Next Day Thread: Sam Howell Just Got Sacked Again! (Buffalo Edition)

[Alexa]

We have just an average team playing a young QB who was drafted in the 5th round. In year 4 of Ron this team should be farther along but it is what it is.

[Die Hard]

26 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Serious question…

 

Do you believe EB is game planning/play calling with winning as the #1 priority?  Or he dialing stuff up with talent evaluation as the priority?

 

Cause it sure feels like the second option most of the time.

Except that Curtis Samuel, in an interview this past week, said that the guys believe in EB’s game plan now.

 

Unless of course, by “guys”, he meant exclusively the receivers. 😂😂

[Xameil]

14 hours ago, KDawg said:

I heard there was a guy in a ref shirt in the aisle. He turned, saw the hit and then grabbed a spatula off the shelf and handed it to Wylie… who also happened to ironically be in the same room.

Pretty sure he was doing his other job as a turnstile.

[Riggo#44]

16 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The play calling today was some of the worst that I've ever seen. EB just seems to want to keep doing the same thing (pass to TEs) and doesn't want to change to what's working.

 

I don't think Sam was really right in the head most of that game. The ghosts got to him early today. 

 

We can run the ball pretty well. ****ing do it! CRod and Armah, get the in the game. 

 

The bull**** at the end of the game was awful. 

 

I was interested to see what Bieniemy could/would do herre--but something kept bothering me: Since when do we outsmart the rest of the league. It's a bit of a red flag that no one else wanted him, except us. I saw we had the 2nd most offensive plays that were perfectly covered. That's not a good sign. Hopefully, he can make the adjustments, changes to open up the offense.

That said, this team offense probably looks different if we don't turn the ball over 8 times against Arizona and Buffalo...

[UK Skins]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The offense clearly takes the brunt of the blame for yesterday.  But the D barely sniffed Allen.  It was a miracle they were held to 16 for as long as they were.  
 

With as many resources poured into the defense as we have, it’s disappointing for them to give up so many back breaking 3rd downs early in the game before it was evident the O had nothing to offer.

 

This was exactly how I remembered the game. We just couldn't stop them on third down, I was tearing my hair out. I mean the offense was bad but so was the defence.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I was interested to see what Bieniemy could/would do herre--but something kept bothering me: Since when do we outsmart the rest of the league. It's a bit of a red flag that no one else wanted him, except us. I saw we had the 2nd most offensive plays that were perfectly covered. That's not a good sign. Hopefully, he can make the adjustments, changes to open up the offense.

That said, this team offense probably looks different if we don't turn the ball over 8 times against Arizona and Buffalo...

I've said the same thing from day one. EB was a nepotism hire by a lame duck HC.

 

The "he'll scheme us out of it" crown is pretty quiet though.

1 minute ago, UK Skins said:

 

This was exactly how I remembered the game. We just couldn't stop them on third down, I was tearing my hair out. I mean the offense was bad but so was the defence.

This had to be the most lopsided performance by our team that I can remember. 

 

If someone told you yesterday before the game that our defense would hold the Bills to 16 points through 3 Q and Allen would finish with 217 and 1 TD, would think we would win or lose that game? 

 

Or defense isn't going to dominate anyone, because our LBers sucks and it leaves a big hole for teams to run and hit TEs. That was the other big issue besides OL this offseason.

[philibusters]

Yesterday was difficult to watch, but I kind of saw it coming.  I figured Howell would have some rough games and the O-Line would have some rough games and there would be a couple games this season where they both had rough games during the same game and that was yesterday.  In terms of Howell, it is not a big deal that he had a rough game.   That was predictable.   What is important is how he responds to the rough game and if he learns from it and improves.   And only time will provide the answer to question of how he'll deal with these games, but I am not upset or discouraged with the team right now.  

[Koolblue13]

Just now, philibusters said:

Yesterday was difficult to watch, but I kind of saw it coming.  I figured Howell would have some rough games and the O-Line would have some rough games and there would be a couple games this season where they both had rough games during the same game and that was yesterday.  In terms of Howell, it is not a big deal that he had a rough game.   That was predictable.   What is important is how he responds to the rough game and if he learns from it and improves.   And only time will provide the answer to question of how he'll deal with these games, but I am not upset or discouraged with the team right now.  

The play calling is the only thing that really upset me.

[skinsfan66]

36 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

Yes, that makes no sense to me.  The defense was the least of my concerns yesterday.  Through 3 quarters, the Bills only had 1 offensive TD and 16 Pts, 3 of which were gifted by one of our Turnovers.  We were doing an excellent job until the 4th Q, when the dam broke.  No defense in the NFL can maintain that level of play, when your offense craps the bed after each drive and after every turnover.  A 2 score game entering the 4th Q was all anyone could ask for.  The defense should be upset at the offense for what transpired yesterday.  The scoreboard says 37-3, but Allen only threw for 218 Yds, and 1TD.  It wasn't like we were being boat raced by the Bills offense yesterday.  They did just enough to win, and capitalized on our many turnovers and excellent field position. 

