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The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

@Skinsinparadise we didn't pull one single starter out of last year's draft. We got 2 the year before and everyone is ready to walk away from one of them.

 

We've never drafted BPA in my opinion either. We went guard at 5 because it was Scots first draft and he was cant miss and WR last year, because we knew we were letting them go.

 

We signed a slow SS to play FS and now have nobody on the line who can rush the passer.

 

Our ILBs probably don't start for another team.

 

 

 

Preston Smith IMO played enough to be considered at least a rotational starter and I am not giving up on him.  I can't blame Scot for Jarrett getting hurt.  That was a good pick.  2016 was a good draft IMO.   If you generally can find 2-3 starters out of a draft, most say you are doing well.  My difference with some on the draft is expectations.   Once you get to the third round and lower the odds that you are going to miss on the pick is better than 50-50.  

 

For example if you get a part time NT with your 5th round pick -- statistically speaking, that's a good pick not a bad one.  If Doctson plays well this year, Cravens still develops and Matt Ioannidis and Fuller develop as role players, that's a decent draft haul.  Also you got to give time to judge a draft.  But my point about all of this serves my main point which is inflated expectations of the draft.  

 

I know you are on the same page for landing a 1st tier DL in FA.   If the idea is of course we don't fill a need in FA but no biggie who doesn't score big with their 3rd and 4th round picks?  So we should be fine, everyone relax.   Sounds cool in theory.  But most people fail with their 3rd and 4th round picks.  I think we can get too caught up in the giddiness of preparing for the draft and every draft pick is opening up a Christmas present.  But reality is once you get past the first round and mid 2nd round -- the odds start working against you not for you. 

 

https://datascopeanalytics.com/blog/the-chance-of-a-bust-in-the-nfl-draft/

A couple of interesting notes from the graph. First, picking at the end of the second round only gives your team a 50% chance of finding a starter. Going towards the end of the round 3, your chance of finding a starter falls to ~30%. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted

Cooley is doing film study he says so far he sees McGee as a poor man's Chris Baker.  He's unimpressed with what he sees.  Doesn't mean Cooley's right but for whomever's interested that's his take.  Alex Santos by the way seems to go below the radar.  But that's the dude whose job is to evaluate NFL players and free agency.  I'd presume he has some type of lead in FA assessments.  

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley is doing film study he says so far he sees McGee as a poor man's Chris Baker.  He's unimpressed with what he sees.  Doesn't mean Cooley's right but for whomever's interested that's his take.  Alex Santos by the way seems to go below the radar.  But that's the dude whose job is to evaluate NFL players and free agency.  I'd presume he has some type of lead in FA assessments.  

I can't for the life of me understand how they didn't extend an offer to Baker and he ended up signing a short 3 year deal at comparable money to McGee and McClain....as if we are rife with talent on the DL.  Not because Baker is some All Pro but because he's a core Redskin, fan favorite that has eaten crap for this franchise for a while.  I could understand if they were getting something clearly better, but that's not what me or Cooley are seeing.

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SemperFi Skins

SemperFi Skins

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Posted
Just now, Koolblue13 said:

We really need these two moves to happen.

 

A front of Hankins-McClain-McGee, or Hankins-Taylor-McClain with Kerrigan/Galette would be fairly stout... Add in Foster and Brown and you have a fairly dominant front 7 against the run. Sub in Smith or keep Galette for pinning their ears back.

 

Brown can cover TE's which is something we do not have right now.

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MEANDWARF

MEANDWARF

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Posted

The silence in Hankins camp makes me believe that he'll re-sign with the Giants. Brown could be waiting to see how much Hightower gets. I think we should look at Miller whom was recently cut by the Jags. Other than a Achilles Tendon injury, he could be a steal. As far as ILB goes, lets look at Minter. IMO

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
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19 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I can't for the life of me understand how they didn't extend an offer to Baker and he ended up signing a short 3 year deal at comparable money to McGee and McClain....as if we are rife with talent on the DL.  Not because Baker is some All Pro but because he's a core Redskin, fan favorite that has eaten crap for this franchise for a while.  I could understand if they were getting something clearly better, but that's not what me or Cooley are seeing.

