Game of Thrones Season 8

[No Excuses]

24 minutes ago, bearrock said:

They used madness as a deus ex machina.  After laying all that ground work to set up the heroine's fall in a complex way, they said "oops, madness".  You can use the loneliness, the paranoia, the grief, the vengeance to set up Dany to go over to atrocity and fall in a believable way.  Destroying the city to hunt down Cersei would have been a plausible way to go.

 

The Lannister/Golden Company army not surrendering and putting up more of a fight within the cities borders would have accomplished the same thing as well.

 

We went from "her forces are decimated" to them ravaging this supposedly great mercenary group, Euron who took down like 3 of her armies by himself and the Lannisters in like 5 minutes. And to really drive home the mad queen point, they have her burn down the city after surrender. It's just bad writing of a fairly interesting plot.

 

And I think that will be how this show is remembered. A great show that ended like a deflated souffle.

[Chachie]

25 minutes ago, bearrock said:

They used madness as a deus ex machina.  After laying all that ground work to set up the heroine's fall in a complex way, they said "oops, madness".  You can use the loneliness, the paranoia, the grief, the vengeance to set up Dany to go over to atrocity and fall in a believable way.  Destroying the city to hunt down Cersei would have been a plausible way to go.

 

 

I feel like I have been seeing some "Mad Queen" lurking just below the surface all along. I have not been surprised or disappointed at the change in Dany's character this season. After all, her father and her brother would indicate a healthy dose of vengeful "madness" being a part of who she is anyway.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'll play this pretty straightforward for now. Later, I'll explain why you are all dum dums specifically.

 

1. Khaleesi went from being a literal prize for a savage to an actual goddess in remarkably short order. Since she walked out of the fire, people have bowed to her like a goddess. Happened with the Dothraki. Happened in the boring city of Qarth. Happened with the slaves. Happened again with the Dorthraki. And then three of the most powerful families in Westeros came to her and pledge their loyalty to her.

 

From the moment, she stepped foot in Westeros, it's been nothing but politics, plots, bad advice, and bull****. She sacrificed a dragon, her most loyal friend, and most of her to save this miserable continent....and everyone immediately moved on. And basically chose a dude over her. Then she loses another dragon and her best friend, finds out that the guy everyone likes has a better claim than she does, and learns that this seems to matter.

 

So, she said **** these people.

 

2. it makes perfect sense. It happened too suddenly. Basically since the beginning of last season everything is happening too quickly. I think the last two seasons would have been vastly improved if there had simply been an extra episode in between pretty much all of them.

 

3. This simple fact is the fault of Martin. This story is unendable unless you take drastic short cuts. I just said they needed another season and a half to get to the point where this **** starts to make sense.

 

4. They can still create moments. Tyrion and Jamie damn near made me cry.

 

5. Cersei walking past the Cleganes was the highlight of the series. That moment cannot be topped.

 

6. I was not a fan of Jamie returning to Cersei. Until they saw each other. God bless those actors, because I literally thought, "I hope they get away and have a

quiet life somewhere." Her line reading of "I don't like this" was tremendous.

 

7. Oh, I thought the battle made perfect sense. Assuming that being aware of the scorpions made them easier to dodge, the first blast of dragon fire pretty much ends the battle. You aren't going to be standing there aiming those things at a weapon of mass destruction. It begs the question, why didn't see just conquer King's Landing when she got there in the first place?

 

8. Do you think Cersei got a receipt for the Golden Company?

 

9. How many people in Westeros have died since Jon Arryn died? Is Sansa's crazy aunt the greatest mass murderer in history?

[Mooka]

Problem is they just dropped the mad king storyline. (and 3 eyed raven stuff) 

 

They were leading to that event having more of a direct tie-in to the main plot and characters. i.e. Bran's visions and time travelling.

 

Would've helped explain if the mad king was actually crazy, if he descended into it slowly or if Bran Hodor'd him.

 

I suspect Bran storyline is not done though. Might get a snippet of Bran explaining the dead aren't actually defeated or he has more 3 eyed raven stuff to do. (possibly hint or lead to some spinoff series ideas)

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

15 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

The Lannister/Golden Company army not surrendering and putting up more of a fight within the cities borders would have accomplished the same thing as well.