We had zero pressure on Allen the whole game and when we got close to him he just took off. The score could have been 28 to 0. Did we have any sacks or pressures, turnovers, 3rd down stops? Not many, we stopped the run early except Allen but could not stop it later, that's it. D sucked yesterday too!  Also you play 4 quarters not 3. 

10 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

 

This was exactly how I remembered the game. We just couldn't stop them on third down, I was tearing my hair out. I mean the offense was bad but so was the defence.

Me too? D sucked yesterday as did the O.

 

[@DCGoldPants]

after a day to digest this. A few thoughts

 

• Needed more of an adjustment into quick plays in the 2nd half. Snap/Throw, Snap/Throw until that backed the defense off a bit.
• I do think the OL had a terrible day. Even if Sam did also. The OL talent is on Ron and Marty the front office guys more than an OL coach right now.
• DL not getting home was an issue. Also, more than a few "experts" talked about if Allen is going to scramble, make him go to his left because to his right, he's deadly. We didn't really seem to try to exploit that. Even though, maybe we did and their productions just worked really well.
• Going for it on 4th down in the 2nd Quarter goes on the list of things Ron seemingly gets wrong more often than not. Get on the board. Yes, you believe in your defense but they didn't hold enough there and probably was very deflating. If you got 3 and they went down and got the 3 back, it's probably a different vibe.
• Aside from the terrible offense 3 games into a new system. It was a bad defensive display 4 years into that system. That should be a bigger topic this week.

In summary, like many have already said, next week will be telling just seeing how prepared they are. This still feels like a limbo season with ownership possibly doing the hardest or reboots next offseason in the front office and coaching staff. 

[philibusters]

I don't agree that the D sucked yesterday.  I thought they played okay.   Josh Allen is considered the second or third best QB in the league behind Mahomes and he played a good game yesterday.   Between the way he can throw balls into a tight window and his ability to run, when the Bills offense is on, he can defeat good defense.  That is what is tough about the elite QB's is that even when the defense executes properly, they can extend plays and make throws out of structure (like on that play where Diggs beat Forbes, Allen extended the play then threw Diggs a perfect ball on the run) or just fit balls into a tight window (like that one that Kam Curl played perfectly but couldn't quite make the play) and Allen did a little bit of both yesterday on those third down conversions.  

 

All that said, I am not convinced the defense played great yesterday, but I didn't think they played poorly either.  They were up against one of the best QB's in the league and Allen was playing well.

[Chachie]

Put it behind you, my friends. They didn't even show up. The loss isn't an anomaly but the performance is.

 

Our o-line is bad. We knew that going in. It seems to be awful for the first 3-4 games of every season but tightens up by mid-season. (Not enough to be "good" but it does tighten up.)

 

The team isn't as bad as they looked yesterday but they're not as good as we hoped. It takes time to adjust. The teams we beat this season are bad teams and I knew we'd lose to Buffalo. Not by 34 points but hey- if you picked a win yesterday you're kidding yourself. The Bills are elite.

 

Sam Howell's first bad game in the NFL. Every QB has plenty of bad games if they are lucky enough to have a starting career beyond a season or two. 

 

On to Philadelphia.

[samy316]

15 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

We had zero pressure on Allen the whole game and when we got close to him he just took off. The score could have been 28 to 0. Did we have any sacks or pressures, turnovers, 3rd down stops? Not many, we stopped the run early except Allen but could not stop it later, that's it. D sucked yesterday too!  Also you play 4 quarters not 3. 

Me too? D sucked yesterday as did the O.

 

 

No, I disagree with this.  We held the Bills to 16 points through 3 quarters yesterday.  We did as good a job as we possibly could against an all-world QB and a top ranked offense.  Allen and Mahommes are in a different stratosphere when it comes to escaping a collapsing pocket and making throws on the run.  You're not going to keep guys like that down for very long.  The dam burst in the 4th Quarter, and the D couldn't withstand all the punts and turnovers created by the offense.  What defense in the NFL is going to overcome 9 sacks and 5 turnovers by an NFL offense?  The D gets a pass from me for what happened yesterday.  No way the D gets any blame for what happened yesterday.  This is all on EB and his crackhead playcalling as well as the O-Line that Ron failed to improve during his tenure.  

Edited September 25, 2023 by samy316

[JSSkinz]

For the D it was that 98 yd drive that was disappointing but if we had any offense it's probably a one possession game going into the 4th Qtr.

[Warhead36]

I think EB's idea is to develop us into an offense that can win throwing the football, because that's how the best teams sustain success in today's NFL. Which means to some extent throwing Howell to the wolves and seeing if he can figure it out. That's why we're always coming out throwing the ball, and to be fair, we have had success moving the ball early in games. But then we get inside the 50, the field condenses some, and we self destruct. I'm normally not a "RUN THE BALL!!!" guy, not in today's NFL, but I think we'll have to adjust to that route a little bit more if we don't want Howell to get killed.

2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

For the D it was that 98 yd drive that was disappointing but if we had any offense it's probably a one possession game going into the 4th Qtr.

