The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[KillBill26]

8 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Here are some figures at WR per Spotrac Market Value. FYI I expect Godwin and Golladay to get tagged. 
 

- Robinson: 4/80 - 20m APY

- Golladay: 5/95 - 19m APY

- Godwin: 4/69 - 17m APY

- Fuller: 4/68 - 17m APY

- JuJu: 5/78 - 16m APY

- Samuel: 4/48 - 12m APY

- Davis: 2/20 - 10m APY

- M. Jones: 4/38 - 10m APY

- Watkins: 2/20 - 10m APY

- Pascal: 4/32 - 8m APY

- Ross: 1/4 - 4m APY 

I'm a samuels guy, and for the five listed above him, golladay, fuller, and juju are absolutely not for me.  Godwin might be worth it, but that's a lot for a guy who had more drops last week than samuels did all season.  A Rob is a beast, but 20 mil is steep.  I admit davis may be the best value on there, which hardens my belief that a Rob is too expensive.  For just 2 mil more, we could get BOTH samuels and corey davis.  Does anyone believe adding just A Rob would be better than samuels and davis?  That's why we need to pass on A Rob, bc whether it's those 2 guys are not, that's just one example of how you can get two above average starters for the same total price.

[CommDownMan]

https://www.fanduel.com/theduel/posts/allen-robinson-has-had-the-worst-quarterbacks-dating-back-to-college-01ep7ec0krr8

 

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/10/09/has-any-good-receiver-been-more-cursed-with-bad-quarterbacks-than-allen-robinson/

 

Several occasions I feel like he's made his frustrations know about QB play.  I will be shocked if Robinson comes here as presently built.

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, jsharrin55 said:

https://www.fanduel.com/theduel/posts/allen-robinson-has-had-the-worst-quarterbacks-dating-back-to-college-01ep7ec0krr8

 

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/10/09/has-any-good-receiver-been-more-cursed-with-bad-quarterbacks-than-allen-robinson/

 

Several occasions I feel like he's made his frustrations know about QB play.  I will be shocked if Robinson comes here as presently built.

 

We aren't going to be, As presently built. We definitely have a plan at QB and it is our #1 offseason priority. I'd love Robinson here. Robinson and Stafford, FTW. 

[KDawg]

My feelings: If David hits the market... get him. Don’t hesitate. Get him. Pay him. Then figure out what you have left at that point and go after the WR you’re most comfortable with.

 

I’d bring in Davis and Alex Erickson (Cincy) as slot competition. I kick the tires on Watkins to see what he’d cost as well as Hilton. If we can sign all 3 and they all want to come in, I take that over ARob ALL day. Shotgun approach baby!

 

Problem is that all 3 likely wouldn’t want to come. Erickson would be easy. He’s done minimal work in his career.

 

John Ross is another guy to look at. 
 

then draft one. If we even add two receivers... even Erickson is an upgrade (though he did fumble a punt return this season and it was soul crushing... so I’m a bit more hesitant than I would have been). 
 

Get two FA guys. Three if you can via the shotgun approach and add a rookie.

 

Thats 4 new guys + McLaurin + Harmon can show what he can do + Cam Sims gets a chance. That ensures we wind up with 6 NFL receivers. 

[Koolblue13]

I'm pretty torn on the WR approach. I hated the Bruce McReplacement approach, but that's how I've leaned in this.

 

I absolutely agree with @Skinsinparadise analogy of a $35 steak vs a $28 burger and I do like the idea of hammering our holes closed.

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I’d rather pay $35 for a steak than spend $28 for a high end burger.

You do come out with some good ones 

 

I’m apprehensive blowing a load of cash at WR, and RB for that matter, but the precedent was set last year with Cooper, to a degree, I guess. 
 

If the cap lands at a 175mil base, all these moves aren’t possible. If it comes in 20mil higher, which has been put out there, I think Danny Boy is going deep into those pockets. 
 

 

[Koolblue13]

If that extra $20 mill gets put on there, ARob is our bonus.

[bakedtater1]

If we can't get DeShaun Watson in free agency then I don't want any other quarterback in free agency the Dolphins would have the best bet to land DeShaun Watson anyway so let's just lock Taylor down and name him the starter huh?

