Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughlan, Jay Gruden, and all that stuff like that there

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You can really like somebody and develop a really big difference of opinion.  I'm also not saying it's only Gruden and Scot.  It could be Allen and Scot.  It could be Dan and Scott.  And again, not necessarily dislike personally, but complete disagreement on what the right thing to do is now. 

 

 

 

Yeah I followed your point, Jay and Scot was just one of your variables among others.  I was just giving my 2 cents on that specific variable and that is I really doubt that Jay-Scot dynamics are guiding this (based on what I observed personally and what beat reporters have said so far).  Though obviously, I don't know for sure.   

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

That's what I was thinking of at the time...just couldn't figure out the right words (and too lazy to google it)...but I did blow it <--- your turn

My turn for what?

[Riggo#44]

The more I read these rumors, the more I dislike Bruce Allen. I know I am only basing this off partial and definitely not objective info, but man, it's hard to like how he is coming across

[Warhead36]

The more I think about it, the more I think he relapsed and the team is keeping quiet out of respect to him.

[moondog]

19 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

What smear campaign?

 

19 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Smear campaign?? It's been confirmed that he requested a trade early this season...in a contract year coming off a playoff berth. 

 

So if anything, his passive aggressive "I haven't even heard from the Skins yet" bull**** all offseason is the smear campaign. Why would you contact a guy to try to sign him early when he tried to get off the team already?

 

I've read a couple articles now that are from the typical local reporters that also make up the primary "the sky is falling" group this year and every year. They may or may not be correct right now but they've set a long precedent. I may have missed it, but none of the articles I have read have an identified source or quote from anyone in the FO. They've all said something to the effect that "said reporter has confirmed" with absolutely no info on how they so called "confirmed" it.

 

I've seen plenty of articles and posts over the years stating that Pierre is dissatisfied and wants out. Yet he's settled down here, started his own business here and, while the same criticism can be applied to him for being super positive about the skins just before free agency, he has had nothing but praise and respect for his time here. Along with that he's been the ultimate professional and hard worker here. To the best of my knowledge the only thing I've ever seen "confirmed" were direct quotes from him that were critical of guys like RGIII. Not a great look, but we were all thinking it and it's pretty clear now he was the only one on a team full of guys that had the balls (or foolishness) to just come out and say it or defend himself when Robert continued to say everyone else needed to get better. I have some respect for a guy that works as hard as Pierre standing up for himself in what was a pretty gentle way.

 

It seems at least to me that most, if not all, of the stuff about him wanting out or disliking the skins was an extreme reach based on a few quotes such as these.

 

This franchise, at least pre-SM had a strong precedence for smearing players (and coaches) in the media before parting ways. SM may or may not be drinking and if he is I'll be as pissed as anyone. But I don't think our PR exactly did much of a job getting ahead of it, rather they seemed perfectly happy letting the media grab hold of it early. Pierre seems along the same lines. There was never so much as a rumor this year that Pierre wanted out or trade rumors (which is a good thing). There was maybe an article or two that he was upset when we weren't winning and he wasn't getting the ball (said every good receiver ever, including DeSean). Now all of a sudden a very good receiver who's been the definition of what you want out of a player in terms of work ethic and effort on the field and great character off the field is about to maybe leave and admittedly the franchise doesn't have much of an excuse for letting both of its top two wideouts leave. Enter smear campaign that said receiver wanted out anyway to relieve fault from the franchise.

 

Again, I've seen nothing that it's truly been confirmed (imo) that he asked to be traded. I get that DJax will cost too much, maybe Garcon too. But I don't see an issue with us using Marshall's contract as a jumping point and maybe trying to give Garcon a 2-3 year deal for 8-9 per year. That's well within our range and to me, would be stupid not too. So all of a sudden we're basically dogging a guy to give an excuse for why he's leaving.

