Next Day Thread: Sam Howell Just Got Sacked Again! (Buffalo Edition)

[Skins24]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Running it back and slowing it down, the clip is a bit disingenuous as the ball is already out.  Defenders are reading Sam and he’s likely sacked if he doesn’t let that go.

Indeed.

 

He never had time to even look back that way before a defender was in his face (completely obscuring that view.)

[Conn]

23 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I think this has been overlooked in yesterday's debacle. I am less angry over this loss than most because it isn't about this year. It's about next year, and 2-3 years down the road: a real future. This team is on Ron Rivera, but not entirely. I don't have the same vitriol the RonBots have, even though I think everyone is gone after this year. He can only get who he can get. We've read countless articles about how agents steer their players away from here because, from top to bottom, this was a ****hole destination. He's still on the hook, though, for Wylie. That guy sucks.

 

Having Snyder out means all things are now possible. We are now in position for top GM candidates. Top coaching candidates. Ben Johnson might actually want to coach here. We can now poach from the best Front Offices in the league and actually lure good, smart football people. We don't have to settle for mediocre and pretend they are the tippy top of the A-list. With all credit to Rivera for coming here and putting out the blazing inferno of Dan Snyder at his best/worst, we can now do better.

 

A bit of optimism in the muck and mire. Now, please, continue to light things on fire and smash ****.

You repeated almost exactly the same argument/thought process that “RonBots” post (except for 88 maybe lol), idk why you think coming from you it’s a more noble position lol. Is it because some people post more about it? The structure and makeup of the organization after this year is kind of THE big picture topic for the foreseeable future, I don’t see a reason to shy away from it. It’s not like we’re being distracted by dazzling football on the field. 
 

My main point is everything you just posted could have come from most of the people you deem “RonBots”

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, steve09ru said:

My only fault on the defense was giving up 4 3rd and longs on the first 2 drives which instead of forcing punts ended with 10 points.  Stop them and we don’t kill our drives then we’re leading going into the half

Josh Allen is very good. On two of those 3rd and longs he created the chunk play off script. Sometimes the other guy is just better. 

[Thinking Skins]

Ok, first things first is that we need a breather. I took a long break from football just to relax and think about other things because I didn't want to be mad or deal with mad fans. Anyway I thought I would come here and put some thoughts about the game here. 

 

1. Howell is growing / needs to grow. These are the mistakes he is going to make. There is a pic I posted on Twitter saying "this too shall pass. It may feel like a kidney stone, but it will pass." Several really good QBs have had bad games and stretches. Like Lawrence, Kirk, heck even Josh Allen. Few QBs come out the gates swinging and throwing dimes. I felt good that unlike Beck in the Buffalo game in 2011 when he was sacked 10 times and all he would do is throw it to the RB over and over again, Howell threw it immediately to Curtis Samuel 37 yards down the sideline on a beautiful throw that I loved. It showed that he wasn't afraid. Same with after the ints. He didn't get Kirk's fear like he did in that Giants game. 

 

2. I know Allen is now one of the premier QBs in the league and he has beaten us a few times now, but we got no pressure on him all day. I'm not going to say it was embarrassing, but I thought it was going to be more of a battle. We have four #1s and they ate us up like soup. 

 

3. I'm not going to go hard against EB too much because we were moving the ball, we got the ball, moved it 39 yards and threw a pic. Then 2 drives later moved it 73 yards and turned it over on downs. We could be talking about a 13-10 game and its a whole different story. This game got out of hand because of a lot of things but namely Howell making mistakes that stemrolled. 

 

So like I normally do, I'm going to analyze the drives. 

 

Drive 1: RPRPPPPP (2 Runs 12 yards, 6 Passes 35 yards (-9 sack yards) and an int)

Drive 2: RPP (1 Run 1 yard, 2 Passes 0 yards, -10 sack yards)

Drive 3: PSPPRP (1 Runs, -1 yards, 1 Scramble 18 yards, 4 Passes 14 yards) (turnover on downs) we're now down 10-0. 

Drive 4: PPP (3 Passes, for 9 yards and an interception)

Drive 5: R (1 Run for 10 yards)

Drive 6: RPPPRPPRRRP (5 Runs 46 yards, 5 Passes 17 yards)

Drive 7: RRPPPP (2 Runs 19 yards,3 Passes -1 yards (2 sacks for -7 yards))

Drive 8: P (1 Pass -2 yards fumble lost)

Drive 9: PPP (3 Passes 5 yards, interception)

Drive 10: PPP (3 Passes 4 yards (2 sacks -10 yards))

Drive 11: PPPPPPP (7 Passes, 51yards 2 sacks -9 yards)

 

[Riggo#44]

8 minutes ago, Conn said:

why you think coming from you it’s a more noble position lol.

 

You just answered your own question. Duh.

