Next Day Thread: Sam Howell Just Got Sacked Again! (Buffalo Edition)

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, method man said:

 

What about the play design? That as a major issue with Turner

 

I get the vibe from Jay's appearance that he wasn't impressed with Bieniemy's scheme yesterday but didn't want to call him out.

 

 

 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

Yeah better not blitz getting shutout, and drop 8 instead... playing scared of Allen didn't work.   We can blame our offenses futility but when our vaunted front littered with 1st round picks cannot get a sack they failed. They failed, and the game plan failed. Turnovers wont fall into our laps against real QBs.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

I would have left him in - I said so in the game thread. But not to take a beating.

 

I would have said to him "You are our guy, I believe in you and I'm going to have you finish what you started - but I'm going to protect you with play calls". Leaving him and still doing deep drops and taking time outs to get a chance to score 3 - thats what I have an issue with. We should have been running the ball and if we threw it should have been screen or quick game period.

 

 

 

Jay wasn't hardcore on the point, he said he gets the other side.   But he subscribes to the idea that getting hit too much can eventually effect a QB's psyche.  Considering Jay played QB, I gather his opinion is from first hand experience.

 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

The problem was not that they left Sam out there in general.

Its that they left him out there as an attempt to save face in a situation where there was none to save.

 

There was no attempt to protect him, in fact they exposed him to an even greater degree. All so they could have a shot to not lose 37-0. Congratulations.

 

Coaching staff was hanging Sam out to dry all game with the gameplan and playcalling, then you run him out there in a mandatory passing situation where the D can just tee off on him.

And tee off they did. Sam got crushed.

 

 

At the end of the game, this coaching staff clearly did not care about getting Sam reps.

They also did not care about keeping Sam healthy.

 

All they wanted was to not get shutout, and they were more than willing to blood sacrifice Sam to do it.

It was disrespectful, bush league, pathetic and wrong.

[RandyHolt]

OK so I did a 2nd season fantasy just so I could draft Jahan too soon to make sure I got him. Do I need to drop him to get a redzone target?? ARG if EB is going to go pass happy on offense he needs to feature his best receivers. FULL HOCKEY STOP.  Its maybe not even debatable that Jahan is the 2nd best player on offense. Yet he only gets 5 targets a game. I have been beating the drums predicting TEs were going to be core to what EB wanted to do starting week 1 but he needs to recognize failure; the TE room is weak af and they have no chemistry with Howl. EB needs a much better game plan in place for Philly. I know its tough with our OL but then run the damn ball, and find ways to get Jahan & TMC the damn ball.

Edited September 25, 2023 by RandyHolt

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Truly reminds me of these same types of debates from 2013 and 2014. 
 

I think Sam will be a decent QB some day but I also think the sacks will always be a part of his game. You take the big plays with the bad.

[kingdaddy]

38 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Yeah better not blitz getting shutout, and drop 8 instead... playing scared of Allen didn't work.   We can blame our offenses futility but when our vaunted front littered with 1st round picks cannot get a sack they failed. They failed, and the game plan failed. Turnovers wont fall into our laps against real QBs.

 

 

Love seeing these film clips, helps me understand what we're doing wrong and not doing right. Thanks for sharing.

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Jay wasn't hardcore on the point, he said he gets the other side.   But he subscribes to the idea that getting hit too much can eventually effect a QB's psyche.  Considering Jay played QB, I gather his opinion is from first hand experience.

 

 

 

Amen

[kingdaddy]

19 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Coaching staff was hanging Sam out to dry all game with the gameplan and playcalling, then you run him out there in a mandatory passing situation where the D can just tee off on him.

 

It's inexcusable and should be another nail in the coffin to fire RR after the season if it ends up leaning that way. Coaches can do a great deal of damage to a young QB's psyche and Jay Gruden all but said that based on some of the posts I've read from all of you today. The Mike Lombardi "coaching malpractice" remarks keep coming into my mind when I watch RR do stuff like this. And RR is the same coach who's watched multiple starting QB's go down to injury in his tenure here (Alex Smith, Fitz, Wentz).....you think he'd have learned. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[El Mexican]

14 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Probably, because they wouldn’t attempt so many passes with him behind center, because he’s not a good passer.

 

Makes sense.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RandyHolt]

Maybe its high time to fire the OL coach or TE coach or whoever it is. I hated Callahan because his OL couldn't stop stunts. Once he was gone it was problem solved.  While Sam may take a lot of blame, the OL really cannot get all that much worse. Bring in a bingo guy or one of our hog alums milling around Fedex.

Edited September 25, 2023 by RandyHolt

[KDawg]

24 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Truly reminds me of these same types of debates from 2013 and 2014. 
 

I think Sam will be a decent QB some day but I also think the sacks will always be a part of his game. You take the big plays with the bad.

I’d like to see the actual numbers. 66% could still be a higher than typical number for pressures faced. Howell being responsible for 25% isn’t shocking, either. But I don’t think Bienemy and the receivers should free skate through this, either.

[El Mexican]

17 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

There was a masking effect all right, and it was because TH sucked so bad, we didn't even try to pass the ball and thus our terrible pass blocking was less exposed.

 

Unreal

 

Yep, all of those things you listed are spot-on. 

 

And yet, in games with teams as solid as Buffalo a semi-rookie is gonna struggle big time with our paper mache O-Line.

I'm not sure that would have happened to the former guy since the coaches were building the O in a very conservative way.

 

So yes, I firmly believe our deficiencies were masked by TH running like a madman when he faced strong defenses and only threw when he absolutely needed to. Now with Howell we are getting totally exposed in a bad way.