 

All I'm saying is if we let both our guys go, then sign some scrub like Britt off the street for MAYBE $1-2M less per year I will be up in arms. The guy's been in our system for 5 years, has been exactly what we expected him to be, and is always on the field minus a handful of games his first year, has earned another contract and is absolutely worth that money to us and again, if we let him walk only to sign a less deserving player to an insignificantly less cheap contract, I will be pissed. Reward your own.

[Destino]

 

 

[Dissident2]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

The more I read these rumors, the more I dislike Bruce Allen. I know I am only basing this off partial and definitely not objective info, but man, it's hard to like how he is coming across

 

I pretty much made my mind up on the guy after that 2014 postseason presser, one of the most pathetic, inept displays I've ever seen. When he hired Scot, I thought, fine, go handle the alumni stuff, maybe you're good at that. Turns out, he never really relinquished that GM role after all. Not really. 

 

Why he has a job, why Tony Wylie still has a job ... it beggars belief. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

Honestly is this isn't that surprising. We always wondered why Bruce had final say over the GM. Honestly with morons like him around I can't blame Scot for drinking. If Snyder is involved than I really don't blame him. I'd be at the bar every night.

[PortisBetts]

Depending on how this off-season plays out, I very well may not get the NFL Sunday ticket this year. I already havent purchased any new Redskins gear since 2013. Its a shame because i was just saying to my wife a few months ago that it is starting to look like I can start financially supporting this team. However, if this continues, I will continue to hold out and will cut out another $250 (300 if you include preseason) that I spend on the NFL/Redskins. I refuse to give this (again, potentially depending on outcomes) inept franchise any sort of financial support and grow their value while I am miserable.

 

If Cousins leaves, I won't even be angry at him.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

19 minutes ago, hailer21 said:

SILVER LINING....

 

Do we really know how influential Scott has been over personnel during his time here?

 

If you go transaction by transaction, how much of that decision is based on Scott's input, Bruce's, Jay's, Danny, Doug, etc.? I'm fairly certain that personnel decisions have been a hodge-podge of decision makers coming to an agreement since Scott was brought on.

 

If we're going full optimist here, maybe the organization will stay the course and continue improving. I'm stretching to find the silver lining and this is all I've got. 

 

If Kirk goes elsewhere, then forget everything I've said about silver linings and hope because this franchise will then be permanently doomed to fail.

 

I would even look at this a different way...is there really any evidence that 2015 and 2016 acquisitions were better than 2013 and 2014? 

[DJD2]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18854671/gm-no-longer-scot-mccloughan-part-washington-redskins-calls

 

Washington Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan is no longer involved in the team's decision making as his future with the organization remains in question, multiple sources told ESPN.

 

EDITOR'S PICKS

• 

  Sources: 49ers expected to sign WR Garcon

  The 49ers are expected to finalize a deal with wide receiver Pierre Garcon, league sources tell ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

One source with intimate knowledge of McCloughan's situation said his agent, Peter Schaffer, was meeting with the Redskins on Wednesday to discuss the matter.

The Redskins' recent moves, from giving coach Jay Gruden an extension to re-signing Vernon Davis and using the exclusive tag on Kirk Cousins, were made at the time without McCloughan's input. Gruden received a contract extension Saturday; Davis re-signed Wednesday. They placed the tag on Cousins last week.

McCloughan was responsible for setting the team's free agent board and many of the personnel priorities certainly would have been discussed with him earlier in the offseason. But, regardless, his job status has been an ongoing topic with multiple reports suggesting a resolution would be shortly after the draft at the latest. There have been reports about the Redskins already discussing potential replacements.

McCloughan has been absent from Redskins Park as the NFL nears free agency, an important time for any personnel decision maker. He's not involved in negotiations, and hasn't been in the past, but in the past he certainly would be in the building and help oversee the operation.

The Redskins chief negotiators with free agents, as in the past, are Eric Schaffer and team president Bruce Allen. They're the ones who negotiate the deals.

McCloughan did not accompany the team to Indianapolis for the scouting combine. He and his agent strongly denied that he was ever sent home from the Redskins' facility in late February, as had been reported.