9 minutes ago, Conn said:

My main point is everything you just posted could have come from most of the people you deem “RonBots”

 

I don't think there are many people here who thing Rivera should be retained beyond this year, are there? I am not advocating for Rivera be fired at half time of games--which many do. So yeah, there's a difference.

[NoCalMike]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Rushing 4 and dropping 7 into coverage is a defense is a recipe for being run all over if the OC would just commit to it.  We ran the ball well against the Bills, hell, we've run the ball pretty well against every opponent so far, but EB keep deciding to go away from it.  I think we are seeing how much Mahommes being a generational talent, who does things that defy what your taught as a player, mattered in a pass first, pass often kind of offense.  Whether Howell can be that kind of QB by 2025 is up in the air, but for sure he is not that guy right now and shouldn't be constantly put in the position to have to be that kind of QB, especially behind this O-line.  

 

If I am EB, I am immediately going into Philly with some kind of run-play audible for Howell to use any time they see a defense try to copycat the Bills rush 4/drop 7 into coverage approach.  It will be an easy 5 yard run every single time if they just stick to it.  That is how the beat Philly last season with an O-line just as bad if not worse, and Heinicke at QB.  The deep shots will present themselves when a defense has to bring up DBs to help with the run.

 

I know EB has a certain kind of offense he wants to run, but until he (and that is even an IF at the moment) has had another offseason or two to mold more of the team into the personnel he needs, he has to work with who is currently on the roster and put them in positions for success.  Mahommes sat for a year as a rookie, but he was learning that EB offense that entire time where as Howell has had a lot less time with it before he started games.

[Chris 44]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

You just answered your own question. Duh.

 

I don't think there are many people here who thing Rivera should be retained beyond this year, are there? I am not advocating for Rivera be fired at half time of games--which many do. So yeah, there's a difference.

I fully believe that Harris is not going to fire Ron mid season unless Ron does something out of character bad (non football). I believe Harris will bring in his own people to evaluate and ultimately clear house at the end of the season. Ron has done a lot for this organization over the last several years and Harris is not going to fire him and start with a new staff mid season. Clean break at the end of the year allows Ron to save face. Im sure Harris already has a pretty good idea of how this will play out and has a general plan in mind. Doubt anything leaks till much later in the season if at all.

[Conn]

11 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

You just answered your own question. Duh.

 

I don't think there are many people here who thing Rivera should be retained beyond this year, are there? I am not advocating for Rivera be fired at half time of games--which many do. So yeah, there's a difference.

I don’t think what a minority of people emotionally post in a gameday thread really merits commenting on seriously—if that’s what you were referring to then I take back my comment. I think that’s completely normal here with any coach though, it’s a gameday thread lol. I assumed you were talking about people who post stuff about moving on from Ron across various threads throughout the week. Stuff very similar to what you just posted. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Conn

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

I don’t think what a minority of people emotionally post in a gameday thread is really merits commenting on seriously—if that’s what you were referring to then I take back my comment. I think that’s completely normal here with any coach though, it’s a gameday thread lol. 

Do you feel Rivera will be back? I am not quite sure what you're arguing here, honestly.

Like @Chris 44 posted above, it'll be handled with dignity and respect--another new feature around here--but ultimately, there will be an overhaul.

[Skinsinparadise]

At least by PFF metrics Fuller is having a good season.  St. Juste has been decent

 

 

 

 

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

At least by PFF metrics Fuller is having a good season.  St. Juste has been decent

 

 

 

 

Glad to see Fuller having a good year, changing a few peoples minds about him.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Chris 44

[Conn]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Do you feel Rivera will be back? I am not quite sure what you're arguing here, honestly.

Like @Chris 44 posted above, it'll be handled with dignity and respect--another new feature around here--but ultimately, there will be an overhaul.

Not at all. I agree with that 100%. I don’t think there are very many people here at all who think he’ll be fired in-season, either. 
 

My initial post here where I quoted you was 100% just addressing how you think there’s some difference in how you posted above and how the vitriolic “RonBots” post and given the posts read almost exactly the same to me (minus the emotional gameday posts that I said I don’t really care about) I was just curious what you think sets your opinion apart. The label thing as if there’s a faction of haters here who don’t have a rational point when they post about Rivera—that was my main point of contention. That your post about the situation is really similar to most of what I read here. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Conn

[Koolblue13]

Even the announcers were calling out the play calling, just like most people in the GDT. Run the ball, quick passes and screens in the second half would have been a nice adjustment.

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

At least by PFF metrics Fuller is having a good season.  St. Juste has been decent

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Yeah I was surprised we didn't call more screens. We've actually done a good job with them the first two weeks and its a staple of the Andy Reid offense. Not sure why we went away from them completely this week.

[RandyHolt]

I thought we would see creativity. Shovel Shuttle passes. Jets. Fake jets. Quick passing. Inside the 5 all we saw was Sam looking for Kelce TE3 in line with what reportedly happened at Friday's practice.

