Hersh Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Force1958 said: Try and debunk what I said then. Go ahead. Which part? Like removing barriers to free trade, which directly contradicts a trade war that Trump started? Like the new trade deal between Mexico, US and Canada being NAFTA simply renamed with a few changes? Like the impact of steel tariffs on the entire economy and how few jobs they created in the steel industry vs the impact of price increased on other goods we consume? Like how trickle down economics never works and this has been proven and only requires some google searches to read up on? Did I miss anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, PF Chang said: You're glad he eliminated Obama era restrictions on free trade but in the same post you're happy about getting out of the North American Free Trade Agreement and happy about tariffs. This doesn't make sense. That's because all he did was basically list the same things you will hear any show on Fox list. There is never any explanation of how it correlates, just statements like "cutting the corporate tax rate trickles down because......I say it does" even though it is a common known fact that isn't how corporate tax cuts work. I will give him the Obamacare part, but only partially because Obamacare barely ever got to function the way it was supposed to in a lot of states out of outright refusal to participate in the process. It was a "Obamacare doesn't work, and I will show you by my attempts to sabotage it in every way I can" situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 39 minutes ago, Force1958 said: Most of the crowd on this forum are Trump haters so it does no good for me to debate them on the topic. Its not us, its you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Force1958 said: NAFTA equals a bad deal for the US from the moment we were a part of it. What did we get out of it based on much we contributed. That's why we opted out when we did. Trump saw it as an unfair trade agreement. Go ahead and name one benefit we got out of NAFTA over the years. Why don't you just do your own reading on the benefits then let us know why you think any negative impact of NAFTA outweighs the benefits. If can't acknowledge one benefit yourself, it's useless for others to attempt to convince you of benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force1958 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Llevron said: Its not us, its you. It's me, what, exactly? I'm just responding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 One would think conservatives would have had a problem with the President cozying up to strongmen like Putin and Kim Jong-un. Or at least, rational conservatives. I'd suspect it would have been an automatic disqualifier for any prior President. That's what is so bizarre to me about the maga love from the Trumpets. Party over country, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Just now, Force1958 said: It's me, what, exactly? I'm just responding... Look at how the liberals respond to Buzz (conservative) and Tshile (conservative) compared to how they respond to you. Its not because the libs disagree with you. It because of the way you present yourself in large part. And im not the first person to point this out to you. You ignored or didnt understand the first time. If you do it again people are never gonna take you seriously. Actually this is the second time I have said this to you myself. So....yea Yes people disagree with you. Many of them disagree with me too. Its not because they are libs/"dimms" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Also there’s a difference between having a different opinion and having a terrible opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: One would think conservatives would have had a problem with the President cozying up to strongmen like Putin and Kim Jong-un. Or at least, rational conservatives. I'd suspect it would have been an automatic disqualifier for any prior President. That's what is so bizarre to me about the maga love from the Trumpets. Party over country, I guess. Its a dream for many of those conservatives to have a regressive society where one man makes all the decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 AND @Force1958 I dont say that cause I want you to stop disagreeing with us. Its nice to have more conservatives in the convo to be honest. Im tired of picking fights with @twa. I say that because eventually people will just see you as another troll at some point and it would be more fun to have a differing opinion than just another troll. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 16 minutes ago, Force1958 said: NAFTA equals a bad deal for the US from the moment we were a part of it. What did we get out of it based on much we contributed. That's why we opted out when we did. Trump saw it as an unfair trade agreement. Go ahead and name one benefit we got out of NAFTA over the years. The new trade agreement isn’t that different from nafta.... what specifically about the old deal was bad, what specifically makes the new one better.. trumps own intellegence agencies think pulling out of the Iran deal was a mistake. The Iran deal was about nukes, but trump wants to put all of Iran’s misdeeds into his reasoning for pulling out of the deal. That seems unfair. The only reason that your kids can’t afford Obamacare is because Republicans stripped the bill of its teeth by getting rid of the penalty for not having insurance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, Force1958 said: NAFTA equals a bad deal for the US from the moment we were a part of it. What did we get out of it based on much we contributed. That's why we opted out when we did. Trump saw it as an unfair trade agreement. Go ahead and name one benefit we got out of NAFTA over the years. The point is that your views on Trump's trade policies are contradictory. The problem with debating Trump supporters isn't "Trump haters" opposing you, it's that you guys never actually understand the things you're arguing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, Force1958 said: It's me, what, exactly? I'm just responding... Blowing off people who respond to misinformation as just “trump haters” is a