The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

We’ve butted heads a bit on the Alex Smith season, I don’t think we’re actually too far off— In no way did I think the season was set to be a special one and I was almost certain the Skins would lose in the wild card or easily get beat in the divisional round. The Skins were just average, but average with an identity and a “pro” at QB, a guy the team liked and believed in. 

 

 

I agree with your thought that Alex being a great dude brought intangibles that the team needed.  So yeah we aren't that far apart.  I admit I got a button on Alex and the draft and they are based on the following:

 

A.  Making the 6-4 record 6-3.  Alex was saddled in the record book with the Texans game as a loss, he played into the 2nd half, his numbers were atrocious in that game. The almost comeback was mounted by Colt not Alex.   And I watched him in my eyes in person struggle against Tampa the week before.  They got really lucky in that game.  And the luck was on the defensive side of the ball.  I think the 6-3 is a bit overplayed for those reasons.   

 

The larger part of it for me is parcelling parts of the season for me feels like loser talk.  We can't win but we can talk about the best parts of the season.   We were great when we were healthy or whatever context doesn't move me anymore just because its gone on this way for long enough.   Like I said we were 6-3 in 2016.  People for a stretch talked about how in 2017 we were on the roll, beating the mighty Raiders and then almost beating the Chiefs if only Doctson made the catch.  On and on. 

 

Tired of talking up partial success.  I get that's not what you are doing, just explaining why it almost always triggers a response in me anyway.  😀

 

B.  I've been a draft nut for a long time.  I am typing this while I got college football on.  I even try to go every year to some college games.  I live the draft.  But there is more to building a winning culture IMO than having good drafts -- good drafts don't make a culture.  The culture is set above the players.   Albeit I agree with you that a transformative talent at QB might overcome a bad culture.  

 

Edit: speaking of the draft, you still going to the Miami game?  It might have some serious ramifications to the draft, ironically. 😀

[wit33]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree with your thought that Alex being a great dude brought intangibles that the team needed.  So yeah we aren't that far apart.  I admit I got a button on Alex and the draft and they are based on the following:

 

A.  Making the 6-4 record 6-3.  Alex was saddled in the record book with the Texans game as a loss, he played into the 2nd half, his numbers were atrocious in that game. The almost comeback was mounted by Colt not Alex.   And I watched him in my eyes struggle against Tampa the week before.  They got really lucky in that game.  And the luck was on the defensive side of the ball.  I think the 6-3 is a bit overplayed for those reasons.   

 

When you’re an average team luck or being fortunate will always be present in 9-10 win type season. Even the good teams a fan go back and say if the ball bounced this way or a call wen that way “we” could’ve lost 2-3 more games. 

 

My view, I value the Skins being in position consistently to be in position to have a chance and where a bad INT or call that goes against the other team can actually help.

 

—The adverse being a terrible “lucky” play being meaningless like Mitchel Turbisky inconceivably throwing an INT in the red zone or the Giant backup RB fumbling inside the 10. Unfortunately the Skins weren’t in position to get a lucky win. 

 

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The larger part of it for me is parcelling parts of the season for me feels like loser talk.  We can't win but we can talk about the best parts of the season.   We were great when we were healthy or whatever context doesn't move me anymore just because its gone on this way for long enough.   Like I said we were 6-3 in 2016.  People for a stretch talked about how in 2017 we were on the roll, beating the mighty Raiders and then almost beating the Chiefs if only Doctson made the catch.  On and on. 

 

I’m cool with 6-4 lol. Still sounds good to me. Staying on topic of luck, the Titans were incredibly fortunate to be on receiving of an Alex Smith red zone pick before the half that totally changed the complexion of that game. I bet if Alex was asked what was his worst momentum changing play of the season and one he’s most disappointed in, its be that. As he seems self aware enough to realize he’s not a QB that can overcome that and he must be maniacal in these situations to be a consistent winner like the more elite QBs in the league. 

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Tired of talking up partial success.  I get that's not what you are doing, just explaining why it almost always triggers a response in me anyway.  😀

 

B.  I've been a draft nut for a long time.  I am typing this while I got college football on.  I even try to go every year to some college games.  I live the draft.  But there is more to building a winning culture IMO than having good drafts -- good drafts don't make a culture.  The culture is set above the players.   Albeit I agree with you that a transformative talent at QB might overcome a bad culture.  

