New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I tend to think this idea gains more traction as the offseason progresses. Everyone's saying the pro-Fields things now and that's expected. And it's not that Fields has no upside either. But Fields is halfway through his rookie contract (not including his option year) and the Bears were literally the worst team in football. So you're not getting much in the way of results. And Fields still is a bad passer (but excellent scrambler). Are you really going to stick with a potential Daniel Jones to pass on say the next Kyler Murray? It's likely a franchise altering decision and QB is the one position where you always want the best player you can get. You'd gladly trade competent for above average (see going from Goff to Stafford). I think you really have to be sold on Fields (and let's not forget he was the 4th QB off the board in 2021) or really hate Young/Stroud to not make the swap.

 

The examples you used are pretty bad. 
 

Murray has been awful and Jones has been improving. Goff has been consistently fantastic in two places now and Stafford was more of a hindrance to the Rams run at times than a boon.

 

The Bears stripped their roster this season and knew they were going to be terrible. They are in fantastic position to rebuild that entire franchise in one solid year from a strategic point of view. Trading back and acquiring more pieces is the obvious goal. And they have a tremendous amount of cap space. Why remove the guy you developed and take some of those pieces (extra draft capital for trading back) to fill a position you already have filled?

 

The trade back strategy also gives them more ammunition in future drafts to move up and get a QB if necessary. But right now it’s an overreaction. The Cardinals drafting Murray over Rosen was not. 

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, Jericho said:

I tend to think this idea gains more traction as the offseason progresses. Everyone's saying the pro-Fields things now and that's expected.

 

Whether they want to trade Fields or not, the idea is gonna gain hella traction, b/c it increases the value of the Bears pick.

 

It they want to move on for one of the new guys, then yeah, you'll hear a lot and see a trade.

 

But...

 

Even if their FO has already gotten together and made the choice to 100% stick with Fields no matter what, it is in their best interest to drum up a situation where buyers have to pay the biggest possible premium for a trade back. One great way of doing that is by playing the "there is a window to draft one of these guys ourselves" game they are going on about. Now your not only paying them for the pick itself, but adding on the "insurance" of convincing them not to pick up a prospect themselves.

 

CHI will want their draft pick to be as valuable as possible, so its in their best interest to boost the stock of every high-end draftable QB. Its going to get louder the closer we get to draft time. I will not be surprised to see CHI reps at the various QB workouts releasing positive statements about top-end draft passers, even if they don't trade Fields.

[MartinC]

15 hours ago, KWilliamsAWinfield said:

 

 

Really? What if the new owner decides to move the team out of Washington to another state? Are you still going to think Synder is worse? 

 

What shows just how truly horrific Snyder has been as an owner is how extreme the ‘what if’ scenarios you have to produce to get someone worse have to be. Of course it’s theoretically possible to have a worse owner than Snyder. But in practice he’s been so bad, it’s almost impossible. 

[PlayAction]

21 hours ago, burgngold fan said:

If Washington’s main goal is quarterback! Then we are already lost.  This off season they need to fix the offensive  line.  No if ands or butts.   Without an revamped line no quarterback will be able to any better than what we had this past season.  

 

The 49'ers QB Purdy is a perfect example of how well a rookie QB can perform when he doesn't have to run for his life on every play.  

[Wyvern]

A few comments:

 

I very much agree on the need to upgrade the O-line, at least 3 of the spots, and mainly though the draft.  Let's give Matsko some really decent talent to groom, while he's still here.

 

IMHO, it's not good idea to try trading for Fields; he's still not that great of a passer and while a dangerous scrambler he'll eventually take enough hard hits to devalue that talent.  If Brissett is too expensive, perhaps a placeholder vet/mentor like Keenum would do (supplemented by a lower-round 2023 draft pick QB.). I don't think it's likely that Washington's would be able to coax a marquee FA QB to sign up, without seriously blowing up their salary cap management.  (Nor would that be wise!)

 

The main point I wanted to make for thread is that Rivera & Co really need to start hustling in order to quickly land their preferred OC, because other franchises will soon be looking for OCs as well (I suspect the Chargers are going to dump their OC, after their playoff meltdown.). Shurmer would be nice, but I still think Washington should try to poach the Giant's new OC, Mike Kafka, away from Daboll's staff.

[Warhead36]

I'd be thrilled to land Kafka but no way Daboll lets him leave for a division rival. 

[woodpecker]

10 hours ago, KWilliamsAWinfield said:

 

 

Really? What if the new owner decides to move the team out of Washington to another state? Are you still going to think Synder is worse? 

Yes. I will still think Snyder is worse. I’d rather have the team move then deal with another minute of Snyder as owner. I’ll take my chances that DC will get an expansion team before too long, it’s too big of a market not to. And the expansion team wouldn’t have a ****ty name like commanders!

[KDawg]

Love the way Dorsey calls plays. If a new owner happens at any point I’d love for this team to look at him as our next HC. Guy knows how to call plays and has a great feel for the game and timing. Schemes guys wide open. 

[method man]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Love the way Dorsey calls plays. If a new owner happens at any point I’d love for this team to look at him as our next HC. Guy knows how to call plays and has a great feel for the game and timing. Schemes guys wide open. 

