Game of Thrones Season 8

[visionary]

Thinking about it some more, I think it would have been better if they had gotten Dany to go for Cersei first and then after not finding her, losing it and taking it out on the city or maybe burning a path to Cersei from the beginning.  I think it’s not clear enough to a lot of people why she’s doing what she’s doing.  

[Gamebreaker]

6 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Sure she could kneel to Jon be his wife and rule and King / Queen. But this isn’t Disney and that was never where this was going to go 

 

I don't buy that excuse. Jon and Dany marrying and ruling together was the most obvious and easiest solution to this problem. They could even come out with Jon's true heritage at that point, since Targs are known to intermarry. They just made really poor excuses to dismiss it because they needed Dany to to bad. This is what happens when the writers are no longer organically writing what these fleshed out characters would do, and instead are shoehorning everyone's decisions to follow a specific path. 

 

If they wanted to sell this Dany is power hungry heel turn better, they should've had Jon agree to a union and all of her advisors be supportive of that. Only for Dany to decline it at the last minute, and when pressed, lash out that she doesn't want to share the iron throne with anyone. That would've made it more believable to me than basically Dany hating hearing a lot of bells and lost it. 

[Gamebreaker]

Essentially, this season comes down to Dany going mad ultimately because Jon refused to give her the pipe when she really needed it. If he would've just put her ass to sleep none of this would've happened. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

6 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

What happened to those laser guided dragon killing ballistas this week ?

 

They were complex plot seeking missiles last week and this week the plot didn’t demand a dragon die 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

If George RR Martin is Jack Kent Cooke then David Benioff & D.B. Weiss would be Dan Snyder. Why is it that everything Hollywood touches lately turns to absolute ****. HBO should have just waited for George to finish the books, The season is a mess.

 

 

Everything felt so cliche , rushed & cheezy. Dannys 5 minute decent into madness- Varys rushed death - Arya the wall dodger- Jaime's fight with Yuron- Cersai's uneventful death-Clegane bowl draw-Greyworms scowling face- The Harpoons being useless all of a sudden- Dragon fire blowing out a stone wall ? Cmon

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I didn’t like Episode 4. But I rewatched it before last night and thought it was way better than my initial reaction and then the internet influence (this thread) had on me after. 

 

I thought last night was quite good. The Dany turn is understandable. I picked up on her descent into madness earlier than everyone else I now see. Her reaction to his lineage not being pure joy was what sealed it for me. As she lost her advisors one by one, the people who kept her in check, she descended closer to her father than where her arc had seemingly taken her. Her advisors always nudged her in the right direction. Even if subtly. The whole breaker of chains thing seemed sort of contrived to fit her narrative of earning the throne, but clearly none of that mattered in the end. She was threatened from all angles, and the final reveal of Jon being the true heir was too much to overcome. 

 

Snapping in that instant was fitting. She won. She got what she wanted. But she couldn’t overcome the lust of revenge, and burning **** down. She became her father.

[Bacon]

Sandor yelling "****ing die already" at Gregor while jamming a sword into his neck really sums this season up.

[No Excuses]

There is a gradient that leads from kindness to genocidal warlord. Dany was consistently probably somewhere in the middle for about 95% of the show. 

 

Her deciding to murder millions of people is just not justified by the story so far. That entire sequence, although great TV, was not fitting of her character development. 

 

Giving one episode to resolve Mad Queen Dany is just going to be awful, no matter how they do it. This show is either ends with Mad Queen ruling because no one can topple her which would be the less sucky ending, or the Mad Queen dying, which will be the worst ending because she’s pretty much indestructible at this point. 

[Renegade7]

44 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Essentially, this season comes down to Dany going mad ultimately because Jon refused to give her the pipe when she really needed it. If he would've just put her ass to sleep none of this would've happened. 

 

Jon is a really nice guy, too nice for a woman willing to burn entire city to the ground.  Think we were all in denial, now we know.

[StillUnknown]

2 hours ago, visionary said:

Thinking about it some more, I think it would have been better if they had gotten Dany to go for Cersei first and then after not finding her, losing it and taking it out on the city or maybe burning a path to Cersei from the beginning.  I think it’s not clear enough to a lot of people why she’s doing what she’s doing.  

 

This is my primary beef with this season. There just seems to be so many better ways to get to where they wanted to go if only they applied 15 minutes of thought and logic. 

