB that may or may not be any better than Heinicke or Allen - Kyle Allen, that is.  I'm fine if they want to add Mariota to the mix, because he won't cost anywhere near some of the others, and I think he's more talented than he's shown - though he's obviously not a star.  Yeah, all the QB's still in the playoffs are stars, but ordinary QB's like Joe Flacco and Nick Foles have amazing records in the playoffs - including SB MVP's.  We won 3 SB's with 3 different QB's.  I'm fine with having a great team with a solid QB - rather than a meh team with a very talented QB.  That's the best way to go for this team, imo.   

 

Keep our draft picks!!!           

The floor of each player is a huge factor in the decision at the QB spot of an FO and coach that fans for most part don’t give a damn about lol. It’s all ceiling for us. 
 

The expected floor for Stafford is waaaay above those other two, not to mention the expected ceiling .

[Ruzious]

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

Well I can guarantee you Watson and Stafford are leagues above Heinicke and Allen

Ok, I'll call your guarantee and guarantee you they'll cost several tons more - in terms of high picks to improve the talent level of the entire team as well as cap space that could be used to acquire an outstanding receiver like Allen Robinson. 

 

As talented as Stafford is, he's played in a total of 3 playoff games in 12 NFL seasons.      

[profusion]

19 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

 

19 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

 

As talented as Stafford is, he's played in a total of 3 playoff games in 12 NFL seasons.      

 

There is the Lions factor to consider. They've had two of the best players of all time at their positions (Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson) and managed to drive them both to early retirement while winning nothing.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

not around these parts 

 

Heck I thought I was a big Heinicke guy, i even bought one of those Heinicke legend shirts for my kid.  But I guess not.  😀  But yeah I figure Keim is more plugged into the team than we are and i get a strong vibe that nothing has changed as to their off season plans.   And he's not the only one saying that.  Will see. 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

The floor of each player is a huge factor in the decision at the QB spot of an FO and coach that fans for most part don’t give a damn about lol. It’s all ceiling for us. 
 

The expected floor for Stafford is waaaay above those other two, not to mention the expected ceiling .

 

So is the expected ceiling if we are talking about Stafford.    And I'd add an undersized QB with a history of injuries isn't something that teams just shrug off typically as just some minor concern. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[joeken24]

On 1/13/2021 at 7:44 PM, kingdaddy said:

Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie referred to Wentz as "an asset" in his presser this week. No doubt the Eagles will look to deal his contract...not sure they'd trade him in the division and not sure if we'd even want him as he was brutal this year. But he could be available and I'm sure he would be for the right price. In fact, if the Eagles want to deal him bad enough maybe theyd take less just to unload him?

Sam Darnold is an interesting name...if the Jets want to move him would they take pick #19 straight up for him? Would we do that?

Fitzpatrick is a great option if we like Heinicke/Allen and find a kid in the draft or if we like Montez. I am convinced Fitzmagic could take us far if we gave him the keys to the bus and added talent throughout the roster. He would come in ready to roll and I could see RR loving a grpup of Fitz,Heinicke/Allen...

I would LOVE to see this group for a year or two. 

 

 

All those guys you mentioned are being cussed out by their fanbase. We get the national media's take on them and rarely tune in their games to see what the truth is. They are names. That's it. They don't play well. Otherwise they would be benched and/or leaving their teams. They'd be the franchise. This is not the time to be picking up someone else's trash. Even Fitz is not nearly as magic as he seems. Especially if he's looking to get paid anything over vet min. 

[tmandoug1]

5 hours ago, RWJ said:

He's a RFA.  

I have read through the RFA stuff......it may actually mean nothing in his case. It appears all the more reason to get him under contract prior to the March /draft period.

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

I have read through the RFA stuff......it may actually mean nothing in his case. It appears all the more reason to get him under contract prior to the March /draft period.

Dude, it means he's a Restricted Free Agent with this team.  If you know that then it means we own his rights as a free agents.  If he hit's FA we have the right to match any offer another team makes.  He's had 5 quarters of play in the NFL.  It won't be expensive to keep him  He'll be a WFT player on our roster next year.  It's all good.

[KDawg]

We just keeping having the same conversations over and over again RE: QB. I think it’s going to be prudent for us to see how things start to shake out before any of us start getting too into it. Our great ideas now may make no sense whatsoever in a month.

 

A guy can get hurt walking down the stairs and totally throw the whole plan off regardless. 
 

