Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[kingdaddy]

Darnold sees ghosts....what other QB in history has seen ghosts on the field? Please no. 

[Darth Tater]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

Darnold sees ghosts....what other QB in history has seen ghosts on the field? Please no. 

Just about every QB that has ever played.

[Jericho]

I think the question is who is the trade competition for Darnold? I suppose the Jets could keep him. Salary-wise it's possible. But it seems 99% certain the Jets are taking a QB at #2 or somehow trading it for Deshaun Watson (which is very unlikely, but still means they get a QB to replace Darnold). Here's a list of teams I woul dgive more than a 5% chance of trading for Darnold:

 

Chicago

New Orleans

Carolina

New England

Pittsburgh

Denver

 

I have no idea if any of these teams think Darnold is actually good. And several of them are pretty longshots. So I suspect the actual amount of team wanting to give up assets for Darnold is quite short. I'm guessing the best the Jets will do is a third.

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

Just posting this.  That's all

 

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1363549301671153666?s=20

 

 

There...

 

now as long as I do that every 2 hours, I can live in a world where I don't have to see outlets link us to Sam Darnold

 

 

[samy316]

Whether it’s Darnold or Mariotta, we’re going to be adding a vet QB to this roster.  We literally have no choice, since it’s suicide to start next year with one injury-prone, mediocre at best QB (Allen), and another QB that has only had exactly one good game, but was on the streets before we signed him (Heinecke).

 

We’re most likely cutting Alex Smith, so it’s either an FA or traded QB who most likely starts game one next year (Mariotta/Fitz/Darnold), or we trade up in the draft to get either Lance or Fields, and start Allen/Heinecke to begin the season.

Edited February 21, 2021 by samy316

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, fearlessNelms said:

 

I have my thoughts on some guys I'd like to see us go after- Minshew being one of them. But whatever we do, I'm confident that Rivera and our front office have a real plan for the QB position and will be extremely quiet and patient in executing it. 

 

Minshew would be an interesting pickup. I figure Jax might potentially try and move him at some point, assuming they go Lawrence at #1 overall. However, it depends on the market...he's still on a low round rookie deal so he's an incredibly cheap guy to have as a good backup. If they get a good offer they'll probably take it but if not...might as well keep him for now.

 

Minshew kinda reminds me of a Heinicke on steroids. His game is somewhat similar but he's bigger, stronger, and has multiple years of NFL production. We could certainly do worse.

 

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Darnold sees ghosts....what other QB in history has seen ghosts on the field? Please no. 

 

As I'm sure is obvious, I'm certainly not at all a Darnold guy. But IMO too much has been made of that one stupid thing. It was a moment that most QBs have had and where they've thought/said something similar but he just happened to be caught doing it on mic.

 

He was a young QB getting pressured like crazy, and noted that it was giving him problems and he was essentially getting spooked and prematurely bailing because of it. I doubt there's a single QB playing who's never had that happen to them.

 

Again, that doesn't mean I want him. But IMO there are plenty of reasons not to like his game without pulling out that rando quote.

[skinzplay]

Zampese spent more time with Darnold than arguably any other position coach during that pre-draft process in '18. As I understand it, he was a big Josh Allen supporter and helped pull Haslam away from the Darnold ledge. The only QB that Z really wanted to draft and develop was J. Allen. Dorsey, Highsmith and Hue wanted Mayfield; no one among the team's braintrust wanted Darnold.

 

Darnold would be hard pressed to even replace a backup QB for most of the teams in this league. There's no way in the wide world of sports that any of those teams is gonna give up a 2nd rounder for the kid. Ain't gonna happen, no matter how effective Jimmy Sexton is at his usual media manipulation. He does this stuff routinely with the college coaches he represents (another team is interested, better give my guy a raise/extension). Now he's got the twitter jockies doing his bidding with these absurd missives about 1st and 2nd rounders for a QB that most teams wouldn't trade a bowl of oatmeal for. It's absolute lunacy. Also helps the Jets GM, who is also one of his clients. if they can get other teams to stupidly believe that someone wants to sacrifice prime draft capital for an extremely flawed QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