 

I dont have a "favored" ending, i was just hoping for something logical based on the rules they previously established.

 

We knew we were into the fanfic section of the show, but this season has just been lazy. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by StillUnknown

[S.T.real,lights,out]

I enjoyed the episode, with the way they have been setting this season up.

 

I hate that they turned Danny into the Mad Queen...but that was to be expected i guess. 

 

One episode to go with a lot of thing to wrap up. 

[purbeast]

Okay I can no longer defend this season. 

Last nights episode was the worst episode of this show by far. It was absolutely terrible and I almost don't give a **** how the show ends at this point.

It's officially jumped the shark to me.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

You can turn her into the Mad Queen without making her purely evil out of nowhere. She can give in to her dark impulses without requiring us to hate her. That actually makes more sense and fits with one of  GRRM's major themes in that everybody is shades of grey, not just so simply black and white. Now we just have one last cartoon bad guy for the good guys to defeat. Is that satisfying?

 

Would it not have been more in line with Game of Thrones for us to still like Dany and be somewhat empathetic toward her and then pitting her against Jon? Our allegiances are split and our guts twisted as we see this play out. We know Jon should be the victor but we still love Dany and she really only had one moment of weakness and mistake. But you remove any of that complexity when you have her out of character massacre hundreds of thousands of innocent people AFTER she has already won. 

 

The problem is something like that requires nuance and these writers/show runners are incapable of that. 

[Mooka]

Told ya'll the writing and story had run its course.

 

Episode was pretty much a video game plot and many scenes reminded me directly of some games. 

 

Think i enjoyed the episode though as much as the rest of the season.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Mooka

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I’m trying to reconcile these reactions with how I interpreted the show. I guess it depends on where you lie on the spectrum of a fan. I am pretty into all things ASOIAF and love the world GRRM has built. Maybe I knew this story wasn’t going to end in a way that left everyone satisfied so I prepared for this to an extent. But I loved last night. People who didn’t must have been too invested in Team Dany. I’ve always been team Jon/Stark ... and this is building for the Northerners to free the world from the grips of tyranny. Pretty badass way for all this to end IMO. 

 

As others have said time and time again, all of this wasn’t building just so a Targaryen girl with dragons could reclaim the throne and rule with an iron fist. The people of this world have been battered and beaten for decades and especially the length of this show with war after war. Dany just cemented that she’s going to rule just as bad if not worse than Cersei. 

 

Story ending with Jon/Starks freeing the world from tyranny is fitting. After all, Robert was a ****ty ruler after overthrowing the Mad King. Ned wanted nothing of ruling the 7 Kingdoms and hid in the North. It’ll take a half Targaryen/Stark to break the chains and return this world to some semblance of freedom. I think it would be a nice ending. 

[S.T.real,lights,out]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

IStory ending with Jon/Starks freeing the world from tyranny is fitting. After all, Robert was a ****ty ruler after overthrowing the Mad King. Ned wanted nothing of ruling the 7 Kingdoms and hid in the North. It’ll take a half Targaryen/Stark to break the chains and return this world to some semblance of freedom. I think it would be a nice ending. 

 

I agree, i can see it ending this way as well...but how in 1 episode is John going take over as king? By just the numbers he clearly doesn't have the power. Do all of the norther armies come to support him? Then just get roasted by the dragon?

 

Does Arya kill Danny and all of Dannys armies just follow John? Seems like we have so much to wrap up and only 90 mins to do so. lol

[Momma There Goes That Man]

9 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I’m trying to reconcile these reactions with how I interpreted the show. I guess it depends on where you lie on the spectrum of a fan. I am pretty into all things ASOIAF and love the world GRRM has built. Maybe I knew this story wasn’t going to end in a way that left everyone satisfied so I prepared for this to an extent. But I loved last night. People who didn’t must have been too invested in Team Dany. I’ve always been team Jon/Stark ... and this is building for the Northerners to free the world from the grips of tyranny. Pretty badass way for all this to end IMO. 

 

As others have said time and time again, all of this wasn’t building just so a Targaryen girl with dragons could reclaim the throne and rule with an iron fist. The people of this world have been battered and beaten for decades and especially the length of this show with war after war. Dany just cemented that she’s going to rule just as bad if not worse than Cersei. 

