RichmondRedskin88

Hypothetical- Cincy throws a curveball and take Chase. Would you take Joe Burrow?

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17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Shame Haskins and Burrow never had to compete straight up for a starting role.

 

They competed for a starting role in a system that highlighted Haskins abilities.

 

Switch them both to LSU and that system and who wins?

 

It's all about system design and growth.

 

I don't know who will be the better pro. But this argument is kind of a misnomer.

11 minutes ago, checmate21 said:

The Haskins salt in here is crazy man

 

See, this is the issue.

 

You take all of this as "salt" but it's criticism.

 

I don't know how Haskins is going to pan out. But I don't love the guy as a quarterback.

 

But, since his last 6 quarters, I don't hate him, either. I'm open on this whole thing. Completely. Everyone should be. Whatever is best for the team's desires is what's important. 

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1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

He’s a great prospect though. His play style reminds me of Romo at his peak. Still, there’s no way I waste a pick on him when we have a promising young QB already who has all the raw talent in the world; just needs a good QB coach to develop his mechanics and footwork, which it looks like we’ll have. Apparently Rattay wasn’t all that highly thought of within the building last year, and Gruden all but ignored Haskins. I want to see what he can do with a staff that’s dedicated to molding the raw clay we were lucky enough to have fall in our laps last year. 

Where did you hear this? I heard it in the Redskins Talk podcast and found it interesting, but was always curious to why I never heard Rattay's name in a positive or negative light. if we remember when KOC was hired, we were hearing all these rumors about his intelligence and he was promoted to OC here because other teams wanted to interview him. I almost never heard anything about Rattay, and wondered if part of the reason that Haskins was behind before his first start was that he was depending on Smith to do a job that Rattay should have been doing. 

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17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

One in the hand.

That’s what she said. (Couldn’t resist a great setup.)

 

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16 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Where did you hear this? I heard it in the Redskins Talk podcast and found it interesting, but was always curious to why I never heard Rattay's name in a positive or negative light. if we remember when KOC was hired, we were hearing all these rumors about his intelligence and he was promoted to OC here because other teams wanted to interview him. I almost never heard anything about Rattay, and wondered if part of the reason that Haskins was behind before his first start was that he was depending on Smith to do a job that Rattay should have been doing. 

 

I read it in an article recently.  I've read so many articles lately though that I honestly can't remember which.  

 

I always thought it was a little odd we were giving the QB position coach title to someone who had never coached at the NFL level before; especially given how raw Haskins was.

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49 minutes ago, SAli457180 said:

 

Haskins isn't Josh Rosen.  He's much better than Rosen.  I don't think Rivera is ready to give up on Haskins.  If he believes that Haskins is the answer then he'll stick with him instead of trading him away

 

They're completely different QBs in almost every way. Rosen has a mediocre arm and mediocre decision making but he has borderline flawless mechanics and footwork. He played in a pro style system in college. Haskins has a huge arm and superior physical skills but his mechanics and footwork still really need work. He played in a YAC heavy college offense based on simple reads and tons of crossing patterns. They're just completely different beasts. 

 

44 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


How so?  Rosen had a superior rookie year in comparison. Rosen was a top 10 pick in the draft. Haskins was not.   Rivera has no allegiance to any player on this roster. Maybe a little to Josh Norman. That’s it.

 

In what way? Rosen in his rookie year had a worse completion %, worse TD:INT ratio, worse QB rating, worse QBR...basically worse everything. Granted, he was also playing behind possibly the worst OL I've ever seen, but still...I'm not sure what you're using to back this assertion up. As far as the draft pick position...they were 5 picks apart. You're making it sound like there was some huge gulf. One was 10, one was 15. 

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1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

I don't think any of those teams would spend their 2nd on Haskins.  They'd be better off drafting best available QB.

 

There is a scenario where they cant draft the best available in the second because of other needs. Or they dont like any of the guys available. Haskins was seen as a reach in the first when we took him but a sure second. He really hasnt done much to change that one way or the other. Its possible with a trade for him on the table, he IS the best available in the second. Its not like he flat out sucks. 