 

I don’t disagree about the partial success stuff you mention and realize I view Skins with an overly optimistic view and will generally slant this direction in many issues related to the team. I’d love to get out of the below average to sometimes average state of the past 20 years lol and in no way is my way the right way, just the way i choose to maximize value as a fan. 

 

 

Quote

 

Edit: speaking of the draft, you still going to the Miami game?  It might have some serious ramifications to the draft, ironically. 😀

 

Yes sir! As I mentioned before, a group of us are coming from Phoenix to go to the game and spend time in Miami (my buddy who’s getting married is a Dolphin fan lol). We bought the tickets months ago lol, my guess is scalpers will almost be giving them away 😕 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I don’t disagree about the partial success stuff you mention and realize I view Skins with an overly optimistic view and will generally slant this direction in many issues related to the team. I’d love to get out of the below average to sometimes average state of the past 20 years lol and in no way is my way the right way, just the way i choose to maximize value as a fan. 

 

For me I need to have that QB first.  If Haskins develops then I will likely buy in.  I think relatively speaking I am one of the more optimistic people on the board.  I made fun of all the national predictions before the season that the team would stink.  I predicted them to win 3 times already on the game thread.  I guess the joke so far on that is on me. 😀   I probably tout some of the younger players as loud as anyone here.  But where I get negative its on Bruce-Dan and I bring the heat -- its usually a variation of I think they've improved but I don't think they've turned a big corner, yet.  And I really hate the sleazy stuff. 

 

And the sleaze has nothing to do at who it's aimed at.  You wouldn't have found a louder critic on the board about Zorn than me.  Yet, I was critical about the ugly way they treated him his last season.   In the 80s, this team was considered the good guys.  Now, we are often considered the bad guys.  and I disagree with some who depict that as a media driven narrative -- in my view they've earned that status. 

 

I got two youngish kids who live in an area with a ton of transplants from around the country (so I know fans of many teams) and its not hard for me to see the Redskins aren't just viewed as incompetently run but also sort of uncool.  I think the name is part of it but not the whole narrative.  When my kid goes to school wearing a Redskins jersey it actually crosses my mind he might be made fun of.  I would never think like that when i went to school.  

 

15 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Yes sir! As I mentioned before, a group of us are coming from Phoenix to go to the game and spend time in Miami (my buddy who’s getting married is a Dolphin fan lol). We bought the tickets months ago lol, my guess is scalpers will almost be giving them away 😕 

 

the irony is (I posed an article on that front on the draft thread) deep down some Dolphin fans want to lose this one.  They are scared the Redskins could derail their mission to get Tua.   yeah like you I bought the tickets months ago, too.  Mistake.   They are cheaper now. 

[veteranskinsfan]

So ESPN 980 radio is reporting that Allen is going nowhere.  One of our biggest weaknesses is that we have no one in authority in top management who can recognize young coaching talent.   We let McVay go to the Rams and another young coach is now Head Coach of Green Bay.  So now the list of coaches leaked to the media is a list of 3 head coaches probably recommended by Gibbs that are old school coaches in their fifties or sixties.   So I am prepared for more dysfunction until the Prince of Darkness is removed as the head guy running this sinking ship.

[HigSkin]

Hope Dianna will be at the PC today to ask these types of questions.

 

[spjunkies]

OMG Ian Rapoport was just on Grant and Danny and when asked why Bruce Allen still has a job all he could do was break out into a long laugh and say "America is a great country".

 

This franchise is a complete joke.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

*queue the Rappaport shouldn't have a job either because he always gets stuff wrong posts*

 

 

[veteranskinsfan]

So is everyone here comfortable with Williams remaining as our General Manager?  He brought Alex Smith here and Adrian Peterson.  Is he here because he

is a former Tampa Bay guy or is he here because he can make good trades and make good draft picks?  Is he here because Allen knows he will not back stab him?

[Riggo#44]

6 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

is a former Tampa Bay guy or is he here because he can make good trades and make good draft picks? 

 

He's a double-dipper--former Buc and former Redskin Super Bowl Winner.

 

It's like offering life time supply of crack to Tyrone Biggins.

[veteranskinsfan]

Doc Walker just said, "Bruce makes every decision about everything.  Why don't we have a General Manager."