 

Story ending with Jon/Starks freeing the world from tyranny is fitting. After all, Robert was a ****ty ruler after overthrowing the Mad King. Ned wanted nothing of ruling the 7 Kingdoms and hid in the North. It’ll take a half Targaryen/Stark to break the chains and return this world to some semblance of freedom. I think it would be a nice ending. 

 

I don't have any problem with Dany going mad. I'm not team dany and thought this story would and should play out this way for years. 

 

My issue with the story is the execution of her descent into madness. There is nothing in her history that suggests she would do this to innocent people. This moment is not earned through the story telling of the series so far. Her going mad is pretty heavily foreshadowed but not doing it by massacring women and children. 

 

In fact, it is the exact opposite. Khal Drogo died specifically because Dany wanted to protect women being raped and she claimed all of the innocents as hers to protect them further raping. She crucified the masters because they had murdered the children of their enemies. There has never been any hint her madness would go to this level or horror and evil and thus there is no explanation for why it did. 

 

Even the Mad King wasn't ready to burn the city down until he had lost. He thought he would be reborn in the fire as a dragon too according to Jaime. He was legit crazy. Dany is now just evil. In an instant, she becomes straight evil beyond even the Mad King or any other villain we have seen in the show to this point. Dany snaps after winning a decisive victory and having everything she's ever wanted. The people were rightly terrified. She had destroyed the armies and Cersei. It was over. She has a pause. She has time to reflect on this. And then she just snaps and kills women and children. There is no rationale behind it. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Momma There Goes That Man

[purbeast]

You guys think that Dany read Twitter while at Starbucks?

 

She did EXACTLY what the whole internet said she should have done 2 episodes ago after not flanking the Iron Fleet.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

13 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Even the Mad King wasn't ready to burn the city down until he had lost. He thought he would be reborn in the fire as a dragon too according to Jaime. He was legit crazy. Dany is now just evil. In an instant, she becomes straight evil beyond even the Mad King or any other villain we have seen in the show to this point. Dany snaps after winning a decisive victory and having everything she's ever wanted. The people were rightly terrified. She had destroyed the armies and Cersei. It was over. She has a pause. She has time to reflect on this. And then she just snaps and kills women and children. There is no rationale behind it.

But I'm not sure you can explain away mad. If someone is mad, and willing to burn a city to the ground, you can't justify it.

 

Mad is mad. Crazy is crazy. From Season 1 this has been alluded to. She had a heart, and she freed a bunch of people but she was still, at the end of the day, striving to reclaim the throne. That was her ultimate goal. And in the process she lost everyone who was close to her that was her safety net. She lost two of her dragons. And at the 11th hour she learns that this whole time she isn't the rightful heir and there's a more popular, more "deserving" person than her. And yes, it's her "lover" ... but this all builds against her. And when he won't accept her, or love her back (pushing her away), she is all alone in the world. It's been years since she's freed the slaves. Let's also not forget that she freed the slaves and then the slaves re-enslaved themselves. She's tried to be good and at every turn she was undone. And this is her final straw. She snapped, and I can understand to a certain extent why she snapped. It's a TV show, and they laid the groundwork for this all the way back in Season 1. Maybe it doesn't jive with her "breaker of chains" romp through Esos ... but she's always flashed ... and she snapped ... and it's not that unfathomable for me.

 

This story arc makes sense. And with one episode to go, maybe we get some insight into what happened. Maybe we get a "mea culpa" where she's like holy crap what did I do ... and there's remorse. We'll see.

 

But whether we get that or not, this isn't a deal breaker for me. It fits. It sucks. It isn't a Disney ending. But the books are a Song of Ice and Fire. And in the end this is the story of Jon Snow, and the value system of the Starks and the North not jiving with that of the southerners/Targaryans/tyrants.

 

We loved Ned and all he stood for. He came south and the immoral/different value structure got him killed and this entire series of events started. Now his family will ensure that the Northern values and morals and freedoms are bestowed on the rest of the world. That's pretty cool.

 

Also, Ned Stark refused to have Dany poisoned in Season 1 because he didnt find it moral to kill innocent women and children. This story is brilliant.

Edited May 13, 2019 by JamesMadisonSkins

[No Excuses]

29 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Story ending with Jon/Starks freeing the world from tyranny is fitting. After all, Robert was a ****ty ruler after overthrowing the Mad King. Ned wanted nothing of ruling the 7 Kingdoms and hid in the North. It’ll take a half Targaryen/Stark to break the chains and return this world to some semblance of freedom. I think it would be a nice ending.  