start::: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: trumps own intellegence agencies think pulling out of the Iran deal was a mistake. The Iran deal was about nukes, but trump wants to put all of Iran’s misdeeds into his reasoning for pulling out of the deal. That seems unfair. I think more needs to be added to this and it highlights what is even more dangerous about Trump. I hated the Iran deal. I thought it was a bad deal. I agreed with Trump when he said it was a bad deal. But here's the rub. We agreed to it (the USA did). By pulling out of it when everyone agrees they weren't breaking it makes it just that much harder for Trump or any future president to make deals. Other nations will know the deals can't be guaranteed for more than 4 years at absolute most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I think more needs to be added to this and it highlights what is even more dangerous about Trump. I hated the Iran deal. I thought it was a bad deal. I agreed with Trump when he said it was a bad deal. But here's the rub. We agreed to it (the USA did). By pulling out of it when everyone agrees they weren't breaking it makes it just that much harder for Trump or any future president to make deals. Other nations will know the deals can't be guaranteed for more than 4 years at absolute most. Plus I would argue is, what is the alternative Trump presented? I don't think anyone, liberal or conservative saw the Iran deal as a beacon of perfect foreign policy, but it was a start? A step in the right direction? Something? And reports seem to suggest Iran was adhering to it. Now that the Iran deal is gone, what is in it's place? Mustache Man's dream of going to war with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, NoCalMike said: Plus I would argue is, what is the alternative Trump presented? I don't think anyone, liberal or conservative saw the Iran deal as a beacon of perfect foreign policy, but it was a start? A step in the right direction? Something? And reports seem to suggest Iran was adhering to it. Now that the Iran deal is gone, what is in it's place? Mustache Man's dream of going to war with them? This can be applied to almost all things Trump. Health care/Obamacare is another example. “Obamacare bad and I’ve got the best health care plan ever. I’m not gonna tell you what it is until after the election.” To be fair to Trump that applies to the entire GOP on health care but the point remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Force1958 said: NAFTA equals a bad deal for the US from the moment we were a part of it. What did we get out of it based on much we contributed. That's why we opted out when we did. Trump saw it as an unfair trade agreement. Go ahead and name one benefit we got out of NAFTA over the years. Exports to Mexico went up five and a half times what they had been pre-NAFTA levels. Integrated supply chains brought the cost of American cars down by about $1000, making them more competitive. Export related industry wages are on average about 10% higher than other industries. NAFTA, despite an initial setback from the collapse of the peso, was a success. The "concessions" Trump negotiated from Mexico were roughly the same ones Mexico had already agreed to as part of TPP. One thing that needs clearing up - George H W Bush negotiated NAFTA (its original proposal came from Reagan). He just didn't have the votes to get it passed. If Trump's trade policies are so beneficial, why are we suddenly offering almost a trillion dollars in new subsidies to farmers to offset losses from his policy. Why is the government subsidizing jobs in Indiana to the tune of around $500k per worker. Why have all the critics of socialism, other than the brilliant George Will, fallen silent rather than denouncing this egregious expansion of the nanny state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCB Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Additionally, Force1958, if you actually think that most presidents have committed most of the infractions the marine listed you are deeply, deeply, deeply out of touch with political history. Prove it, if you're serious. (I write this with a high degree of confidence that you're not.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 This thread sucks. I’ll maybe try again tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 4 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: The only reason that your kids can’t afford Obamacare is because Republicans stripped the bill of its teeth by getting rid of the penalty for not having insurance Which brings up a point about the ACA that I've been shouting the whole time: Remember when the biggest complaint about health care was that those of us who were insured had to pay for those of us who weren't? The penalty went a long way to fixing that. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Why are you all even attempting to continue that conversation? Just put on the ignore list and move on. It’s a throwaway account that was created only to troll. How is treating any discussion with legitimacy with what you would describe as a “bot“ on any other message board worth anyone’s time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said: Why are you all even attempting to continue that conversation? Just put on the ignore list and move on. It’s a throwaway account that was created only to troll. How is treating any discussion with legitimacy with what you would describe as a “bot“ on any other message board worth anyone’s time? Thats how starved we are for some....ANY kind of intellectual faculties from Trump land.... And TWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Good thing he was just joking. Cause..ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said: This explains neoconservatism so much (especially the line about it not being real since he can't see it). Well, Pete's one person I wouldn't invite to the take part in an office potluck if I worked at Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, drowland said: Well, Pete's one person I wouldn't invite to the take part in an office potluck if I worked at Fox. Yeah I edited it afterwards.. realizing I missed the joke. If there was one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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