It represents quite a turn for the Redskins, who hired McCloughan in January 2015 to help turn the franchise around. The Redskins have won a combined 17 games the last two years, with an NFC East title in 2015. But it's an important offseason for the franchise, with uncertainty over Cousins' future and the need to rebuild their defense. Once Cousins signs his franchise tag tender, they'll have $40 million in available cap space. They also own 10 draft picks.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I'm not sure why many people keep citing a 'relapse'.  You can't relapse from something you never quit.  Yes, perhaps he had it 'under control' back when he signed his deal and flew off the handles again, but at no point did her or anyone else indicate that he was straight edge.

 

Most likely this falling out is a combination of a number of things with blame to be spread far and wide, as with every other sad situation our franchise has found itself in for 2 decades.

[WelshSkinsFan]

The Garcon trade request was confirmed by his agent.  Said something along the lines of they asked for a trade early in the season, the team said no and Pierre was fine with that and just took care of his business.  Not a ton of detail about the why but he clearly was not seeing a lot of the ball early on and I think it was a case of him saying he wanted to be used and if the team didn't plan on featuring him they ought to take the opportunity to get something in return.  Clearly he saw a lot more action after that and there is no indication he was unhappy with the way it was handled.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, WelshSkinsFan said:

The Garcon trade request was confirmed by his agent.  Said something along the lines of they asked for a trade early in the season, the team said no and Pierre was fine with that and just took care of his business.  Not a ton of detail about the why but he clearly was not seeing a lot of the ball early on and I think it was a case of him saying he wanted to be used and if the team didn't plan on featuring him they ought to take the opportunity to get something in return.  Clearly he saw a lot more action after that and there is no indication he was unhappy with the way it was handled.

I'm sure he wanted targets in a contract year and demanding a trade gets his voice heard.

[PortisBetts]

33 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18854671/gm-no-longer-scot-mccloughan-part-washington-redskins-calls

 

Washington Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan is no longer involved in the team's decision making as his future with the organization remains in question, multiple sources told ESPN

Look, if he is drinking, get rid of him and promote someone and let us know what happened. If he isn't and he is staying, let us ****ing know. Why the **** is this process taking so long and right at the start of free agency. All I want to do is scout players, watch free agency, and get ready for the season. Instead, we have to watch asshole executives have a ****ty power struggle with smoke and mirrors. Stop letting the ****ing media run wild with this garbage. I think it is about time that we as a fan base deserve some type of answer from the Redskins organization.

 

Edit- Cut down quote

[Skinsinparadise]

duplicate post

[Peregrine]

So if Scotty Mac gets canned, in reality we are right back where we were from the start of Dan Snyders tenure.  A team with no GM.  And yes, it definitely looks like Scotty Mac wasnt really ever a true GM, but he was the closest to one we have had.  If he gets fired, and nobody else is brought in to become the GM, it essentially means Bruce Allen is back to being the disaster he has been in that role, and Jay Gruden is acting partially as GM as well.  Whenever a coach does that, with very few exceptions, its a disaster.  

 

So if that were to be true, it would mean that just like 5 years ago, today Dan Snyder just cannot handle someone who isnt his puppet having some control over the team.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

25 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My turn for what?

 

30 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

That's what I was thinking of at the time...just couldn't figure out the right words (and too lazy to google it)...but I did blow it <--- your turn 

"Bolded" = That's what she said. C'mon dude

[Burgold]

5 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

So if Scotty Mac gets canned, in reality we are right back where we were from the start of Dan Snyders tenure.  A team with no GM.  And yes, it definitely looks like Scotty Mac wasnt really ever a true GM, but he was the closest to one we have had.  If he gets fired, and nobody else is brought in to become the GM, it essentially means Bruce Allen is back to being the disaster he has been in that role, and Jay Gruden is acting partially as GM as well.  Whenever a coach does that, with very few exceptions, its a disaster.  

