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The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, scruffylookin said:

According to who?

 

Certainly not our new highly respected defensive line coach. 

 

What if he saw Baker as the overrated stiff he is and really likes what he sees potentially in these two signings?

 

I will reserve judgment until I see these two play for us. 

 

I already know Baker is a bum. 

 

Almost even talent scout I have seen comment says neither one of these 2 guys are as good as Baker. Not only that, injury concerns on both of them.

 

Edit: Citation needed. Because I'm not sure, if any input he had on anyone that was released or signed.

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KillBill26

KillBill26

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, SkinsTillIDie said:

That we had interest enough in Bennie Logan to bring him in should be enough to convince everyone that our brass is aware of our weaknesses and isn't done investing in the line.

 

Reminds me of the LifeLock commercial where the security guard mentions they are getting robbed, but doesn't do anything about it.  Or they tell the patient they have a cavity, but doesn't fix it.  I would hope our front office realizes we need to improve the d-line, just like anyone else who has been watching this team recently, so I don't think that's the issue.  Actually bringing people in to upgrade, either through draft or FA, is obviously the problem.  And it's not just the past couple weeks, this has been a glaring weakness for years.    

 

Maybe after all the "Winning the Offseason" shirts have sold out, Bruce can do a production run of shirts that say "Stop worrying that we haven't upgraded the d-line, just be happy we are aware we need to upgrade the d-line".

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carex

carex

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

 

Reminds me of the LifeLock commercial where the security guard mentions they are getting robbed, but doesn't do anything about it.  Or they tell the patient they have a cavity, but doesn't fix it.  I would hope our front office realizes we need to improve the d-line, just like anyone else who has been watching this team recently, so I don't think that's the issue.  Actually bringing people in to upgrade, either through draft or FA, is obviously the problem.  And it's not just the past couple weeks, this has been a glaring weakness for years.    

 

Maybe after all the "Winning the Offseason" shirts have sold out, Bruce can do a production run of shirts that say "Stop worrying that we haven't upgraded the d-line, just be happy we are aware we need to upgrade the d-line".

 

well apparently none of our coaches or front office are good judges of D-line talent, considering we've been trying to do it ever since we went to the 3-4.  I mean even then it wasn't just NT that was bad

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bobandweave

bobandweave

Posted
Posted

The real issue to me is that we let our own guy go and signed two lesser ability guys to replace him, in what world does this make sense? If your going to let a player like Chris Baker go you should try and equal his ability if not surpass it. We did not do that

 

Now for the crowd that says "I'm gonna watch them before judging them" try this on for size. Evan Silva, rotoworld and NFL expert quoted by everyone that knows football ranked his top 100 FA's this year. Chris Baker came in at position 31.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/69780/309/updated-free-agent-top-100?pg=2

 

31. DE Chris Baker (29) -- $7.5-8.5 million/year – 6-foot-2, 326-pound 3-4 end was Washington’s best defensive lineman the past two seasons. Effective run stopper doubles as interior pocket pusher.

 

The two guys that we signed came in at spot 72 and the other did not make the list.

72. DL Stacy McGee (27) -- $4-5.5 million/year – Quality rotational DT/DE coming off his best season.

 

Clearly this is a downgrade for us. That's a major issue. We could have upgraded from Baker, we downgraded. Now before you get your panties twisted about this now consider this. At WR Evan Silva ranked Terrell Pryor as this years number 7 best FA in the whole class. We know we lost Desean Jackson and Pierre Garcon. Evan had them ranked 9th (Jackson) and 24th (Garcon).

 

We all feel okay about Pryor's signing because Pryor is the better player. In this occasion we upgraded. We feel good about upgrading and bad about downgrading. Nothing bad about that. Clearly we did.

 

Now even if you hate Evan Silva and think he doesn't know what he's talking about go around the interwebs and look at the expert rankings and you will see the same. Baker was much better then what we ended up with. Why should the fanbase ignore this?

 

 

 

 

 

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sportjunkie07

sportjunkie07

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, CTskin said:

Exactly my thoughts. I see quite a few people somehow believing McClain/McGee is an upgrade over Baker. Baker beats both of them in just about every metric and statistic. And I love Vernon Davis, but that deal was poor for us. So, $15M on three below average players when we could have signed a legit DT and Zach Brown for that same money. Those acquisitions would have been massively impactful, but instead we're left with the same or slightly worse garbage front 7 and an old TE. All that being said, I'll be more than happy to Rex Ryan my foot if we sign Hankins...

Yep. If not for the Pryor signing which was great imo, this would be a really bad free agency for us. 

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ILikeBilly

ILikeBilly

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

31. DE Chris Baker (29) -- $7.5-8.5 million/year – 6-foot-2, 326-pound 3-4 end was Washington’s best defensive lineman the past two seasons. Effective run stopper doubles as interior pocket pusher.

 

The two guys that we signed came in at spot 72 and the other did not make the list.