 

You havent given me a reason why you dont think any of those teams would spend a second on haskin yet. I cant argue your reasoning if you dont share it. Otherwise you are just posting your opinion over and over, which you are free to do but that takes the point out of it. 

 

1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

"take a flyer" .... lol.  Remember, these GMs are in the business of winning games so they don't get fired.  Something that's hard to understand for us as Redskins fans, after 20 years of Synder.  The cost to them of bringing in Haskins isn't just the high pick, but also the risk of seasons wasted with him as your starter.

 

You are focusing on a phrase im not building my argument on and thats fine if thats what you want to do. But im simply saying that there is a chance a team wants to bring in a young QB to compete and for a second Haskins wouldn't be a bad option. He doesnt have to be your starter at the position. Especially not for a whole season. We have seen teams do this recently. Its not like im making this up. Teams waste second rounders all the damn time btw. Nothing is guaranteed in the draft. 

 

Im not really sure what your argument is to be honest. But me being a Redskins fan has nothing to do with what im saying. Im talking about trying to get value out of the hypothetical situation of Haskins and Burrows being on the same team. And in that situation, I think I could get a second out of Haskins at least, or multiple firsts out of Burrows. whichever comes first im taking. 

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Trade down and put successful pieces around the QB you do have.

 

If it doesn't work-out, those successful pieces will still be there -- either draft another QB next year or bring in a vet to take advantage of the talent.

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Fortunately, the new staff has some time to evaluate this. I'm sure they'll have a definitive answer by draft time.

 

I highly doubt the Bengals will pass on Burrow, though.

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I don't see Cinci passing on Burrow. I can imagine the Bengals trading the number one to a team desperate to get the next Lawrence Taylor, but if they did that then they would have to ask themselves would they be content with the second or third best QB in the draft and be okay with dealing with the PR backlash of trading away the local town hero.

 

For those reasons, I'm pretty sure the Bengals will go QB.

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29 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Im not really sure what your argument is to be honest. But me being a Redskins fan has nothing to do with what im saying. Im talking about trying to get value out of the hypothetical situation of Haskins and Burrows being on the same team. And in that situation, I think I could get a second out of Haskins at least, or multiple firsts out of Burrows. whichever comes first im taking. 

 

My point is simply that you are overestimating how much teams would be willing to give up for Haskins. 

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Yes.

QB is still not settled.

It's better to take the chance of ending up with 2 good QB's, than chance ending up with none.

Not gonna bank on Haskins "maybe" developing, when we can bank on Burrow, who is so much higher probability of succeeding than the one we got.

We end up with 2 good QB's, we can always trade one. It's a lot better problem to have, than possibly having zero good QB's

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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20 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I don't see Cinci passing on Burrow. I can imagine the Bengals trading the number one to a team desperate to get the next Lawrence Taylor, but if they did that then they would have to ask themselves would they be content with the second or third best QB in the draft and be okay with dealing with the PR backlash of trading away the local town hero.

 

For those reasons, I'm pretty sure the Bengals will go QB.

 

That's why this is a hypothetical, sir.

 

Play along.

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16 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

My point is simply that you are overestimating how much teams would be willing to give up for Haskins. 

 

In this specific moment you may be right. But as you get close to the draft and people assess their needs, teams have done some wild ass ****. And then there is right after the draft if a team did not get their guy. Then you have training cap where injuries happen.

 

What people will give up changes with the level of need and can radically change overnight. Not to mention if you get two teams who target him. You really just never know. From what I have seen, if you are patient - meaning you have both on the roster for a while if needed - you can a pretty nice haul. 

 

 

Edited by goskins10
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14 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

My point is simply that you are overestimating how much teams would be willing to give up for Haskins. 

 

Based onnnnnnnnnn  

Edited by Llevron
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13 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

In this specific moment you may be right. But as you get close to the draft and people assess their needs, teams have done some wild ass ****. And then there is right after the draft if a team did not get their guy. Then you have training cap where injuries happen.

