Game of Thrones Season 8

[bearrock]

4 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Her first impulse has always been to burn or butcher her enemies. 

 

viserys

mirri maz durr burned alive

Locking Daxos in his vault

Crucifying the masters 

burning the high borns and feeding them to her dragons under the pyramid

she immediately wants to burn the slavers bay cities to the ground 

She burns all the Khals 

she burns the Tarlys 

she first wants to burn the red keep

 

but yeah, killing innocents is not earned and out of left field. It makes no sense with her arc at this point 

 

 

 

Exactly.  If she drew and quartered Cersei after she kneels or something, that would show her viciousness while still in keeping with her character.  But she has gone out of her way to help and save those she felt were being wronged.  Now she's gonna burn down entire King's Landing to kill the innocent people toiling under Cersei's tyranny?!?!?

[No Excuses]

4 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Her first impulse has always been to burn or butcher her enemies. 

 

viserys

mirri maz durr burned alive

Locking Daxos in his vault

Crucifying the masters 

burning the high borns and feeding them to her dragons under the pyramid

she immediately wants to burn the slavers bay cities to the ground 

She burns all the Khals 

she burns the Tarlys 

she first wants to burn the red keep

 

but yeah, killing innocents is not earned and out of left field. It makes no sense with her arc at this point 

 

 

 

She thinks fear is the only way she’ll be accepted. Probably mad that word of Jon’s claim to the throne will always undermine her, even if he denies the throne. 

 

Burning down the city will do that. But still, I wish we would have gotten more episodes of mad Dany than the last 2 hrs of the show. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

17 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

so its pretty clear that Bran is confirmed as worthless?

 

Yes. Despite being hand picked by the 3 eyed raven to replace him. 

 

Jojen also specifically tells him:

 

“You saw the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead. The Nights Watch can't stop them, the Kings of Westeros and all their armies can't stop them."

 

He also says to Bran when describing what he’s seen in his dream:

 

“the only thing that matters. You”  

 

Of course all this means nothing since Bran doesn’t contribute anything to the WW fight. He does absolutely nothing. Did the 3ER want Bran because of his ability to sit under a weirwood tree? Yet again, if the 3ER never summons Bran at all, he never dies by the Nk. So what was the point if Bran has nothing to do with stopping the Long Night?

 

They just completely bailed on Bran’s plot and purpose. Just another story arc they dropped off a cliff for a quick ending with as little thought as possible. 

 

3 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

She thinks fear is the only way she’ll be accepted. Probably mad that word of Jon’s claim to the throne will always undermine her, even if he denies the throne. 

 

Burning down the city will do that. But still, I wish we would have gotten more episodes of mad Dany than the last 2 hrs of the show. 

 

It still doesn’t add up. Everybody was ****ing terrified of her before she burned a single civilian.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Voice_of_Reason]

1. I think I said in an earlier post, "Fly really high over the iron fleet, come right down on them and burn the hell out of them."  I think that happened.

 

2. Tyrian saying, "The city will fall tomorrow, I defended the city, nobody knows it better than me" indicates that he has told Danny and company exactly what to do.  Which seems to be "fly really high, burn the iron fleet, then fly along the walls and get the scorpions, and then it's all over. In order to make that line pay off and make Tyrian look somewhat useful, they needed a scene with him telling folks what to do to take the city. That didn't happen.  

 

3. I do kinda see why they had to equalize forces a little bit.  3 dragons plus the entire unsullied, Terrells, Dornish, Dorthraqui, etc. would have taken the city in about 3 seconds.  

 

4.  I guess the valenquar prophesy kindof came true?  Jamie's hands were on Cercei's neck?  

 

5. The whole Jamie arc is just terrible.  The whole thing.  @Momma There Goes That Man is completely right.  He basically destroyed his reputation to save the common people, but then says he doesn't care about them?

 

6. I don't buy Danny burning the whole city to the ground for no reason.  Sorry.  I can see "mad queen" going straight after the Red Keep and going after Cercei for killing Messandei, but there's NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING in her character's arc that says she would roast innocents for the hell of it.  She is the "breaker of chains" for God's sake.  She rose to power by helping the people who can't help themselves.

 

7. I thought the way they followed Arya through the carnage was good.

 

8.  Grey Worm just wants to kill as many people as he can for revenge, and I get that, but it looked like all the people he was trying to kill were Lannister soldiers.