72. DL Stacy McGee (27) -- $4-5.5 million/year – Quality rotational DT/DE coming off his best season.

 

Clearly this is a downgrade for us. That's a major issue. We could have upgraded from Baker, we downgraded. Now before you get your panties twisted about this now consider this. At WR Evan Silva ranked Terrell Pryor as this years number 7 best FA in the whole class. We know we lost Desean Jackson and Pierre Garcon. Evan had them ranked 9th (Jackson) and 24th (Garcon).

 

We all feel okay about Pryor's signing because Pryor is the better player. In this occasion we upgraded. We feel good about upgrading and bad about downgrading. Nothing bad about that. Clearly we did.

First - He says Baker is an effective run stopper - we sucked at stopping the run.

Next - He says McGee is a quality DT/DE coming off his best season.  Sounds to me like we got the dude that is on the rise.

 

As for WR, you say Pryor is a better player than Pierre and Desean and therefore we feel okay about it.  Really?  I don't think many people on this board think Pryor is better.  What we do think is that again, we go the dude that is on the rise. 

 

The team is betting on these players getting better with time.  Baker was an up and down player that didn't make the team better.  Maybe the new DL players will make the team better.  Maybe not.  The team is also taking into account our 2nd year players and other new plays (Phil _____) that we picked up this off season.  You need to look at the big picture and at the team as a whole, not just Baker vs new guys.

 

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mcgraw238

mcgraw238

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, carex said:

CSN is looking at Redskins roster depth and they have RJF, Phil Taylor and Stacy McGee as starters, with McClain as a backup.  That definitely seems wrong to me

 

 

 

 

I am only complaining that people are acting like the guy was some sort of franchise savior, when they only stick of for the ability of these players when he is brought up.

 

No mention of Scot, then the Skins are in desperate need at everyone of those positions

 

and I regard 2016 as more of a failure than 2014 because it was obvious we needed impact player to avoid regression from 2015 and he didn't pick them

 

I don't consider SM a franchise savior and I think the fanbase has an unhealthy obsession of creating these scenarios. What I do think is he's a savy football exec who has a solid track record in building rosters through the draft with hits along the way as well as misses. In all, he's a solid exec that can work a draft board and is not likely to flip a 2nd round pick for an aging DE that is not a schematic fit (Jason Smith), or flip multiples picks for a plodding RB (TJ Duckett), or multiples picks to a division rival for a washed up QB (Donovan); all things we have seen during Snyder's tenure and much more (though not all on Bruce's watch). Prior to Scott's arrival the franchise had been run awful in nearly every regard, though I've seen posts where you've suggested otherwise, and accumulated one of the worst win-loss records in the league during Snyder's tenure. And I think anyone with any reasonable amount of objectivity and common sense would agree that the culture in Redskin Park is largely toxic and outright shameful at times in the way that people are treated. There was the quote once that people come to Redskins Park clean but leave dirty. Yet, somehow people continue to stick up for this behavior and it's always, in every instance, apparently the fault of the person departing the franchise. If this is to be believed, then it really is amazing the string of bad luck and misfortune that Snyder has had during his ownership tenure. It really is shocking that the owner's hiring of a QB coach to be OC, prior to hiring the HC by the way, and then promoting your newly hired OC to HC a few weeks later turned into an epic disaster. Then you let your overpaid waste of a FA DT publicly neuter your QBC to OC to HC in plain view. I can see why some of you guys just love the guy.

 

In my opinion, SM left the franchise with greater depth and overall better than what it was when he arrived in DC, but like everyone else he's certainly leaving dirtier than he came in thanks to a hack job by anonymous sources, something the Snyder loyalist loathe. The 2014 draft lead by Bruce Allen provided so much impact that it was followed by a 4-12 season and the subsequent firestorm that prompted Allen to hire SM as his front man. Sure, there were other more pressing areas of need in the 2016 draft but I viewed Doctson as a nice pick at 21 who would step into the starting role in 2017 when it was nearly certain at least one of the WR's would depart. Of course it did not work out because of the injury situation but I'm not sure what asset was sitting there in the draft that was going to make an immediate impact on the D. I'll say it again, I'm willing to give the 2015 and 2016 drafts the same benefit of time that the loyalists are giving to the 2014 draft. I was somewhat surprised last offseason that a little more was not accomplished in FA on the D, and I'm not sure at this point who to pin that on.

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HTTRDynasty

HTTRDynasty

Posted
Posted

Pretty good post by @SkinsTillIDie, but using the Patriots as an example of going for quantity over quality is laughable.  97% of HCs/DCs around the league are incapable of replicating what Belichick and Patricia are able to scheme up every week with that defensive roster.  It's why the best ILB on the market, Hightower, is still out there without a deal and is likely to return to the Patriots. They can forgo overpaying for elite defenders because they are able to lean on the mind of Belichick scheme-wise week to week, and able to lean on the GOAT QB in Brady, playing with a lead much more often than most defenses are able to.

 

What do you think Manusky would do with that defensive roster?

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markmills67

markmills67

Posted
Posted

I can't believe some Skins fans on this forum are saying we have signed 2 below average DL, they haven't even put on a Redskins uniform yet . Give the guys at chance. It's not just Baker we have to replace on the DL it's also RJF and Hood, so let's say we have replaced them 2 with our new signings and we will get our new NT either in FA or early in the draft. I'm saying RJF because he was starting at the end of last year. 