 

We went from "her forces are decimated" to them ravaging this supposedly great mercenary group, Euron who took down like 3 of her armies by himself and the Lannisters in like 5 minutes. And to really drive home the mad queen point, they have her burn down the city after surrender. It's just bad writing of a fairly interesting plot.

 

And I think that will be how this show is remembered. A great show that ended like a deflated souffle.

 

I think a lot of this can be fixed in the last episode. They've never really established Dany's resentment of the people of Westeros, but it makes total sense. One scene of her ranting about how she expected to be treated like a liberator would have helped a lot.

 

They are big on showing and not telling. That's good storytelling if you have the space to do it. In this incredibly condensed end-game, they have to be more specific.

[NoCalMike]

Khaleesi going Mad Queen is fine, but the way it was executed seemed forced, rushed, and against everything she had shown herself to be up to that point.  Not to mention, she had already won.  The throne was basically hers for the taking, her enemies had conceded defeat.  

 

Now they have kind of backed themselves into a corner for the finale.  Either Khaleesi sits on the throne and rules the Kingdom(s) as the Mad Queen, or she has to die 5 minutes after her forces have won the war and placed her on the throne.  

[PF Chang]

She brought up the former slaves freeing themselves/rebelling as compared to the King's Landing people, but I think that's all we got for her resentment or disrespect of the common Westeros people. 

[bearrock]

Jon kills Dany.  Jon abdicates throne.  Someone stupid out of left field sits on the throne while Vary's vision of wise advisers ruling becomes reality.  So basically Joffrey with a better King and better (kinder?) advisers.  The ending seems pretty much telegraphed at this point.

[visionary]

8 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

She brought up the former slaves freeing themselves/rebelling as compared to the King's Landing people, but I think that's all we got for her resentment or disrespect of the common Westeros people. 

Well we saw how people in the North treated her.  I do think we should have gotten more examples mistrust and fear of her from other areas to really sell it though.  Maybe some letters or some dignitaries showing disdain or thinly veiled terror hidden under clearly false congratulations. 

 

 

I think we have yet yet to see Varys’ other foot come down though.

Edited May 13, 2019 by visionary

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

I dunno man. I always thought she was crazy. Hold 3 stone eggs and being burned is insanity but she got plot armor. Is thinking you’re fire proof really more crazy than thinking you will become a dragon?

 

while I agree her descent to madness could have been done better I knew this **** was crazy from that one episode where she was outside that merchant village and demanded to be let in. Unreasonable. 

[mark327]

16 minutes ago, bearrock said:

Jon kills Dany.  Jon abdicates throne.  Someone stupid out of left field sits on the throne while Vary's vision of wise advisers ruling becomes reality.  So basically Joffrey with a better King and better (kinder?) advisers.  The ending seems pretty much telegraphed at this point.

If this is the way it plays out wouldn't Gentry be the rightful heir to the throne? 

[Hersh]

The might as well have the mad queen burn down the entire continent. Like she has to get Sansa and burn Winterfell. Then fast forward 2 years and Arya shows up in another's face and kills Dany, then tries to kill the Dragon, but the Dragon can tell it's not  really Dany so he eats Arya, learns to speak and rules KL. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Hersh

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

[Springfield]

I do enjoy how stratified the responses to the last season have been.

 

I do enjoy this show, it’s pretty great.

[visionary]

While I think they could have done some things better with Dany.  I’m not sure there was a better way to end Jamie and Cersei, other than having him not die and go back to Brienne.  

 

If he’s going to die with Cersei as I assume his ending was planned, is it better for him to die angrily strangling the (pregnant) woman he’s loved (possibly while ranting out names of people he thinks/knows she’s slept with, as he did throughout the last book) most of his life, or to die holding her in his arms and in some sort of peace? 

Edited May 13, 2019 by visionary

[Warhead36]

My issue isn't Dany's descent into madness, but how rushed it was. Honestly the final season needed a couple more episodes. People whine about the dialogue heavy and character development focused episodes but its important and yesterday's episode shows why.