 

So if that were to be true, it would mean that just like 5 years ago, today Dan Snyder just cannot handle someone who isnt his puppet having some control over the team.

I dunno. It sort of seems like Bruce is the defacto GM even while Scott was here. What we are losing is the guy we wanted to be in charge and the best talent judge on the team.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

If the Keim article is correct, meh. Not sure what to think. I wanted to quit this team 3 years ago and McCloughan was the only saving grace. I thought the Rg3 thing was a debacle, but obviously I was proven wrong in that regard (he was a bust, I didn't want to accept it).

 

As for this team, all you have to do is look up top. Dan is deaf to criticism ... and insulates himself with yes men. Bruce is in full control. And the only thing stopping Bruce is Dan and I'm not sure what terrifies me more ...

[Dissident2]

4 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

 IF this has anything to do with him drinking, the Redskins did help him by allowing him to take a leave of absence and do what needs to be done (there is no evidence to confirm or deny that he has been in rehab or working with a counselor during this time, so we don't know). They also helped him by keeping his personal business out of the news as much as possible. 

 

You really think the team helped him by basically putting a huge spotlight on the guy from the moment they muzzled him with zero explanation? Look, if he is drinking again, it's not up to the team to fix that problem for him, I get it, and it's a tough spot for any organization to be in. But if they were trying to "help him keep his personal business out of the news," what they did had just the opposite effect. 

 

You keep him from talking to the media with no explanation, which is when all the speculation understandably started. Then he doesn't show up at the combine and you go with the NONSENSICAL story about him preparing for a funeral that happened two weeks prior. What PR genius doesn't realize that's going to immediatley blow up in your face? Then suddenly it morphs into "family issues" with weird hints that he'll "be back soon." Now FA is here and he's not back, and the responses are even more vague. This is the way buffoons handle a situation like this. All they've done with the way they've handled this is ensure that "Scot's drinking" is talked about more than ever. 

 

Quote

Second, the only people that Scot has to admit anything to in order to get help is his family, his employer (just for the sake of getting the time he needs) and, most importantly, himself.  The public has absolutely ZERO right to know any of this.  Idiot fans and so called journalists may think that they do due to the ****ization of rights, common courtesy, and journalism that have taken place in the society we currently live in, but it really is none of the public's, including the fans', business.  This is a private matter and should be handled privately.  

 

Yes, that's true to a large degree. But sorry, the fact that what he does impacts a professional football team that millions of people are invested in emotionally and otherwise means that SOMETHING is owed in the way of an explanation as to what's going on. There are so many ways that could've been done without humiliating the man, which is what has now happened. 

 

LaConfora is right on the money when he says this:

Quote

 If there are problems going on with him that fans are not privy to, and if the Redskins are trying to do things to help their GM and protect their own best interest, then you can release a statement and do it in an honest and straightforward manner.

 

That's what should've been done from the beginning. But "honest" and "straightforward" are not in the vocabularies of the utter clowns who run this circus. 

[PigskinRedskin]

So if the whole Scot comes true and hes gone, is Bruce just going to add GM to his title or does he know anyone from Tampa?

[dyst]

This team is a joke. They either directly screw up or hire people that **** up. Either way the organization has no clue and yes it starts at the top.

 

They **** up then go hire someone to clean up the mess. Once that person cleans up the mess, they get a boner and want to get involved again so magically that person is fired. Then repeat the cycle again.

[MassSkinsFan]

47 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Point taken. They already know where its heading, then. 

 

Next stop: Cleveland!!!

 

[SoCalSkins]

7 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

So if that were to be true, it would mean that just like 5 years ago, today Dan Snyder just cannot handle someone who isnt his puppet having some control over the team.

 

People don't change. Why would Dan not want to be involved doing what he loves? He has had to put lipstick on the pig to put out a fan base backlash now and again, but at the end of the day, he is the de facto GM. Always will be in the long term, maybe figuratively stepping aside here and there to calm down the masses.