 

HTTR 

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PerryMason

PerryMason

Posted
Posted
Just now, markmills67 said:

I can't believe some Skins fans on this forum are saying we have signed 2 below average DL, they haven't even put on a Redskins uniform yet . Give the guys at chance. It's not just Baker we have to replace on the DL it's also RJF and Hood, so let's say we have replaced them 2 with our new signings and we will get our new NT either in FA or early in the draft. I'm saying RJF because he was starting at the end of last year. 

 

HTTR 

 

Some people just want to be mad.  To me Baker was a slow developing player.  He reached his best this past season.  Who is to say that won't be the case for the guys we signed?  In any case, Baker, even at his best last year, flashed brilliance but wasn't as consistent as I would like to have on the D-Line.  If either one of these guys is more consistent then I'll like the move.  Plus we are not done in FA.  

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, markmills67 said:

I can't believe some Skins fans on this forum are saying we have signed 2 below average DL, they haven't even put on a Redskins uniform yet . Give the guys at chance. It's not just Baker we have to replace on the DL it's also RJF and Hood, so let's say we have replaced them 2 with our new signings and we will get our new NT either in FA or early in the draft. I'm saying RJF because he was starting at the end of last year. 

 

HTTR 

 

And just what NT would you pick in the draft high? Because there really are not any.

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bobandweave

bobandweave

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

First - He says Baker is an effective run stopper - we sucked at stopping the run. - WE is the key word there. Something you seriously missed there or your preposterous in thinking Baker was the only reason we couldn't stop the opposing rusher last year

 

Next - He says McGee is a quality DT/DE coming off his best season.  Sounds to me like we got the dude that is on the rise. - If I wore nothing but off balanced B&G colored glasses and drank nothing but kewl aide then I might take away that as well and ignore the point I just made too. The point I made was that these guys were not closely ranked, clearly in the eyes of a very famous expert we took a huge fat loss in losing Baker for those two guys.

 

As for WR, you say Pryor is a better player than Pierre and Desean and therefore we feel okay about it.  Really?  I don't think many people on this board think Pryor is better. - Most people on this forum never surprise me with how much they post without actually knowing what it is they are talking about. I pointed at what EVAN SILVA thought. Evan Silva is a guest everywhere and considered an expert on the NFL. He's not some poster on a teams forum page. He knows more about football then 99% of the people here pretend to know. When considering opinions consider the source. If the forum doesn't think Pryor is better then Jackson and Garcon would that surprise me? Not at all, nothing about this forum surprises me anymore

 

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CTskin

CTskin

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Over at http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2017all.php

The signing of John Sullivan was rated higher, at #79 than either McClain or McGee

Chris Baker by the Bucs was #17

McClain nor McGee broke the top 100

 

Comparitively, Baker was the #4 DE prospect. McClain was #21 and McGee was #24. So, yeah......

When the best response to all of this has been "I'll reserve judgement until I after I see them play," you know they realize the unfortunate reality, they just don't want to admit it.

 

On the other side of the ball, Pryor is an absolute stud. I'd really like the signing if it wasn't only a one year deal, but in this case I'd much prefer Pryor @$8M to DJax&Garcon @$23M. I don't guarantee much, but barring health and assuming Kirk is the QB, he's going to finish up 2017 with 1,500 yards and 10+TDs and will be regarded as a top tier WR. 

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bobandweave

bobandweave

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Over at http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2017all.php

The signing of John Sullivan was rated higher, at #79 than either McClain or McGee

Chris Baker by the Bucs was #17

McClain nor McGee broke the top 100

 

Comparitively, Baker was the #4 DE prospect. McClain was #21 and McGee was #24. So, yeah......

 

But they are on the rise man....ON THE RISE :kickcan::kickcan::kickcan::kickcan::kickcan:

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bobandweave

bobandweave

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, CTskin said:

When the best response to all of this has been "I'll reserve judgement until I after I see them play," you know they realize the unfortunate reality, they just don't want to admit it.

 

IDK I know that one reply which ignored the expert rankings, and talked about the posters opinions on the forum was pretty good too but yea your right lol

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AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

Posted
Posted

There is quite a bit of quibbling about Baker.  Some think he was overrated.  I thought he was a piece that we should've kept instead of swapping him out.  

 

The problem that I see is that people are forgetting how awful we were on defense last year.  For us to compete for the types of things we want, we need/needed to get demonstrably better on defense.  We need/needed the kinds of moves in FA/draft that would make sure that every segment in the preseason was about all the upgrades we made on defense. 

 

Swearinger and two average DL might take our defense from messy **** to solid turd, but that doesn't move the needle for me.  Hopefully the draft will bring us some defensive studs.  

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carex

carex

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, CTskin said:

When the best response to all of this has been "I'll reserve judgement until I after I see them play," you know they realize the unfortunate reality, they just don't want to admit it.

 

 

 

how about you spend a little less time speaking for others, hmm? McClain was an unheralded part of the top rushing D.  Baker was good, but he was the third best guy on a D that sucked

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