[CommanderDOOM]

On 1/14/2021 at 2:27 AM, -JB- said:

....Collins is clearly better when he plays near the line of scrimmage.  Kam Curl should be the starting SS going forward...

 

Having them on the field together could help take the D to the next level if Collins hasn't developed tackleitis in his time off.

 

10 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

I'm a samuels guy....Corey Davis....

 

I see u.....but also Robinson is a level up from those guys. When playing the good teams who also have above average 2nd/3rd guys......

 

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I absolutely agree with @Skinsinparadise analogy of a $35 steak vs a $28 burger and I do like the idea of hammering our holes closed.

 

Hmmmm.Damn. A $35 steak is just a good or big steak. A $28 burger better make the Zombie pop-lock.

[carex]

11 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

If we can't get DeShaun Watson in free agency then I don't want any other quarterback in free agency the Dolphins would have the best bet to land DeShaun Watson anyway so let's just lock Taylor down and name him the starter huh?

 

cause naming a 1 game wonder a starting QB is a massive mistake.  I want him on the team, i want him competing, I do NOT want him handed the starting job

 

Honestly, with people saying there's six 1st round quality QBs out there there should a couple available to us at 19 if we really was to draft a QB

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Josh Reynolds is an interesting name as well. He’s been quietly solid for the Rams and seems to always step up whenever Kupp misses time. He’d probably be on the 6-8m side. But he’s a solid addition if we strike out at the top or decide to add 1-2 mid tier guys. I don’t advocate for him by any means. I’d rather have one of the top guys. But he could be an option. 

[DWinzit]

What if Farley or Surtain were there at 19, is there anyone that would be disappointed with them being selected?

I mean we have talked of the dropping to 19 of a QB, LB, TE, OT, WR, RB, DL...why not the slight chance one of these two drop? 

 

Edit: Meant to post this in the draft thread

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

What if Farley or Surtain were there at 19, is there anyone that would be disappointed with them being selected?

I mean we have talked of the dropping to 19 of a QB, LB, TE, OT, WR, RB, DL...why not the slight chance one of these two drop? 

 

Edit: Meant to post this in the draft thread

 

I'd be cool with it but I doubt it happens. 

1 hour ago, carex said:

 

cause naming a 1 game wonder a starting QB is a massive mistake.  I want him on the team, i want him competing, I do NOT want him handed the starting job

 

 

 

That's a good summary for my position on this, too. 

[KillBill26]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

What if Farley or Surtain were there at 19, is there anyone that would be disappointed with them being selected?

I mean we have talked of the dropping to 19 of a QB, LB, TE, OT, WR, RB, DL...why not the slight chance one of these two drop? 

 

Edit: Meant to post this in the draft thread

Surtain would be great value at 19.  Farley has a lot of upside, but had some injuries, most concerning back issues in 2019.  He didnt have as much sustained success in college like surtain did, so farley is a bit riskier, and I'd rather go in a different direction considering who I suspect will be on the board at that time.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

If we can't get DeShaun Watson in free agency then I don't want any other quarterback in free agency the Dolphins would have the best bet to land DeShaun Watson anyway so let's just lock Taylor down and name him the starter huh?

 

You had me till you said name Taylor the starter. Sign him and let him compete is fine, along with Allen and whoever else they bring. And don't get me wrong, I am Ok going cheap at QB this year to add more pieces and then go get the long term solution next year if it's not here.

 

But naming Taylor the starter off a game and a 1 Q? That is not a good plan at all. Fortunately Ron has already stated his mistake last season was naming thestarter. So it looks like whoever comes in will be competing for a job which is how it should be. Everyone competes and the players that give the team the best chance of winning play. SImple as that. 

[Redskins Reparations]

Regarding Deshaun Watson...Amazing talent but do you really want a player who is going to the media and expressing his desire to be traded due to not being involved in the GM/Coach hiring process?  I believe Coach Rivera could reign him in but in my opinion it’s a very bad look for Watson.

[Est.1974]

29 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said:

Regarding Deshaun Watson...Amazing talent but do you really want a player who is going to the media and expressing his desire to be traded due to not being involved in the GM/Coach hiring process?  I believe Coach Rivera could reign him in but in my opinion it’s a very bad look for Watson.