 

What people will give up changes with the level of need and can radically change overnight. Not to mention if you get two teams who target him. You really just never know. From what I have seen, if you are patient - meaning you have both on the roster for a while if needed - you can a pretty nice haul. 

 

Im bad at saying what I mean sometimes but this is basically what I mean. Situations could dictate someone come calling for the dude. And I think a second is fair anyway based on his draft position. I dont think he showed otherwise during the season. And QBs come with a price tag. There could easily be a situation where someone wants this kid for a second. We have seen it before. 

 

Especially with 4 years left on a rookie deal.  

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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

See, this is the issue.

 

You take all of this as "salt" but it's criticism.

 

I don't know how Haskins is going to pan out. But I don't love the guy as a quarterback.

 

But, since his last 6 quarters, I don't hate him, either. I'm open on this whole thing. Completely. Everyone should be. Whatever is best for the team's desires is what's important. 

 

Exactly how I feel about it. I basically don't understand being on either extreme of the argument on Haskins. In general his performance improved with each start, but we're talking about going from horrific to capable starter. I think the fans are treating those 6 quarters like he played at a top 5 QB level. And we can't be sure about the lack of work ethic whispers but that's one of the worst things you can hear for a young QB. 

 

Haskins is still basically a question mark for me. Burrow on the other hand looks like a franchise QB and someone with a pretty high floor. A Murray/Rosen situation isn't great but I'd take Burrow. 

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1 hour ago, BurgundyBooger said:

Trade down and put successful pieces around the QB you do have.

 

If it doesn't work-out, those successful pieces will still be there -- either draft another QB next year or bring in a vet to take advantage of the talent.

Yes, trade with Oakland or Miami for three 1sts and two 2nds.....draft the best safety, impact LB and WR you can get...sign a free agent fall back option like Andy Dalton or Fitzmagic....

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Yes!! There is no more valuable player than a potential franchise QB!!! If Haskins is a legit QB, he will bring back a #1, if not...then it's no brainer to take Burrows!!

I am not opposed too trading back with Young available, LT tackle is a more pressing need, we have 2 good D-ends as of right now!!!

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2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't know who will be the better pro. But this argument is kind of a misnomer.

 

Nor does anyone at this point. Which is why I would not take Burrows when we have Haskins with the promise and development he showed late last year.

 

In the (unlikely) event the Bengals pass on Burrows and take Young I would hold an auction for that 2nd overall pick. I would not want to move back too far though.

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QB is the most important position in sports.   If young is off the board, and burrow checks all the boxes through the draft process, don't let a speculative "what might be if everything goes right" for Haskins, prevent you from drafting a better prospect. 

 

How many GMs passed on marino in the 1983 draft bc they convinced themselves what they had in house would develop into a better QB than they actually did?  Really Pittsburgh, you thought Mark Malone was the answer??

 

I believe burrow will prove to be the better prospect by April, and will prove to be the better NFL QB when all is said and done.  Then trade Haskins for the best pick you can get, even if it's a 3rd round pick.

 

But it's also not that simple and straightforward.  After the draft evaluation process, how do you compare burrow, Herbert, and tua?  If they are comparable, what kind of trade offers are you getting to trade back and select another QB?   If we think Herbert is a similar prospect, could we trade down twice as teams chase burrow and tua, and get a ton of picks and still land a QB we really like?  You have to listen to those offers.

 

But my general philosophy is when you draft at the top, and you can get a top flight prospect without having to trade up, you take him, and don't go chasing riskier prospects by trading back.  I'd rather have one elite prospect than several lower tier guys with much higher bust rates.

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1 minute ago, KillBill26 said:

But my general philosophy is when you draft at the top, and you can get a top flight prospect without having to trade up, you take him, and don't go chasing riskier prospects by trading back.  I'd rather have one elite prospect than several lower tier guys with much higher bust rates.

 

This I agree with. Which is why when all said and done I think we end up picking Chase Young 2nd overall.

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Just now, MartinC said:

 

This I agree with. Which is why when all said and done I think we end up picking Chase Young 2nd overall.

 

Not in this hypothetical you don't.

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