there is only one QB among the FA's who can take us to the SB next season .  But seriously among the FA's he's the dude I'd trust the most.  He gets rid of the ball fast and can get the ball down the field.  but if its Fitzmagic we need to for sure get another WR in FA.    Dolphins had a bad O line last year and even worse weapons than we did -- yet he still did well.   He gives his WRs a shot to make plays but better make sure we got WRs who are good at making contested catches.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[86 Snyder]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

there is only one QB among the FA's who can take us to the SB next season .  But seriously among the FA's he's the dude I'd trust the most.  He gets rid of the ball fast and can get the ball down the field.  but if its Fitzmagic we need to for sure get another WR in FA.    Dolphins had a bad O line last year and even worse weapons than we did -- yet he still did well.   He gives his WRs a shot to make plays but better make sure we got WRs who are good at making contested catches.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I'm ready to say I'm firmly on this train unless we can snag one of the top 4 QBs in the draft.  Fitz, Heinicke, and Allen seems like the best grouping we can put together and if we do I bet all three will be needed.

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Darnold sees ghosts....what other QB in history has seen ghosts on the field? Please no. 

 

RG3.

[heyholetsgogrant]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Sheehan from the context of he's entertaining and I like that he's still a genuine fan.  I've heard Finlay and Standig seperately in interviews say  they were once fans but not so much anymore.  Sheehan seems genuinely invested in this teams success so I like that.

 

I don't mind Sheehan or anyone have a different point than mine but he's so enthusiastic about Darnold you'd figure he'd sell it but he doesn't dive much into details.  Cooley in a recent podcast repeated the infamous Darnold comment about seeing ghosts (when he was miked up) and was having a lousy game.   Then Cooley suggested Darnold might be soft so Sheehan goes if you think he's soft than you shouldn't want him so Cooley backtracked and said its not necesssarily what he thought but others might.   But I still haven't heard Cooley say he watched a few games and here is his conclusion.  I respect Cooley a lot on that front (film reviews) so if he dived into Darnold and actually sold him after that, it would make me feel better about it if they chased him. 

 

I went back and rewatched three Darnold USC games to re-familiarize myself in what I and mock drafter types liked about Darnold before the draft.  I recall liking Darnold but not loving him, then.  I liked Mayfield better than him.  I didn't watch Josh Allen but i recall Cooley thouight Allen was the best QB in that class.  And Cooley was right.  Everyone gets some wrong including Cooley but he has IMO a good eye. 

 

My take rewatching some Darnold USC games he comes off at times like a baller because he's good at dodging pressure in the pocket, readjusting his feet (something Haskins struggled with) on the move and making at times ballsy highlight type plays.  He's not fast.  He's not a runner.   But he is great at rolling in the pocket and making something happen.  You could also see the bad decision making easily, too.  He makes some real dumb decisions as to throwing into coverage.   He can make some real beauty throws on out routes and darts on the move.   But his touch isn't always there and his accuracy isn't laser sharp.  

 

As for what's different in college versus the pros for him?  IMHO, its in college he played with moxie as for stretching the field.  He looked like a dude who might have turnover issues in the pros but also would move the ball down the field.  So sort of like a Ryan Fitzpatrick, but not as accurate, but with a stronger arm and better movement in the pocket.  The pro version of Darnold from what i saw is a dude who doesn't play with confidence/moxie and makes safer throws yet still has enough boneheaded decisions to throw away a game.  So the combination to me is "meh"

 

If teams think they can rehab him, I am guessing its something like this:  Gase might have turned him into a game manager type which wasn't his game in college, bring out more of his USC moxie, don't worry about making mistakes.  Let it fly more.  The mistakes are happening with the conservative play anyway.  Darnold comes off as a baller with the Jets still from the context of making plays when the pocket breaks down but otherwise he doesn't seem to play with moxie.   

 

In short, I'd guess some teams might think a fresh scene and good coaching might help rebuild his confidence and then surround him with weapons.  Watching his USC games (unlike the Jets) the overriding vibe I get is he's going to give his receivers chances and will require them to make contested catches so you better get dudes who do that well.    Same feeling I have if they get Ryan Fitzpatrick.  But back to Darnold, I think you got to build his confidence back and perhaps have him just ride with the gun slinger style of USC versus the game manager with the Jets.   I don't think you can coach the turnovers out of him, it seems inherent in his game, and the Jets made him play more conservatively and yet he still has issues with turnovers then IMO its just who he is.  You got to live with it and accentuate his strengths. 