Yes if that player is Watson.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

You do come out with some good ones 

 

I’m apprehensive blowing a load of cash at WR, and RB for that matter, but the precedent was set last year with Cooper, to a degree, I guess. 
 

If the cap lands at a 175mil base, all these moves aren’t possible. If it comes in 20mil higher, which has been put out there, I think Danny Boy is going deep into those pockets. 
 

 

 

I think you are going to see more backloaded contracts than usual for that reason. 

 

My point is more about philosophy than anything else.    I am against the tact of hey yeah we didn't pursue Calais Campbell but we got both McClain and McGee for an even cheaper price than Campbell alone.  Jay sort of made that comment more or less when asked and famously struggled to recall McGee's name.  Then I recall Bruce smugly talking about losing receivers in FA but got T. Pryor and Brian Quick for a better price.

 

I think you either get a big time player or try to be smart in bargain shopping.  I hated overpaying for medicore-good players.   If you can get a good player at a good price, that's cool.  But that's not easy to do in FA.  Some good players tend to get paid in FA like they are stars.   We've been burned so much on that:  Josh Morgan, Andre Roberts, Culliver, McClain, Hatcher, Pea, Richardson, all the various safeties we've brought in.  All overpaid to a certain extent, all busts or close enough.  And i liked some albeit not all of those signings at the time but I think I've learned my lesson.  😀

 

IMO swing for the fences, get a big time player if he can fit the budget.  But I think paying 16 million to someone like JuJu ruins a roster.  If you are paying Calais Campbell who was a super star then, super star money, that's fine.  I hate paying decent level players, borderline superstar money.  I am willing to pay a few extra bucks over market value for a high end steak.  But I am not an overpay for multiple burgers kind of guy.  😀

 

For me I can sign Robinson and David and then call it a day.  I don't want overpaying medium level players to fill that gap.  When we had a receiver problem similar to now back during Gibbs 2, they overpaid Randle El and Brandon Lloyd (gave up picks for Lloyd).   It burned them.  I'd rather shoot high or not at all if the opportunity doesn't present itself. 

 

Also I think this team can benefit more from a killer player or two versus a 3-4 decent ones.    We had good players on the D line, yet our defense was ranked 26th in 2019.  We add a great player to the mix and it had a domino effect.  Same thing happened to SF.    Cooley talked about this some on podcasts about the value of adding great players to the locker room.  Their style of play becomes contagious and it builds confidence. 

 

I like for example Corey Davis but he's not the type teams have to game plan to stop.  You add Allen Robinson and then all of sudden you have a pick your poison dilemma for a defensive coordinator.  Some defensive coordinators have shared the offenses that keep them up at night have multiple playmakers they have to game plan for.   One game breaker can often be shut down.  We don't have that dynamic now.  Adding a dude like that might have a domino effect similar to what Chase provided.  Granted we'd need to fix the Qb spot, too. 😀

[Est.1974]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think you are going to see more backloaded contracts than usual for that reason. 

Agree. 
 

In 2020 the cap was 198mil. Normal circumstances 2021 would be 210/212mil, 2022 maybe 225mil.

 

We have no idea as fans what the plan looks like now, but inside NFL front offices they will have an idea. Only way to budget and produce baseline plans for the medium term. So I think we are in GREAT shape to work the cap to our advantage.

 

The Roullier deal, 4/40 with a 2021 cap hit of less than 5mil. Ideal.

 

Now I’m not a big fan of paying free agent RBs money, but if Ron wants Jones and he gets that kind of deal, Hell I will live with that as the 2021 hit will be no more than 5mil.

 

Once the Smith contract clears off the books, and the Collins one in 2022, we’re rotating those deals through the cap nicely.

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Agree. 
 

In 2020 the cap was 198mil. Normal circumstances 2021 would be 210/212mil, 2022 maybe 225mil.

 

We have no idea as fans what the plan looks like now, but inside NFL front offices they will have an idea. Only way to budget and produce baseline plans for the medium term. So I think we are in GREAT shape to work the cap to our advantage.

 

The Roullier deal, 4/40 with a 2021 cap hit of less than 5mil. Ideal.