[Cooked Crack]

I think they should have went with Jaime about to choke Cersei. Dany rolls up on them thinks it's an embrace and burns them both up. The Jaime arc is still one of redemption and people get the death of Cersei they lusted for. 

[visionary]

Yeah, I think a couple of more episodes might have helped, although I see people talk about they should have had more seasons and I think that would have been hard to do without risking losing important cast members. 

[Cooked Crack]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

My issue isn't Dany's descent into madness, but how rushed it was. Honestly the final season needed a couple more episodes. People whine about the dialogue heavy and character development focused episodes but its important and yesterday's episode shows why.

Yep. If they went the route of just burning the castle it would have worked. A big leap to burning everything didn't make sense.

[Gamebreaker]

Still don't understand how the Dothraki keep multiplying their numbers after being completely decimated in The Long Night. I mean, we saw like 6 of those guys running for their life at the beginning of that battle. Yet at Kings Landing, they're are like a third of the Golden Company. 

[Popeman38]

2 hours ago, No Excuses said:

 

You aren't the only one who predicted a bittersweet ending.

 

But giving us this story arc in two episodes at the end of the show is just bad.

 

Dany going mad is fine. Dany going mad for the last 100 minutes of the show is awful writing.

 

Jon/Starks freeing the world is fine. Jon potentially freeing the world from a Mad Queen in the last 60 minutes of the show is going to be awful.

 

On paper, there is nothing wrong with the direction of this show. The entire problem is that they condensed really pivotal stories and character arcs into a few episodes and as a result, the storytelling has just been awful.

Dany has been going mad slowly since season 6. This wasn't a 100 minute descent into madness.  I think some of the issues identified here are people being SO invested in the characters over  the last 9 years.  I binged the series in advance of season 8, and to me the arc has been clear since season 6: Dany will be the Mad Queen and Jon Snow will reluctantly take the throne.  There has been TONS of foreshadowing of Dany's descent into madness, and it hasn't just happened this season. 

[visionary]

7 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Still don't understand how the Dothraki keep multiplying their numbers after being completely decimated in The Long Night. I mean, we saw like 6 of those guys running for their life at the beginning of that battle. Yet at Kings Landing, they're are like a third of the Golden Company. 

Yeah, that was a little silly.  Although I think they said previously that half their forces (not a hard number though) were lost in the battle for Winterfell.  

 

There's also tons of Unsullied in the next episode.  This show has always been a little iffy on troop numbers to put it mildly.

Edited May 13, 2019 by visionary

[Gamebreaker]

Just now, visionary said:

Yeah, that was a little silly.  Although I think they said previously that half their forces (not a hard number though) were lost in the battle for Winterfell.  

 

Just bad storytelling when you have to explain that in interviews or behind the scenes stuff after the episode. I'm sure it's just BS anyway, what did these battle hardened Dorthraki do? Rushed the army of the dead and then played dead in the darkness and stayed there until the battle was over? They know they can't explain it, so they don't go into details. 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

Here is how the show will end

 

Dany will turn on Jon Snow per Grey Worm , If anyone caught the scene where Jon calls back his troops as the slaughter of unarmed Lannisters begins Grey worm looks back at Jon with that stupid look on his face. Dany will sentence Jon to death by fire but Jon snow being a Targeryan will be unharmed by the fire. He will then charge dany and plunge a sword through her at the same time Arya will fly out of a Dark corner and plunge her Valyeran steel dagger through the heart of Drogon the dragon. Jon will declare every house is now free folk and no king shall rule over westeros....

   The End

 

 

                                                                                                                         

Edited May 13, 2019 by JoeJacobyHOForRIOT

[Hersh]

27 minutes ago, visionary said:

While I think they could have done some things better with Dany.  I’m not sure there was a better way to end Jamie and Cersei, other than having him not die and go back to Brienne.  

 

If he’s going to die with Cersei as I assume his ending was planned, is it better for him to die angrily strangling the (pregnant) woman he’s loved (possibly while ranting out names of people he thinks/knows she’s slept with, as he did throughout the last book) most of his life, or to die holding her in his arms and in some sort of peace? 

 

I think they did a good job with Jaime going back. People act like love doesn't make them the dumbest things ever. Jaime was always going back and ending up Brienne would have been lame.