 

So none of this means I want Darnold.  i don't.  The main reason why is I think QBs who make poor decisions routinely aren't really seeing the field well.  I got the same impression when I watched Rosen.  It's not that Rosen and Darnold are just being aggressive and stuff happens, that I could live with, its that they have these throws that make you shake your head as to what are they thinking?  

 

 

 

What you describe Darnold in college, is exactly what I see from him the NFL.  Good in the pocket and rolling out, but lacks some accuracy (balls tend to sail high) and makes some dumb throws. Basically, he hasn’t progressed. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[rumplestilskin]

Fitzpatrick has the juice to lead us to the promised land and we can still go all in on building the roster. All without giving up precious draft capital and breaking the bank. He is the dude we need coupled with Hiney and Allen.

[Conn]

The other thing with Fitzpatrick is guys have produced big at WR with him. If you sign him quickly in FA, you are in a better spot with regard to convincing FA WR’s to sign here, especially the ones that may want to sign short term deals and get back to FA in a year or two due to the COVID-reduced salary cap this offseason. WRs love playing with Fitz and believe he can deliver them big numbers. That matters in this FA market if you want an ARob or Golladay type WR to pair with McLaurin. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

there is only one QB among the FA's who can take us to the SB next season .  But seriously among the FA's he's the dude I'd trust the most.  He gets rid of the ball fast and can get the ball down the field.  but if its Fitzmagic we need to for sure get another WR in FA.    Dolphins had a bad O line last year and even worse weapons than we did -- yet he still did well.   He gives his WRs a shot to make plays but better make sure we got WRs who are good at making contested catches.  

The other thing is you have to get a guy to develop with the eye of him being the starter in 2022 or 2023, and you’ve got to figure out how to do that.  
 

If you believe (and I do) Fitzy can magic this team to 8-10 wins, you’re picking 16-20 again next year.  
 

So where is the next guy coming from?  This year’s draft? Next year? 
 

I wouldn’t mind the move but due to his age alone, you’ve GOT to have the long-term plan on the roster soon.

 

And signing him also would be a clear indication the team doesn’t feel Kyle Allen or Beer Man is the long term answer. So the STILL need a guy and their draft position next year likely won’t be too much better, and might be worse, than this year.

[NoCalMike]

I agree that regardless of what you think Fitzpatrick can do for the team the next season or two, it is basically extending the current situation down the road a couple years.  Assuming the team finishes in the 7-10 win range in 2021, they are pretty much right back where drafting a Top QB prospect is out the window, so then we are back to looking at free agency or drafting a mid-round project.  

 

I am all for bringing in a solid vet if possible, but I prefer one that has at least 5 seasons of their ceiling-level play in them. 

[duffy]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And signing him also would be a clear indication the team doesn’t feel Kyle Allen or Beer Man is the long term answer. So the STILL need a guy and their draft position next year likely won’t be too much better, and might be worse, than this year.

 

I don't think a Fitz signing is a clear indication either way. I think he could absolutely be viewed as a starter or backup for the next year or two. He's obviously not a long-term answer. 

 

And while I'm rooting hard for Heineke, the club certainly doesn't need to put all their chips on him after such a few quarters in the books. 

 

But I can see a scenario where Heineke, Allen and Fitz compete for the job, one of the young guys runs with it, and Fitz stays on as a backup/mentor like he did in Miami.

 

The team appears to be in a competitive window, so I'd certainly be interested in having Fitz just in case Heineke/Allen were to stumble after initially winning the job. 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Now they're saying Mariota likely will be cut, as opposed to traded.

For no compensation. I'd take him. And feel okay with him, Allen and Heinicke battling it out.

But still draft a QB on Day 1 or 2.

 

Matt Harmon of yah00, picked Russell Wilson as the guy that makes the most sense, for both sides.