[JSSkinz]

After seeing some of the plays being posted today holding the ball isn't the only issue, Sam was forcing balls to WRs that weren't open without letting himself work through his reads.  I don't know how prevalent this was but it happened when we turned the ball over on downs at their 3-yard line.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It’s pretty strange seeing things like that and then seeing the stats that PFF is throwing around. I’d love to know what they consider a pressure, how time to throw before pressure is defined, etc. Howell sits in the pocket, which is one explanation for why his time to throw is a bit higher possibly, depending on their definition. He doesn’t bail as often, which is both a detriment and something that helps him make plays. 
 

I’d also like to know how uniform their time to pressure stats are amongst different statisticians. I am not a big fan of PFF when it comes to OL and all things OL related. Never have been. So I have my doubts on the numbers when my eyes see something very different.

 

Having said that… Howell being responsible for 25% of his pressures isn’t crazy to me… but even then… how is that defined? Are receivers not being open on Howell? Or are receivers open that Howell is missing. Context matters to parse this stuff.

[kingdaddy]

9 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

 

Yep, all of those things you listed are spot-on. 

 

And yet, in games with teams as solid as Buffalo a semi-rookie is gonna struggle big time with our paper mache O-Line.

I'm not sure that would have happened to the former guy since the coaches were building the O in a very conservative way.

 

So yes, I firmly believe our deficiencies were masked by TH running like a madman when he faced strong defenses and only threw when he absolutely needed to. Now with Howell we are getting totally exposed in a bad way.

TH was likely more decisive because he'd been in Turner's offense for so long...maybe Howell is struggling in two major facets; learning the speed and details of reading defenses of the NFL game and learning EB's offense? 

Did you see the stat tonight that Jaylen Hurts is 19-1 in his last 2 regular season starts???? Only the 2022 Commanders beat him. Pretty amazing....and it was in Philly. We played that game close to the vest and dominated time of possession...maybe RR needs to sit EB down and watch that game over some beers and cheesesteaks.

[Skinsinparadise]

the issue with PFF among other things is they don’t factor context in their scores.

 

For example 4 man rushes with 7 in converge  especially facing our 6 man protects make it more difficult for Howell to get the ball out considering less weapons are available to make plays and defenders from the opposing team can more easily cover. Hence Howell has to hold on to the ball longer waiting for someone to get open,

 

But PFF won’t factor that context they will just grade the O lineman on each play.   But part of the reason why Howell had to hold onto the ball delves into the o line considering teams can bring heat with just 4.

 

And if we fixate on stats how about the stats that Terry and Dotson are struggling to separate against these 7 man coverages.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[WilberMarshall]

Can someone send a memo out to EB that this is the NFC-East?

 

You need to learn how to run the ball on a consistent basis. This O-Line is not built to pass protect. 

 

I won't mind if Sam goes back to a 2 read and tuck the ball and run or throw it away scheme. 

 

The good thing is that unlike in years past we are at least going to end the first quarter of the season .500 or better.

 

But for goodness sake, protect the kid from himself. 

[Daniel.redskins]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Yeah better not blitz getting shutout, and drop 8 instead... playing scared of Allen didn't work.   We can blame our offenses futility but when our vaunted front littered with 1st round picks cannot get a sack they failed. They failed, and the game plan failed. Turnovers wont fall into our laps against real QBs.

 

 

Why is the corner and end both playing zone in the same zone?  Inexcusable to let diggs drift all alone.  There were literally 4 guys standing around covering nothing.  Allen stared him down the whole time.  

[El Mexican]

12 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

TH was likely more decisive because he'd been in Turner's offense for so long...maybe Howell is struggling in two major facets; learning the speed and details of reading defenses of the NFL game and learning EB's offense? 

Did you see the stat tonight that Jaylen Hurts is 19-1 in his last 2 regular season starts???? Only the 2022 Commanders beat him. Pretty amazing....and it was in Philly. We played that game close to the vest and dominated time of possession...maybe RR needs to sit EB down and watch that game over some beers and cheesesteaks.

 

Yes, a game we won with TH at the helm.

 

Sam needs to learn the system yes, but his style of play seems ill-fitted for this O-line. 

As everyone knows he's a "big play" guy with a big arm. His runs are valuable, but he ain't as agile as TH, who seemed to have eyes on his back and extend plays in uncanny ways.

 

I really REALLY hope he does not end up like Ramsey, who had similar physical attributes

but was hampered by terrible schemes from his coaches.

[Skinsinparadise]

Watching the Eagles game tonight makes me feel like they will sack Howell 30 times next Sunday 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watching the Eagles game tonight makes me feel like they will sack Howell 30 times next Sunday 

Gameplan next week has to be quick throws and running game to set up the deeper stuff. They can’t have intermediate routes be the primary reads. Get it out of his hands, get a rhythm and confidence and get the running game going early.

[MartinC]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watching the Eagles game tonight makes me feel like they will sack Howell 30 times next Sunday 

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if we played a lot better against the Eagles. I never liked the matchup with the Bills - I think the Eagles beat us but in a much closer game. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Gameplan next week has to be quick throws and running game to set up the deeper stuff. They can’t have intermediate routes be the primary reads. Get it out of his hands, get a rhythm and confidence and get the running game going early.

Only thing is the Eagles have been MUCH better against the run than the pass defensively so far this season. But the ball has to come out quicker that’s for sure. 
 

Id like to see us use more screens and get him outside the pocket more - make that Eagles D’line move side to side.