 

9. I personally thought Clegane Bowl sucked.  I figured they would both die together somehow.  However fighting an undead zombie-man wasn't a fair fight, and I personally found it stupid.  I wish it was just man vs. man, and let them go at it. 

 

10. Jamie killing Euron was fitting, but really kinda like tying up a loose end.  Again, another main character happens to swim to a beach after their ship is destroyed...  

 

Was it entertaining?  Yeah.  But I just don't buy AT ALL the premise that Danny would burn the entire city for the hell of it, so it leaves me kindof lacking.

 

Sansa better damn hope Ayra/Jon kill Danny, because if not, Danny's coming for her for telling Tyrian about Jon's identity.

 

Btw, Varys is not a merman. 

 

I hope GRRM finishes the books adn somebody re-does seasons 5-x with the source material, assuming it's better than this spectacle first blah-blah-blah.  As long as it's not all White Walker focused, because that would bore me.

 

The big winner in all of this MIGHT be GRRM IF he actually finishes the story and it's good.  

 

I also feel supremely bad for Emelia Clarke.  I thought she did exactly what she needed to in both the last 2 episodes, and the writing completely let her down.  

 

Maisie Williams is a bad ass and should have a very good career.   Kit Harrington does an awesome job playing dumbfounded.  As long as he sticks with that, he'll be great.  Otherwise, he needs to retire and just bone Rose Leslie all the time.  

 

 

 

[visionary]

9 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Bran can redeem himself by warging into Drogon. 

That would be really cool.  I'd love to see that, but I don't think I'd bet on it. 

 

That said...how else would they stop Drogon if Dany dies?   Hmmm.  Does Jon talk him down? 

 

 

I do hope we get more from Bran, Briene, Sansa, and others next episode.  

[bearrock]

2 minutes ago, visionary said:

She wasn't there yet.  She still believed in her destiny.  I don't think she does anymore.  

 

Well, D&D can't have it both ways.  "Oh, Dany's always been a bit crazy.  Look at her reaction after Drogo kills her brother!"  "Ah, see, you don't recognize the psycho crazy Dany now, cause she wasn't full on crazy before"

In her talks with Selmy, there is genuine desire to rule justly and wisely.  And also evidenced by her struggling to do right in Mereen (which I would say was more trying circumstance than sacking King's Landing).  She jumps from that to slaughtering an entire city's denizens who just surrendered?  I just don't see how those two characters can be reconciled.   

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

It still doesn’t add up. Everybody was ****ing terrified of her before she burned a single civilian.

 

Literally all she had to do was roast the Iron Fleet and the scorpions, land Drogon outside of the city, and that's enough fear to start a "dynasty." (I want it said like Tywin...)

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Wow. I wasn’t a fan of last week or the recent direction of the show but I thought this was redeemed it all. 

 

Dany snapped. She went mad. Something about her birthright didn’t sit with me. She started wanting to earn it by freeing people but it always felt contrived. Like she had to do it to earn her birthright. And along the way she made some decisions that definitely made you question whether she was capable of being a good ruler. 

 

And now we know the answer. And stop trying to explain it. She went mad. It’s in her blood. Flip a coin. It’s been alluded to many times. Dany is one side and Jon is the other. 

 

This will end with Jon taking the throne and Dany dying somehow. And Jon will relinquish the throne and free the 7 kingdoms and go north to live freely. It’s his destiny. Aegon conquered and Aegon will free. 

 

The north was always a free people. They knelt to the Targs reluctantly. Dany will break the wheel but not herself. But by her actions. 

 

This is setting up for a very satisfying conclusion. This episode was a 10

[bearrock]

5 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

She thinks fear is the only way she’ll be accepted. Probably mad that word of Jon’s claim to the throne will always undermine her, even if he denies the throne. 

 

Burning down the city will do that. But still, I wish we would have gotten more episodes of mad Dany than the last 2 hrs of the show. 

D&D in the post show said that the burning of the city wasn't preplanned by Dany.  She just snapped.

Also, who's left to fear her if she kills everybody? (Btw, burning down the entire iron fleet/golden company and sacking of King's Landing would cause plenty of fear anyway).