[RichmondRedskin88]

I refer to this quote from a Wash Post editor back during the White House corruption during vietnam.  It perfectly describes the fans revolting against the FO.

 

Ben Bradlee : We have to be the check on their power. If we don't hold them accountable, then, my God, who will?

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Doc Walker just said, "Bruce makes every decision about everything.  Why don't we have a General Manager."

 

Pretty sure he answered his own question.

[Peregrine]

I, for one, am greatly excited to see what Bruce can finally do when hes no longer shackled by the confines of the coaches he chose or the front office he put in place around him.

[Voice_of_Reason]

34 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

So is everyone here comfortable with Williams remaining as our General Manager?  He brought Alex Smith here and Adrian Peterson.  Is he here because he

is a former Tampa Bay guy or is he here because he can make good trades and make good draft picks?  Is he here because Allen knows he will not back stab him?

Williams isn't the GM.  He's the SVP of Player Personnel.  But he doesn't get to make decisions.  Bruce makes decisions.  

 

Here's my understanding of the way things work.

 

Williams runs the personnel department, which includes the scouting department for both pro and college.  Kyle Smith (college) and Alex Santos (Pro)  work (technically) for Williams.  

 

For the draft, Kyle Smith has the lead putting together the draft board, and FOR THE MOST PART, he and Williams run the draft.  I doubt Bruce cares one way or another about a 5th round ILB vs. a TE.  

 

For the most important picks, like 1st rounders and QB, Bruce makes the decision.  Based on whatever he wants, or whatever Dan tells him to want. I absolutely believe that they get information from the personnel guys, and maybe even the coaches, but Bruce makes the decisions, and can choose to ignore that advice if he chooses to. 

 

For FA, Bruce is in charge.  He gets information from the personnel department (I'm assuming Santos is the lead on this, and Williams is involved), but decides who the targets are and what the value is going to be.

 

Eric Schaffer carries out the contract negotiations on behalf of the Redskins based on the parameters set forth by Bruce.

 

For trades, that's 100% Bruce.  

 

[Springfield]

I, for one, care to never see a Tampa Bay loser in this organization again.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Hope Dianna will be at the PC today to ask these types of questions.

 

Grant is actually factually wrong about one thing: Spurrier resigned.  

 

Also, this feeds into the "Dan has knee jerk reactions" thing which is also false.  ALL of these moves except the last 2 happened more than 10 years ago.  

 

Since 2010, Snyder fired 2 coaches (Shanahan, now Gruden).  Until yesterday, it was 9 years, 1 coach.  

 

The patience Dan has exhibited over the last 9 years is actually astounding.  Given his previous history.

 

The biggest mistake on that list was firing Marty after 1 year.  That was impulsive and stupid.  Spurrier quit, Gibbs retired (again), and Zorn should never have been hired.

 

Shanahan lasted 4 years, Gruden lasted 5.25.  That's actually relatively stable for absolutely no success.  

[Skinsinparadise]

53 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

So is everyone here comfortable with Williams remaining as our General Manager?  He brought Alex Smith here and Adrian Peterson.  Is he here because he

is a former Tampa Bay guy or is he here because he can make good trades and make good draft picks?  Is he here because Allen knows he will not back stab him?

 

From what Russell and others have said, Doug is more of a facilitator than a decision maker behind the scenes.  I've not heard one story about Doug bringing Alex Smith -- actually the story was borderline the reverse where Bruce said don't answer your phone and sprung the Alex trade on him.  As for Peterson, even in Doug's own account of the story he mentioned that it was Schaffer's idea but he was the one who followed up on it. 

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The patience Dan has exhibited over the last 9 years is actually astounding.  Given his previous history.

 

 

On the head coaching front, yee.  From some who cover the team is still very emotional and impatient behind the scenes and still needs to be appeased.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

actually the story was borderline the reverse where Bruce said don't answer your phone and sprung the Alex trade on him. 

There's nothing borderline about it.  It was completely the reverse. 

 

Bruce didn't check with Doug, and I doubt he consulted Jay.  He just found a viable starting QB and grabbed him.

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On the head coaching front, yee.  From some who cover the team is still very emotional and impatient behind the scenes and still needs to be appeased.  

Sure, but he doesn't actually DO anything about it, at least not as far as we know.  He throws his temper tantrums, and then nothing changes. 