 

I was ok for Baker going if replaced with Hankins or Logan.  But if this is the swap, I am very unimpressed as to the D line.  It would be the same old, same old.  We heard the same thing last year -- heck I recall the conversations like maybe Reyes seems like an underwhelming signing but trust the process -- keep in mind, Reyes was really good 2 seasons before and he's a good run stuffer.  Ziggy Hood was a former first rounder, he might bloom here.  We got this guys cheap and on good economic deals.  

 

While we watched the Giants sign three elite players and turn around their horrible defense into a force within one off season.  I defended the previous off season in the context of they likely learned from it and they have the cap room to make major moves this time.  Now, they still can do it and surprise by signing lets say Hankins or Z. Brown or another top tier guy.  But if they don't, I am not going to be sold on the new version of why this D lineman might not jump at you on paper but trust the process.  I've trusted the process -- but I am not going to trust the same approach 3 off seasons in a row.

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nonniey

nonniey

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, zoony said:

Question for the room

is the team better now than at the start of free agency?

Well, that hits the nail on the head doesn't it - right now you'd have to say no.  The WR position has potential to be a wash but as of now you would have to say it is a downgrade, the DL in all likelihood is weaker, the Defensive backfield is the one area that could be stronger.. But of course the big hit was the downgrade in the team's front office. 

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mcgraw238

mcgraw238

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Posted
11 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I don't think I'm alone in disagreeing with your statement about expecting Doctson and Fuller to do "nothing" for us in the future.  And I'm not sure what anyone told you about draft classes, but it's common knowledge that most need 3 years before you can accurately judge the results. 

 

2014 - Trent Murphy, Morgan Moses, Spencer Long, Bashaud Breeland, Ryan Grant

 

Those guys can all easily be put into your "inconsistent or regressed" category 3 years later, which makes Scherff and Crowder stand out even more.  So yes, the 2015 class still has a chance to be the better class.  The rookies on the team definitely performed better than the rookies did in 2014.  They performed about the same their second years.  And the 2016 class is still a huge question mark (which is common for most teams a year after the draft), mostly due to injuries.  I'm sure you were expecting instant results, and the 2015 class did give us those results their rookie year, but that's generally not how this works.

 

He already knows everything you said here. He just felt the continued need to discredit SM no matter how disingenuous the rationale. I've seen the 2014 drafted trumpeted numerous times but apparently the 2016 drafted is an unmitigated failure a mere 10 months later. 

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illone

illone

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Pryor basically gives you another guy similar to Jordan Reed. Big athletic target who can get open all day. 

 

Covering both will be a huge challenge for any defense. Add in Crowder as the 2nd or 3rd option on most plays and I think you can make the case that the receiving core improves next year.  Djax will be missed based on his skill set but the Skins offense is built more for short/intermediate passing which fits this roster perfectly.  I wont be shocked if Reed/Pryor/Crowder all hit 1k yards. 

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HTTRDynasty

HTTRDynasty

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Posted
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Preston Smith IMO played enough to be considered at least a rotational starter and I am not giving up on him.

 

Yea, still not giving up on Preston.  Especially after reading the section below from this article.  He needs to become a better run defender, but he has been a good pass rusher for us.  I think fans lose sight of the fact that he is doing this against premier LTs, while Kerrigan (and a lot of times Murphy as well) get to rush against less talented RTs.
 

Quote

 

9) Washington Redskins (2.83 average distance to quarterback)

 

The Washington defense was worked over on the ground this year, but their secondary and front seven are littered with talented players. Second-year edge defender Preston Smith is their best pass-rusher, ranking 16th in the NFL with 4.03 yards of distance to the quarterback at the time of throw or sack. Smith racked up 13 sacks over his first two seasons. Ryan Kerrigan led the team this year with 11 sacks. Both he and Trent Murphy finished above the NFL average in the Next Gen Stats individual pressure metric for edge players with 100-plus rush attempts. The biggest surprise for Washington had to be the play of defensive end Chris Baker, who ranked 16th among interior pass rushers with 4.29 average yards of distance to the quarterback. Baker heads into free agency this year after a strong season and will command attention if his current team cannot re-sign him.