[visionary]

1 minute ago, bearrock said:

 

Well, D&D can't have it both ways.  "Oh, Dany's always been a bit crazy.  Look at her reaction after Drogo kills her brother!"  "Ah, see, you don't recognize the psycho crazy Dany now, cause she wasn't full on crazy before"

In her talks with Selmy, there is genuine desire to rule justly and wisely.  And also evidenced by her struggling to do right in Mereen (which I would say was more trying circumstance than sacking King's Landing).  She jumps from that to slaughtering an entire city's denizens who just surrendered?  I just don't see how those two characters can be reconciled.   

People change, she's had a lot of **** happen to her for a while, and even more happen in a much shorter time this season.  She had seeds of madness, but that doesn't mean she was going to kill everyone every time something went wrong.  Things build up.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Kinda feels like when Anakin slaughtered the younglings.  A bit far-fetched.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, visionary said:

People change, she's had a lot of **** happen to her for a while, and even more happen in a much shorter time this season.  She had seeds of madness, but that doesn't mean she was going to kill everyone every time something went wrong.  Things build up.

I just don't think it's her personality to burn the entire city once they've basically won.  She's happy to burn her enemies, she's never even had an inkling of burning people who aren't attempting to thwart her.  

 

I get that they tried to paint it as she's lost all her close friends, and she's pissed the **** off, and she's going to kill Cercei come hell or high water, and if a few civilians get caught in the crossfire, eh, so be it.

 

But the willful decision to basically melt the entire city just cause, that's just out of character.  Entirely.  

[bearrock]

3 minutes ago, visionary said:

People change, she's had a lot of **** happen to her for a while, and even more happen in a much shorter time this season.  She had seeds of madness, but that doesn't mean she was going to kill everyone every time something went wrong.  Things build up.

 

Okay, so before mid season 7 when they started telegraphing it, how people thought Dany would go crazy?  And crazy, I'm gonna order my enemies killed crazy or I'm gonna just roast the entire city full of people crazy?  During the first 6.5 seasons, she and Jon are the two full on hero and heroine in a stark raving crazy world.  And she takes a heel turn worthy of WWE with no real build up.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

In the end the Mad King was willing to burn KL down to prevent being overthrown. In the end Dany is clearly threatened by the impending reveal of the truth that her whole life is essentially a lie, and is willing to burn down KL to instill fear to keep

her “birthright” secure. 

 

And she’s gone mad. In the end this is Jon’s story. Not Danys. It’s a Song if Ice and Fire. Jon. Not Dany. Today had to happen for next weeks finale. 

[Bacon]

4 hours ago, bearrock said:

D&D in the post show said that the burning of the city wasn't preplanned by Dany.  She just snapped.

 

What made her snap then? Bell towers bug her? 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

They just didn’t tell the story of Dany killing innocents. It needed more time and actual nuance like the show used to have but they didn’t want this. They turned down HBO’s desire for more seasons and even full length final two seasons. They were ready to bail and it shows. 

 

[bearrock]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I just don't think it's her personality to burn the entire city once they've basically won.  She's happy to burn her enemies, she's never even had an inkling of burning people who aren't attempting to thwart her.  

 

I get that they tried to paint it as she's lost all her close friends, and she's pissed the **** off, and she's going to kill Cercei come hell or high water, and if a few civilians get caught in the crossfire, eh, so be it.

 

But the willful decision to basically melt the entire city just cause, that's just out of character.  Entirely.  

I'm starting to think D&D wanted to film that sequence showing devastation to the people on the ground.  The war is hell from regular folks' perspective.  That's what I'm thinking this entire build up was for.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Dany snapped. She went mad. Something about her birthright didn’t sit with me. She started wanting to earn it by freeing people but it always felt contrived. Like she had to do it to earn her birthright. And along the way she made some decisions that definitely made you question whether she was capable of being a good ruler. 

I guess you could say that, I just don't see it.  I think it was pretty clear that she was willing to roast her enemies, but almost always fought for those who couldn't fight for themselves.  I think "snapped" would be more that she flew right to the Red Keep and killed everybody inside it.  And Cercei had built a human shield in the Red Keep, so I could see that.

 

I just don't think flying around the city burning everything is in character, even if she snapped.

 

And I don't think they ever set up that snapping.  What's the worst actual thing she's done?  Kill Dickon?  I mean, the dad had it coming, maybe she spares Dickon.  