 

You aren't the only one who predicted a bittersweet ending.

 

But giving us this story arc in two episodes at the end of the show is just bad.

 

Dany going mad is fine. Dany going mad for the last 100 minutes of the show is awful writing.

 

Jon/Starks freeing the world is fine. Jon potentially freeing the world from a Mad Queen in the last 60 minutes of the show is going to be awful.

 

On paper, there is nothing wrong with the direction of this show. The entire problem is that they condensed really pivotal stories and character arcs into a few episodes and as a result, the storytelling has just been awful.

Edited May 13, 2019 by No Excuses

[Momma There Goes That Man]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This story arc makes sense. And with one episode to go, maybe we get some insight into what happened. Maybe we get a "mea culpa" where she's like holy crap what did I do ... and there's remorse. We'll see.

 

But whether we get that or not, this isn't a deal breaker for me. It fits. It sucks. It isn't a Disney ending. But the books are a Song of Ice and Fire. And in the end this is the story of Jon Snow, and the value system of the Starks and the North not jiving with that of the southerners/Targaryans/tyrants.

 

I just disagree. It makes sense in her losing herself but massacring a million innocent people doesn't make sense with the story they've told to this point. And there is no remorse from what she's done. It'll be even worse if she shows remorse after this. 

 

I don't want a disney ending and never have. I want a well written ending that fits within the character arcs that they've spent almost a decade writing and this just doesn't to me. They didn't sell me on this story. She's stopped, victorious. What made her just go on a killing spree? That's why it's unearned. She saw the landscape of her victory, saw the people cowering in fear and then just decided to be the most evil villain in the history of Westeros. No amount of foreshadowing led to her becoming Aegon, Aerys II and Cersei combined and multiplied by 1000 in an instant.  

 

 But the show can't really write nuance anymore so this is what you get. Fire and blood for spectacle and twitter hashtags not for the story. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Momma There Goes That Man

[StillUnknown]

 

568 uncomfortable conversations on deck

 

Who in the hell is watching this show then naming their child Ramsay?

[Gamebreaker]

I have no problem with Dany going mad, I've expected it to end that way for years. It's how they went about it that has people disappointed in how it turned out. Having her do that after she won, to just murder innocent people all across KL instead of flying her dragon directly to the Red Keep, just shows the lack of care the showrunners have for the story. If she went to the Red Keep and burned it down, saw Cersei or heard Cersei escaped, and then decided to burn the whole city to finish her I'd see people get her madness a little better. But she knew exactly where Cersei was, and still targeted people who were completely innocent. Her father's madness was always justified by a reason, and not necessarily good reasons. What is Dany's reason to do what she did? 

 

It's not that big a deal to me, I stopped caring how this ended years ago when I realized GRRM had no intentions on finishing this series. But I understand where alot of the critical fans are coming from. Tyrion has been out of character for two seasons, but no more out of character than this last episode. They actually wrote the story to allow the two incest twins to have their dying moment together, like Cersei deserved that and Jaime hadn't been written as a redemption from that for the majority of the series. 

 

The actor who plays Grey Worm annoys the hell out of me. Dude has two facial expressions, scowl and angry scowl.  I really can't tell how broken up he is about Melissandei dying since he's been using those two expressions like she was already dead all season. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Gamebreaker

[Bozo the kKklown]

The show is irredeemably lost. The writers really blew it with the nonsense they have served us this season.

 

The reason why her dad was the Mad King was due to him being deluded and insane. He was literally hearing voices and what not. They did not do a good job of establishing she was mad. Not even a little bit. Their were teases here and there but nothing like this. I still maintain making her insane by the end of season seven but the north knowing they needed her dragons to kill the White Walkers woulda been lit, but they instead rushed it this season.

 

Really disappointed that they made Varys a nobody by the end of his chapter. Also how does Cersai and Jamie get a romantic ending? Wtf? They really blew it this season and all the goodwill this show has is now lost.

[bearrock]

They used madness as a deus ex machina.  After laying all that ground work to set up the heroine's fall in a complex way, they said "oops, madness".  You can use the loneliness, the paranoia, the grief, the vengeance to set up Dany to go over to atrocity and fall in a believable way.  Destroying the city to hunt down Cersei would have been a plausible way to go.