 

Mitch from the 'Skins talk Pod said that after the Bears game, the look Dan had heading down to the locker room, he was shocked Manusky survived that walk.  However, he did.

 

I'm sure Dan threw a fit, somebody told him it would be all better, then they went back to playing soft-zone coverage like nothing had ever happened.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/another-redskins-coach-fired-and-his-successor-already-is-destined-to-fail/2019/10/07/f6d8f692-e913-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html

 

Brewer killed it here.  Echoes everything I've been saying for what feels like forever, so of course I love it.  But it should satisfy the thirst of those who wanted Jay's blood and those of us that look past the head coach.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Sure, but he doesn't actually DO anything about it, at least not as far as we know.  He throws his temper tantrums, and then nothing changes. 

 

 

I agree there is no way to know.  But some have said concessions are made to Dan behind the scenes.  There is turnover in that FO even if its' not Bruce.   We don't know whats going on with the assistant coaches and the roster -- we've heard mixed stories about that.

 

The scenarios I keep hearing about Dan is that one of these three scenarios is likely in play:

 

A.  He defiantly thinks hey you wanted me to not get involved and I did.  I hired my man Bruce and I am staying out of his way.  So why are you giving my a hard time.  Portis who knows Dan echoes that today but he's not the only one who is friendly with Dan that echoes that line.

 

Answer:  Dan its not about hiring just any dude and getting out of his way but hiring someone with a top reputation for running a good team -- not who your favorite drinking buddy is.

 

B. Dan still runs things.  Bruce is just much better at covering that up than Vinny was.

 

C.  Dan is still a tyrant type behind the scenes.  He rules by fear.   But if you are part of his small clique, he will have your back forever.    You might recall but an insider type here said Jay would go drinking with Dan, too.  Multiple reporters said Jay was good at appeasing Dan-Bruce.   

 

My point is I got little doubt that Dan will give a long leash to people who are his buddies and are tight in his small social clique.  But it doesn't sound like he's that easy to work for unless you appease him and that includes his small social clique. 

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/another-redskins-coach-fired-and-his-successor-already-is-destined-to-fail/2019/10/07/f6d8f692-e913-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html

 

Brewer killed it here.  Echoes everything I've been saying for what feels like forever, so of course I love it.  But it should satisfy the thirst of those who wanted Jay's blood and those of us that look past the head coach.

 

Some good stuff, in it.  The lazy stuff was via ESPN.  

 

In fact, the new coach already has failed. That’s because the Redskins are failing him with their current power structure. As long as Snyder continues to employ Bruce Allen as the team president, the new coach will have a boss who has turned the Peter Principle into a depressing kind of performance art.

 

Allen is now 60-89-1 since joining the franchise, yet he will celebrate 10 years with the organization in December. Happy anniversary to you, too, Bruce. Snyder’s 20 years would be only half as miserable without you.

It’s remarkable. The more Allen messes up, the more untouchable he seems to become. He has this mystical ability to present himself not as a failure, but as a victim who was bamboozled by his own people.

 

You know Gruden was done when Allen started to distance himself from the coach. Then you started to hear character assassinations seep into the media, such as the recent suggestion from multiple outlets that Gruden was ineffective because he’s lazy. The strategy to kick ’em on the way out has long been an evil part of the way Snyder has run the franchise. And for what? Justification? The approach predates Allen, but it has gotten only worse with him as the president. The Shanahan exit was messy. The ousting of former general manager Scot McCloughan was messier. When he left for Minnesota, Kirk Cousins was nothing but a selfish guy with a wandering eye. And now Gruden is the bum who didn’t work hard enough to keep his job.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/another-redskins-coach-fired-and-his-successor-already-is-destined-to-fail/2019/10/07/f6d8f692-e913-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[volsmet]

[megared]

Best we can hope for at this point is for Bruce to announce an exhaustive search for a GM, as a directive of Snyder.  The time, if it ever were gonna happen under Allen, would be now, at this press conference.  Otherwise I doubt his job is in jeopardy.

[Springfield]

Also, Bruce Allen is a cheap mother****er.  It’s like Snyder decided to hire the stingiest guy he could after Cerrato let him spend to his heart’s content.

[MisterPinstripe]

Any idea where we can watch the press conference? I want to have my hopes crushed live of ANYTHING happening to Allen.