 

 

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nonniey

nonniey

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Posted
1 hour ago, SkinssRvA said:

Baker is not nearly as good as people here value him.  I have no idea about the two guys we signed to replace him, but Baker was just not that great.  His greatest strength was his versatility.  He routinely missed assignments because he was doing his own thing.  He wasn't particularly stout and rarely collapsed the middle.  

 

I thank him for his service here but to me he was JAG surrounded by bottom-tier talent...making him look better than he actually was.  

The big issue is what we got and especially what we paid to replace him. Most evaluations (all except Allen's) had Baker assessed as significantly better than either McGee or McClain yet we paid more to each of them than what Tampa paid to acquire Baker - that was a major error. When adding in Davis's deal the Redskins wasted over $15-20 million (and maybe more) on those three contacts. That is a huge amount and we could have added a fraction of that to Cousins offer and secured him long term and still have those three players. 

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SemperFi Skins

SemperFi Skins

Posted
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A lot of talk about the offense, which should be just fine... the talk should be about this damn defense and how historically bad it was and has been for years. I cant remember a time when we stopped a TE over the middle on 3rd down or sent a 0 blitz and actually got to the quarterback. There's not really a another way to say it other than this defense sucked. Norman played decent and Baker had his moments, but they plain out sucked as a group.

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CTskin

CTskin

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, nonniey said:

The big issue is what we got and especially what we paid to replace him. Most evaluations (all except Allen's) had Baker assessed as significantly better than either McGee or McClain yet we paid more to each of them than what Tampa paid to acquire Baker - that was a major error. When adding in Davis's deal the Redskins wasted over $15-20 million (and maybe more) on those three contacts. That is a huge amount and we could have added a fraction of that to Cousins offer and secured him long term and still have those three players. 

Exactly my thoughts. I see quite a few people somehow believing McClain/McGee is an upgrade over Baker. Baker beats both of them in just about every metric and statistic. And I love Vernon Davis, but that deal was poor for us. So, $15M on three below average players when we could have signed a legit DT and Zach Brown for that same money. Those acquisitions would have been massively impactful, but instead we're left with the same or slightly worse garbage front 7 and an old TE. All that being said, I'll be more than happy to Rex Ryan my foot if we sign Hankins...

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nonniey

nonniey

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Posted
3 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Exactly my thoughts. I see quite a few people somehow believing McClain/McGee is an upgrade over Baker. Baker beats both of them in just about every metric and statistic. And I love Vernon Davis, but that deal was poor for us. So, $15M on three below average players when we could have signed a legit DT and Zach Brown for that same money. Those acquisitions would have been massively impactful, but instead we're left with the same or slightly worse garbage front 7 and an old TE. All that being said, I'll be more than happy to Rex Ryan my foot if we sign Hankins...

Oh it is even worse than that - by over paying McClain/McGee we sabotaged the probability we'd get comp picks in 2018. Allen is coming across as totally incompetent as a GM to me.

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SkinssRvA

SkinssRvA

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Posted
23 minutes ago, nonniey said:

The big issue is what we got and especially what we paid to replace him. Most evaluations (all except Allen's) had Baker assessed as significantly better than either McGee or McClain yet we paid more to each of them than what Tampa paid to acquire Baker - that was a major error. When adding in Davis's deal the Redskins wasted over $15-20 million (and maybe more) on those three contacts. That is a huge amount and we could have added a fraction of that to Cousins offer and secured him long term and still have those three players. 

valid point, as I stated I don't know anything about the two guys we picked up.  

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Hail2theSkins24

Hail2theSkins24

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Posted
2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think the Pryor signing has the potential to be a major boom. Kirk likes to lock on to a receiver and with Pryor having such size and speed, it could really add a dimension we didn't have with Garcon and Djax. 

 

 Kirk is one of the better QBs at working through his reads and getting the ball out quickly, but yeah I think Pryor will put up big #'s if he stays healthy

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