 

Its the NFL so any year we go 2-0 we need to expect to lose the next 6. And then our DC will shift gears and we'll win our next 4.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by RandyHolt

[method man]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

At least by PFF metrics Fuller is having a good season.  St. Juste has been decent

 

 

 

 

 

He's a guy who usually starts a season slow and then has a monster 2nd half of the season. In this case, I guess not having someone like a WJ3 or Landon Collins back there who drags down the entire secondary with him helps.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Not a shock that they were out-coached again vs a superior opponent and of course it clearly showed

 

Were they though? The players outcoached our own coaches instead. Howell throwing an INT in the redzone instead of TD or Gibbson fumbling in our endzone or Howell again throwing an INT into the belly of the defender and the list goes on. I thought EB did what he could but he should have ran the ball more when he saw Howell was getting hit too many times. That is on EB. Hopefully he can put together a more balanced offense against the Eagles instead. Doesn't have to be 50-50 but at least 60-40. 

 

Keep in mind our D held them to 16 points all the way through 3rd qt. The mistakes by our OL and Howell made us lose that game. The bright spot is that if you are going to have a stinkier and learn from it then this was the game to do so against an AFC opponent. 

 

Honorable mention goes to the cheeseman who was outstanding and didn't make a single mistake! lol

[NoVaSkins21]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Were they though? The players outcoached our own coaches instead. Howell throwing an INT in the redzone instead of TD or Gibbson fumbling in our endzone or Howell again throwing an INT into the belly of the defender and the list goes on. I thought EB did what he could but he should have ran the ball more when he saw Howell was getting hit too many times. That is on EB. Hopefully he can put together a more balanced offense against the Eagles instead. Doesn't have to be 50-50 but at least 60-40. 

 

Keep in mind our D held them to 16 points all the way through 3rd qt. The mistakes by our OL and Howell made us lose that game. The bright spot is that if you are going to have a stinkier and learn from it then this was the game to do so against an AFC opponent. 

 

Honorable mention goes to the cheeseman who was outstanding and didn't make a single mistake! lol

I was referencing preparation wise, this team was not ready for what the Bills presented them.  I do agree that the majority of this loss was on Howell, EB, and the offense.  Why EB didn't stick with the run more is mind boggling.  The defense did all they could despite the circumstances before things eventually broke down again due to turnovers and the offense

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Running it back and slowing it down, the clip is a bit disingenuous as the ball is already out.  Defenders are reading Sam and he’s likely sacked if he doesn’t let that go.

 

 

Nah.  At :03 - point oh three - of the clip, Bills CB Taron Johnson (#7) has left Dotson and committed to the middle of the field.  If Sam glances left we have a touchdown.

 

Terrel Barnard, the Bills LB who had a big game with an INT and 2 sacks, was quoted as saying they noticed on film that Sam doesn't go through his progressions so they were reading his eyes and jumping on throws. 

 

The clip above bears that out.

[zCommander]

Just now, NoVaSkins21 said:

I was referencing preparation wise, this team was not ready for what the Bills presented them.

 

The coaches were ready though. They had a game plan. The players were not ready to execute it at all though. I am not going to blame the coaches except they could have run the ball more to take the heat off of Howell. That is on the coaches which has nothing to do with preparation though. 

[kingdaddy]

I will never forget the great John Madden saying once in 1984(?) When we were down 21-0 in Dallas with the division title on the line: "the Redskins get the ball here to start the half and they need to just get some points, even if it's a field goal, to gain some confidence and stop the momentum". I said to myself "that's crazy, we need TD's, field goals aren't gonna help".

The Skins went down and kicked FG...got a pick 6 from Darrell Green and went on to win 30-28....I think Theismann was sacked 6-7 times that game but we won. 

RR needed to kick the FG down on the goal line when we got stuffed. We need to play like we did when we won the division a few years ago, run the ball, lean on the defense and our punter....Tress is the Way!

Wear teams down, control the clock, move Sam Round when we ask him to pass. Let him use his legs and help his field vision.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Season 5

 

 

 

 

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Dan T. said:

Sam's field of vision has to widen out.

 

 

 

He never turns his head to his left at all. Sets his feet to throw to his right instead. The defender were reacting to where he was looking and throwing and running towards to that point leaving Dotson wide open. Too bad Howell was locked into his 1st read.  

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

He never turns his head to his left at all. Sets his feet to throw to his right instead. The defender were reacting to where he was looking and throwing and running towards to that point leaving Dotson wide open. Too bad Howell was locked into his 1st read.  

He spread the ball all over in Denver too...I think yesterday he was shell-shocked somewhat because he had no time. He's going thru some baptism by fire for sure...this is where the coaching needs to show up in film sessions. 

I also think he could use a taller WR to lean on some in the redzone...we have mostly short guys.