 

Now I’m not a big fan of paying free agent RBs money, but if Ron wants Jones and he gets that kind of deal, Hell I will live with that as the 2021 hit will be no more than 5mil.

 

Once the Smith contract clears off the books, and the Collins one in 2022, we’re rotating those deals through the cap nicely.

I’m really not on the “spend for a RB and WR” train... but if we’re going to spend those positions would be a ridiculous upgrade with Jones and Robinson. I do worry about the cap portion with backloaded contracts and our guys coming due... and eventually a QB to pay...

 

I’d prefer a rookie back to be the bellcow. Robinson is CLOSE to being an acceptable spending to me if we get the extra 20M, but I’d rather snag two good ones instead of one high end one if that’s possible.

 

Reynolds and Erickson are two lower tier FAs that improve us in my opinion, too. Retooling the WR group would go a long way.

 

But, the priority is getting a good inside backer. I’d pass on almost everything else besides that. And I’d try to find a way to get the QB done as well. Those are the two areas I’d spend the money IF we’re going to spend it and IF we can get the cap right moving forward. 
 

I think we can sort out RB in FA, WR in draft and FA with lower cost guys, and FS in FA.

 

OL we can figure out in either place. Even lower round picks in some of those spots are going to be an upgrade for us. QB and ILB are the priority in my eyes.

[Bacon]

1 hour ago, Redskins Reparations said:

Regarding Deshaun Watson...Amazing talent but do you really want a player who is going to the media and expressing his desire to be traded due to not being involved in the GM/Coach hiring process?  I believe Coach Rivera could reign him in but in my opinion it’s a very bad look for Watson.

 

Have you been following the situation at all? The Texans' front office is an absolute trainwreck. He has every right to be frustrated and voice that perspective. It took him four seasons of being treated like he was expendable to speak up. 

[Redskins Reparations]

13 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

Have you been following the situation at all? The Texans' front office is an absolute trainwreck. He has every right to be frustrated and voice that perspective. It took him four seasons of being treated like he was expendable to speak up. 

Only briefly...JJ Watt’s recent comments during a recent press conference started to shed light on the situation in Houston for me.  Outside of these two events I am not familiar with the climate of their organization.  The only reason I am hesitant about bringing him in is Coach Rivera’s goal of changing the culture of our own organization.  
 

Deshaun Watson has every right to speak his mind to the media but my concern is him wanting to be involved in their GM hire.  I am not sure if it’s common in the NFL for players to be involved in hires within organizations?

 

I am ALL IN on Coach Rivera and truly believe he will bring in players who will “trust the process”.  Maybe I am suffering from PTSD due to the routine drama that has plagued Redskins Park for the last two decades to be overly concerned about bringing in an player who voices his displeasure through the media.  The DC sports media would feast!

 

That being said Watson is elite and I would LOVE him here but his comments to the media concerns me.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I’m really not on the “spend for a RB and WR” train... but if we’re going to spend those positions would be a ridiculous upgrade with Jones and Robinson. I do worry about the cap portion with backloaded contracts and our guys coming due... and eventually a QB to pay...

 

I’d prefer a rookie back to be the bellcow. Robinson is CLOSE to being an acceptable spending to me if we get the extra 20M, but I’d rather snag two good ones ins

Don’t necessarily disagree. I think the key is that we have options. Lots of them. And as you have said before, it’s all quite fluid now, especially at QB. But we should be able to aggressively resolve our ‘needs’ this offseason in some capacity, and by a variation of ways.

 

Just need a strong, balanced offseason.

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They were willing to aim high for Cooper last time.  If they have the same approach -- Robinson IMO is a better receiver than Cooper.  A clear peg better IMO. 

Our previous brain trust passed on going after him to sign that guy who’s name I don’t remember from Seattle who was never healthy and then he wasn’t healthy here.  
 

This group is smarter than the previous group.  Though in fairness a gnat with a learning disability is smarter than the previous regime. 

[86 Snyder]

I'd give Houson our next three 1st round picks for Watson, plus a sweetener or two.  Add Watson, sign ARob, and this team is ready is compete for a Super Bowl starting next season.  I'm not even a little bit kidding.