 

Russ gets to cook with Washington

I can’t really comprehend a universe where Russell Wilson plays anywhere but Seattle next year — and for the next five-plus seasons, if we’re being honest. That said, I’d love it if he could somehow find his way to turn frustration into action and force a trade to Washington. Not the team you were expecting? Fair enough. I’m ready to root for Wilson being moved just about anywhere purely for chaos’ sake. Look, folks, I’m going to be wish-casting any average to slightly solid quarterback to The Football Team this offseason. Terry McLaurin is a true superstar-caliber alpha receiver and just plain deserves a high-end passer to prove it to the rest of the sheep out there. Logan Thomas is on the come-up and a kick in the rear for Washington’s offense would only improve the already bright outlook for Antonio Gibson. Washington is a team that’s ready to compete right now with a strong defense and steady coaching staff. Granted, they’d probably need to do a little offensive line investing since sacks (even if they’re a bit his fault) seem to be one of the sources of Wilson’s ire. This destination might not check all of No. 3’s boxes, but it does check mine.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/wildest-nfl-rumors-we-want-to-believe-riding-the-qb-carousel-173006285.html

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[petey hodge]

This is totally hypothetical, but...

 

Could Tom Brady win us a SB next year with the current roster (sans the QBs)?

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

they're saying Mariota likely will be cut, as opposed to traded.

For no compensation. I'd take him. And feel okay with him, Allen and Heinicke battling it out.

But still draft a QB on Day 1 or 2.

Yep no chance the Raiders carry his contract as well as Carrs. Something has to give there. The Pats seem to be linked too, although I can’t see the 49ers sticking with Jimmy G at 25mil per year, so that could unfold soon as well. Would think NE would have interest there. I’ve speculated in the past that I think we would too, although that will bring the Sam Darnold level of excitement I suspect....

 

As for Fitzmagic, we’ll I’ve never been sure on that move, but something makes you think if we brought him in on a 1 or 2 year deal we’d get some exciting football. I could see his character fitting in with the roster we have. I think a move for him has some merit, in our circumstances. 

[Skinsinparadise]

As for Fitzpatrick would demand some other option at QB down the road, of course.  Keim mentioned trading down to build 2022 draft capital.  I don't have at the moment much faith that they'd be in position to get a good QB in that draft.  Right now its looking weak at QB in the draft.  Someone new might emerge in that draft but still whomever that is, I doubt we'd be in position to get that guy.  So I'd guess the draft capital would be used to trade hopefully for a veteran. 

 

I'd still rather got one now but if you can't you can't.  Would I put money they'd pull it off next year?  Nope.  but it is what it is, you got to keep swinging and hope to get lucky. 

[HigSkin]

 

'Bold' Washington To Sign QB Fitzpatrick Due to 'No-Man's Land'?

Washington won the NFC East. Teams don't get to own the first-overall pick in a draft after they've won divisions. That's not "no-man's land''; that's the rule.

 

ESPN is gaining a great deal of traction with a bit it calls "Bold Predictions,'' which features NFL beat writers being asked (forced?) to issue slightly-plausible but highly-click-worthy forecasts for the 32 teams. 

 

In Carolina, for instance, the beat writer suggested the Panthers would trade Christian McCaffrey and three first-round picks to Houston for Deshaun Watson, and the reaction - reaction that assumed this was newsworthy - was so strong that ESPN was forced to crawfish its way in reverse, laboring to make it clear that this was meant not to be "news,'' but rather ...

 

A "Bold Opinion.''

 

The Washington Football Team is subjected to the same treatment, of course. ... is newsworthy ... and is QB-hungry.

Enter Ryan Fitzpatrick and "No-Man's Land.''

 

Since entering the NFL in 2005, Fitzpatrick has played for eight different franchises, he and his gigantic beard working together to create a reputation for him as someone who creates "magic'' upon his arrival.

 

The magic often fades. But at 38, Fitzpatrick's reputation remains.  What does this have to do with Washington?

 

ESPN "insider'' Field Yates appeared on TV to make "predictions'' (bold or otherwise) about the NFL QB Carousel. Yates connected Fitzpatrick to WFT in a way that comes with a sort of "plausible deniability.''

 

Said Yates: "How about Ryan Fitzpatrick, who I think has earned the chance to be a starting quarterback again this year after the way he played last year."

 

Fitzpatrick played in nine Miami games last year, with a 13/8 TD/interception ratio. There is nothing especially wrong with the idea, if we're just throwing out random ideas. 

 

But is that what we're doing? Or are we "reporting as an ESPN insider''?