Stafford would be an incredible upgrade but the battle is always going to be: what is the cost? And if his injuries begin to pile up, is the cost worth it? (You can say this for anyone, but Stafford has played through a ton of pretty real injuries. His body has gone through a lot.)

 

Heinicke is an incredible story and he PROVED he can do it in a game for WASHINGTON. But was the game his ceiling and how low do his lows go? And can he stay healthy?

 

Is Kyle Allen going to be the same after his recovery?

 

Are other options that don’t yet seem to be available going to hit the market?

 

I mean, we’re here to discuss this stuff.  But just remember this stuff is fluid.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

I mean, we’re here to discuss this stuff.  But just remember this stuff is fluid.

 

I think "fluid" will be the operational point at QB.  It's not like for example the WR spot where there are ample possibilities and it might be easier to project.  I think the QB spot is going to require a Zen approach, other teams decisions among other things which are out of our control could weigh heavily on what develops or not, and that applies to everything:  FA, trades, draft. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I think "fluid" will be the operational point at QB.  It's not like for example the WR spot where there are ample possibilities and it might be easier to project.  I think the QB spot is going to require a Zen approach, other teams decisions among other things which are out of our control could weigh heavily on what develops or not, and that applies to everything:  FA, trades, draft. 

Re: the tweet - I don’t understand why is going after a FA WR means we won’t go after one in the draft. That’s kind of silly

[Koolblue13]

Just now, KDawg said:

Re: the tweet - I don’t understand why is going after a FA WR means we won’t go after one in the draft. That’s kind of silly

Yeah, I doubt they're putting that mindset in ink, but I do like that the position is a priority. Not that it surprises anyone.

 

Not high on JuJu. Kids a clown.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, KDawg said:

Re: the tweet - I don’t understand why is going after a FA WR means we won’t go after one in the draft. That’s kind of silly

 

I listened to that podcast.  I took his point as implying they want a sure fire receiver to add to the mix.  That won't preclude them for adding one in the draft too.  But an established veteran is more likely to be counted on then a dude in the draft.  Clearly they need a Z and a Y/slot receiver.  

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I listened to that podcast.  I took his point as implying they want a sure fire receiver to add to the mix.  That won't preclude them for adding one in the draft too.  But an established veteran is more likely to be counted on then a dude in the draft.  Clearly they need a Z and a Y/slot receiver.  

I’ll take it a step further. They need a Z, another outside receiver and a slot.

 

The WR corps. Needs to be totally revamped. 
 

Also not a fan of the “fanbase is emotional” sentiment. While I agree that Heinicke is still a bit of an unknown and it’s dangerous to put all our eggs in his basket and pass on any quality QB options that make sense...

 

Heinicke’s performance made it clear that it’s not an emotional response. He played with poise, made excellent reads, understood pressure schemes and showcased NFL ability. To suggest the fanbase is reacting purely on emotion is suggesting we’re wrong about his positive abilities.

 

The truth is that our personnel group sees him in building. In prep. In practice. They see how he is in the locker room and how the team views him. I can accept it if they don’t think he’s the starting quarterback based on those factors, or durability, or sample size. 
 

But to suggest the fanbase is reacting emotionally when it was clear he CAN play in the league is off putting.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I doubt they're putting that mindset in ink, but I do like that the position is a priority. Not that it surprises anyone.

 

Not high on JuJu. Kids a clown.

 

I got the impression that Keim's JuJu thing was a guess versus something he heard.    He doesn't seem to be a bad locker room guy like an Antonio Brown.  But he seems to be a fun loving dude and he needs to stop dancing on the opposing team's logo and giving bullentin board material.  😀

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/08/21/smith-schuster-now-a-youthful-leader-of-steelers-receivers/39990947/

While part of his popularity among fans and likeability among teammates comes from the image of him riding his bicycle to work or getting into water balloon fights with kids,

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I doubt they're putting that mindset in ink, but I do like that the position is a priority. Not that it surprises anyone.

 

Not high on JuJu. Kids a clown.

Yeah the the JuJu link was posted a few weeks back and I think any link probably dates back to that time. Been nothing since.

 

Youngest pending FA on the market, 24 maybe? Very young to be coming off his rookie deal already. I could live with that move. Plenty of upside.

 

Agree though, last few weeks he’s coming across as a clown. Phase or inherent trait. No idea.