 

I guess the other thing was rounding up all the slave masters seasons ago. But again, that was in retribution for killing children, if I recall...

 

I would have had no problem with the "Mad Queen" arc if they had done more to set it up which made more sense.

 

Also, the Jamie/Cercei ending just seriously pisses me off.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

9 minutes ago, bearrock said:

D&D in the post show said that the burning of the city wasn't preplanned by Dany.  She just snapped.

Also, who's left to fear her if she kills everybody? (Btw, burning down the entire iron fleet/golden company and sacking of King's Landing would cause plenty of fear anyway).

 

They should stop doing those behind the episode pieces. they really don’t do themselves any favors. 

 

These are the guys that justified Dany getting ambushed last week by saying “she kinda forgot about the iron fleet” 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, bearrock said:

 

Okay, so before mid season 7 when they started telegraphing it, how people thought Dany would go crazy?  And crazy, I'm gonna order my enemies killed crazy or I'm gonna just roast the entire city full of people crazy?  During the first 6.5 seasons, she and Jon are the two full on hero and heroine in a stark raving crazy world.  And she takes a heel turn worthy of WWE with no real build up.

I’d argue there’s plenty of buildup. Plenty of examples of instances to drive her here. The final being the revelation of Jon’s truth and how that throws her whole being into question. And it reveals that in the end she just wants to be Queen. She’s essentially turned into Cersei. And she’s alone In the world now. Sure she has Jon. But she just met him. And he and his family are a very real threat whether he wants to be or not. And as Aemon said (and was quoted in the previously on) ... nothing more terrifying that a Targaryen alone in the world. 

 

dany is alone. And she snapped. All of her friends and advisors and those who would keep her in check are gone. And those who remained (Tyrion, Jon) ... know a truth that threatens her. 

 

Sure she could kneel to Jon be his wife and rule and King / Queen. But this isn’t Disney and that was never where this was going to go 

[visionary]

2 minutes ago, bearrock said:

Okay, so before mid season 7 when they started telegraphing it, how people thought Dany would go crazy?  

I thought she would years ago.  I hoped she wouldn't, but there were so many hints and it seemed like exactly the thing GRRM would do.  Give us what we want, but in a horrible way that makes us regret it.   While I was always excited to see her get to Westeros some day, I also half-dreaded it because of what she might do.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I guess you could say that, I just don't see it.  I think it was pretty clear that she was willing to roast her enemies, but almost always fought for those who couldn't fight for themselves.  I think "snapped" would be more that she flew right to the Red Keep and killed everybody inside it.  And Cercei had built a human shield in the Red Keep, so I could see that.

 

I just don't think flying around the city burning everything is in character, even if she snapped.

 

And I don't think they ever set up that snapping.  What's the worst actual thing she's done?  Kill Dickon?  I mean, the dad had it coming, maybe she spares Dickon.  

 

I guess the other thing was rounding up all the slave masters seasons ago. But again, that was in retribution for killing children, if I recall...

 

I would have had no problem with the "Mad Queen" arc if they had done more to set it up which made more sense.

 

Also, the Jamie/Cercei ending just seriously pisses me off.  

 

What they should have done was have her snap and burn the red keep and while going thru killing the remaining unarmed Lannister soldiers in the city she accidentally burns Arya and Jon sees this.

 

This shows her snapping and giving in to her worst impulses to roast her enemies but not being actually evil. And in giving in to her worst impulses she accidentally does something horrible to the person she loves and can’t take it back. Jon can’t let this go and risk her giving into those impulses again. It’s subtle and more impactful imo while also fitting her character. It’s tragic. She’s not bad or evil but her North Star and instincts cant exactly be trusted either since she has that trait of anger and madness 

 

But that’s not mindless spectacle 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Hersh]

7 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

They should stop doing those behind the episode pieces. they really don’t do themselves any favors. 

 

These are the guys that justified Dany getting ambushed last week by saying “she kinda forgot about the iron fleet” 

 

Let them keep talking. It shows the bubble they've been living in. The fact that they have to add in tidbits shows how terrible the writing has been. 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

The only satisfying ending now is if the show ends with Mad Queen Dany and every sane person taking exile north of the ex-Wall. 

Omg, that's exactly what will happen.  And Jon will become the new Night King.