 

 

The audience needs to know the difference, and is probably also wondering what Yates means when he says, "The Washington Football Team is kind of ... in that 'no-man's land.'

 

He seems to mean that with the 19th overall pick, they aren't going to end this NFL Draft with Trevor Lawrence. But 30 other teams are in that same situation.

 

Washington won the NFC East. Teams don't get to own the first-overall pick in a draft after they've won divisions. That's not "no-man's land''; that's the rule.

 

WFT has many, many options here; it's just a matter of whether it wishes to utilize them. If they don't want to bid on Deshaun Watson, that's their choice. If, a few tiers down, they don't want to trade for Sam Darnold, that's their choice. If they flat don't like Cam Newton, that's their choice.

 

If they don't want to trade up for a QB in the draft? Yup. That's their choice. 

 

But they are not hamstrung in a way that "forces'' them to sign 38-year-old Ryan Fitzpatrick. They will do so if coach Ron Rivera and company view that as a winning option.

 

And, sorry, there is nothing "bold'' about us making that "prediction.''

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Its fun sometimes to go back and read old clippings.  And Breer and Schefter are among the most accurate reporters as to rumors.  Clearly the Browns fooled some. 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2765975-sam-darnold-rumors-afc-exec-says-browns-will-select-usc-qb-no-1-in-nfl-draft&

 

An anonymous AFC executive said Wednesday that the Cleveland Browns will select USC quarterback Sam Darnold with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2018 NFL draft.

"He's going No. 1," the executive told Albert Breer of The MMQB following Darnold's pro day performance. "Everyone out there today saw the Browns' franchise quarterback."

Cleveland owns the top overall selection, which means it will have its pick of the litter at quarterback in a draft that also includes UCLA's Josh Rosen, Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield and Wyoming's Josh Allen.

As seen in the following video courtesy of the NFL, Darnold thrived during his pro day throwing session despite rainy conditions:

 

 

Per ESPN's Adam Schefter, a large Browns contingent was on hand to watch Darnold, including general manager John Dorsey, head coach Hue Jackson, offensive coordinator Todd Haley and quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese.

Penn State running back Saquon Barkley once looked like a possibility for Cleveland at No. 1 overall, but the New York Jets' decision to trade up from No. 6 to No. 3 likely threw that option out the window. Since the New York Giants at No. 2 and Jets at No. 3 are both threats to take a quarterback, the Browns essentially must take the one they want first overall.

Darnold is brimming with potential, but there are concerns about him after his play seemingly dropped off last season as a redshirt sophomore. His completion percentage fell from 67.2 percent to 63.1 percent, his passing touchdowns dropped from 31 to 26 and his interceptions increased from nine to 13 when compared to his redshirt freshman campaign.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[skinzplay]

No one among the Browns football people had any real interest in Darnold. By the time the kid's pro day had come around, their decision had largely been made. The only person who was intrigued was the owner, thanks largely to a lot of private lobbying by fellow Tennessee alum Jimmy Sexton. With surgical precision, though, Zampese explained, in minute detail, why Darnold would never pan out. The dude knows QBs.

[HigSkin]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Its fun sometimes to go back and read old clippings.  And Breer and Schefter are among the most accurate reporters as to rumors.  Clearly the Browns fooled some. 

 

 

 

On Get Up this morning Matt Miller said he had Darnold ranked #1 coming out but he was wrong and Jets need to move on.  He's the first supposed draft expert that I've heard admit that.  LOL

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

On Get Up this morning Matt Miller said he had Darnold ranked #1 coming out but he was wrong and Jets need to move on.  He's the first supposed draft expert that I've heard admit that.  LOL

 

yeah if we traded for Darnold, I'd expect universal love from most of the mock drafters.  Same dudes who said we nailed it with Haskins at 15.  Same dudes who said the Dolphins got a steal when they got Rosen for a 2nd and change.  I like to read mock drafts for entertainment value but they get plenty wrong and that goes double at QB.  And they oddly have a hard time admitting they were wrong.  And i don't get why its so hard for them to do it, professionals get it wrong all the time, its OK to be wrong, it happens to everyone.  Probably the most famous example for me was Kiper was so convinced Jimmy Clausen would be the goods in the NFL that he said he'd quit his job if he ended up wrong.  Well, he did end up wrong and clearly never quit.