The Defense was bad yesterday, but it was kind of like a "reasonable" bad if that makes sense. They were facing an MVP caliber QB who was on his game. When that happens, holding them to 16 thru 3 quarters is actually kinda okay. The 3rd down defense was awful but it was mostly Allen just making plays. It wasn't like guys were just getting abused in the secondary, but Allen was a man among boys. Sometimes you face Michael Jordan and he drops 40 on you.

 

The Offense was an abomination on all fronts, except Brian Robinson looked good running the ball.

[NoVaSkins21]

Rivera and Co.'s approach to the building the OL through his entire tenure has hindered this team severely.  

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Rivera and Co.'s approach to the building the OL through his entire tenure has hindered this team severely.  

He inherited an OL with Trent Williams, Chase Roullier, Brandon Scherff, and Morgan Moses. An All Pro and future HOFer, a perennial Pro Bowler, and two solid starters. Now you can't blame him for Roullier, he got wrecked by injuries, but he let all the others go for essentially nothing.

[NoVaSkins21]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

He inherited an OL with Trent Williams, Chase Roullier, Brandon Scherff, and Morgan Moses. An All Pro and future HOFer, a perennial Pro Bowler, and two solid starters. Now you can't blame him for Roullier, he got wrecked by injuries, but he let all the others go for essentially nothing.

He inherited a potentially dominant OL and thanks to bad management and other factors involving Trent it's all gone.  He's been below average to terrible in terms of the personnel side.

[Warhead36]

This past FA and draft class doesn't appear great on the OL, but in retrospect where we really effed up was previous off seasons.

 

In 2021 we could have drafted Darrisaw over Davis in the 1st. Darrisaw has blossomed into a potential stud franchise LT. Davis is better than he has been at OLB, but even a decent LT > an elite OLB and Davis ain't elite.

 

In 2022 we could have had Linderbaum at C over Dotson. Now I like Dotson, but he's barely being used thus far this season. Meanwhile Linderbaum looks like a franchise C for the next decade.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I've said the same thing from day one. EB was a nepotism hire by a lame duck HC.

 

The "he'll scheme us out of it" crown is pretty quiet though.

I felt like EB was the best Ron could do.  Firing Scott went hand in hand with him leveraging his relationship with Andy to facilitate EB to DC.  I’ll take my chances with someone that close to Big Red.  It’s not like EB had been interviewing for OC jobs, he was being turned down for head coaching jobs which are two different things.  I can see how someone with his demeanor would be threatening to the top brass of NFL teams.  I’ve seen guys he coached go to bat for him regularly.

 

That said, yesterday was particularly alarming.  If he legit has no plans to run the ball conventionally - I just don’t see how the offense can work with the pieces we have.

 

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 hour ago, Alexa said:

We have just an average team playing a young QB who was drafted in the 5th round. In year 4 of Ron this team should be farther along but it is what it is.

This is the crux of everything for me. 
 

It’s such a bizarre way to construct a team to be honest. I’d argue that outside of the most important position, the team is ready to be a consistent playoff team. Problem is that the coach is trying to win games while simultaneously bring along an extremely raw rookie QB. From a philosophical team building POV, it makes no sense and is why I don’t have a ton of faith in the plan. 
 

I think Howell will be a really solid QB one day but it might be a few years. I remember Kirk had a few stinkers in the same vein in ‘13 and ‘14 before he really figured it out later on in 2015. I don’t think they’re similar at all style wise but I think their talent levels/career expectations are within the same tiers. (Also, this is a good thing for anyone that gets weird about Kirk). 
 

For this team, I think you’re eventually going to have a point where you might have to decide between what’s best for winning the next game and what’s best for Sam’s development. I know we all pretty much exclusively care about the latter but embattled NFL coaches under microscopes are just trying to survive the next day…

 

Seems like the entire vision for the season is disjointed. I had a fleeting Hail Mary type hope that Sam was just one of those rare hidden gem types that is able to overcome the nonsense around him but no, he’s just a normal talented QB that needs time and nurturing. I’m just not sure he’s going to get it. That roller coaster ride ( A+ or F- performances week to week) is something that would have made sense for year 1 or 2 of a rebuild. Seems so out of place in this current situation. 

[Riggo#44]

This is not good, either.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

18 hours ago, Destino said:

 

But is PFF going to tell us that Washington had some of the best pass blocking rates in the league this week?

[Captain James]

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

For the D it was that 98 yd drive that was disappointing but if we had any offense it's probably a one possession game going into the 4th Qtr.

This whole point in the game was an embarrassing "punking" from the Bills. We fail to score a TD deep in the redzone, and then our "vaunted" D let's them just pick up the ball and walk all the way down the field with it. Disgusting.

[steve09ru]

Yesterday was decided early and really came down to decision making and turnover (line play didn’t help but we went down early and they didn’t have to defend the run after) and lack of creativity on 3rd down defense — see first 2 drives where they converted what? 4 3rd and 8 or greater? 
 

I’d also like to see a little more run balance early but we move the ball and then take a big sack or 2 when we are in fg range and stall so I’m less hesitant on play calling (maybe once we get in field goal range?)