Was highly respected as a leader as a player too at the U by both his fellow players and coaches. He is the complete package. He was in Carolina with Ron so he could keep the assistants he likes like Matsko

[zCommander]

@samy316  ummm Turner has left the building lol

[method man]

This should be a post it note on this thread -

Heinicke was in Minnesota in 2016 when Shurmur was interim OC and was in camp with them in 2017 when Shurmur was fulltime OC. He knows Shurmur’s system

[RWJ]

48 minutes ago, method man said:

This should be a post it note on this thread -

Heinicke was in Minnesota in 2016 when Shurmur was interim OC and was in camp with them in 2017 when Shurmur was fulltime OC. He knows Shurmur’s system

Good point, MM.  Thoughts right now are Shurmur or Zampese.  With the team sale being in question they won't journey to far from the system or they people that both RR and Co. know.  Wouldn't surprise me if one of them isn't named by mid-week at the latest. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by RWJ

[Warhead36]

10 hours ago, KDawg said:

Love the way Dorsey calls plays. If a new owner happens at any point I’d love for this team to look at him as our next HC. Guy knows how to call plays and has a great feel for the game and timing. Schemes guys wide open. 

Yeah I'm hopeful he doesn't get a HC job this offseason. Would love for him to be our HC next year. Either let him coach up Howell or we tank and  he can coach up Williams/Maye/whoever top QB prospect we get. 

[Jericho]

20 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

The examples you used are pretty bad. 
 

Murray has been awful and Jones has been improving. Goff has been consistently fantastic in two places now and Stafford was more of a hindrance to the Rams run at times than a boon.

 

The Bears stripped their roster this season and knew they were going to be terrible. They are in fantastic position to rebuild that entire franchise in one solid year from a strategic point of view. Trading back and acquiring more pieces is the obvious goal. And they have a tremendous amount of cap space. Why remove the guy you developed and take some of those pieces (extra draft capital for trading back) to fill a position you already have filled?

 

The trade back strategy also gives them more ammunition in future drafts to move up and get a QB if necessary. But right now it’s an overreaction. The Cardinals drafting Murray over Rosen was not. 

 

If I have to explain why Stafford is a better QB than Goff, then we might be here a while. But I used the example because it's literally one of the few times a team tossed out a mediocre QB to go all in on a better option. And it's recent enough in people's minds to relate to. I'll grant you that Stafford's viability as a top QB likely isn't going to last. He's already breaking down physically and he'll be 35 next year. The Rams might not get that much more out of him. But the Rams were already going all-in on a win now mentality pre-Stafford. So I at least get the move logically and Stafford was clearly an upgrade to Goff. And even though it took a magical run to pay off, it did. But if you want to quibble, a clearer answer would be the Chiefs casting aside Alex Smith for Patrick Mahomes. The Chiefs were one of the best teams in football with Smith, but still dumped him to put all their eggs in the Mahomes basket due to Smith's limitations.

 

 

As for the Murray/Daniel Jones names, I used the comparison mainly because what the Cardinals went through in 2019 is very similar to what the Bears are going trhough in 2023. The Cards were not bad in 2018. They went 8-8 with a revolving door of poor QB options. So they actually traded UP to #10 in the draft to draft Josh Rosen. A year later, they were 3-13 and owners of the top pick in the draft. Rosen wasn't good, but he had literally played one year and while one can argue the quality of the supporting case, the same basic team went .500 a year prior. The Bears went 8-8 pre Fields. They traded UP to #11 to draft fields. in the two years since, Chicago has won 9 games total, winning 6 in 2021 and 3 in 2022. Frankly, that is not good. And no the Bears weren't tanking and really didn't "strip their roster". Sure, they trade Roquan Smith during the year over a contract dispute and traded a late career (and overpriced) Robert Quinn. but the Bears already sucked by then. The main point being the Bears haven't been good in two years of Fields. It doesn't mean that Fields will never be anything, but the vast major of franchise QBs were showing something special by the end of year 2. Fields is still a poor passer and currently the QB of the worst team in football. To you go all in on that, even if the upside is Daniel Jones? I used Jones as an example because he isn't terrible. But he's not that good either. He's competent enough to be an NFL starter, but bad enough the Giants declined his fifth-year option (something even Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold got picked up). With a good coach who limits what Jones is asked to do passing wise, he again looks competent. But are you really trying to compare him to Kyler Murray. Jones couldn't even make the Pro Bowl in 2022 when half the NFC was injured and somehow Geno Smith got voted in. Murray? Oh, he won the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2019 and is a two time Pro Bowler (in 2020 and 2021). A guy has one down/injured year after 3 really good ones and a different bad QB suddenly gets slightly less bad and people lose all ability to compare the two?

 

Anyhow, my point remains. The Bears are in a position to nab an elite QB talent. They have the top pick in what man consider to be a strong QB draft. Very few teams are so lucky. Many years (like 2022) simply have poor QB draft classes and other years teams aren't bad enough to get the top pick. So when a team is in a rare position to capitalize on the pick, do you trade out merely for having a young QB with two years of bad play under his belt? If you're putting all you eggs in Justin Fields' basket, one must either love Fields or hate Young/Stroud. Its a plausible opinion to have, but it's also a very risky one and gather more picks won't make up for missing on the next Mahomes/Allen/Burrow type.

 

[kingdaddy]

15 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I'm hopeful he doesn't get a HC job this offseason. Would love for him to be our HC next year. Either let him coach up Howell or we tank and  he can coach up Williams/Maye/whoever top QB prospect we get. 

I'm intrigued by anyone who's helped develop Josh Allen...If Dorsey has something to do with how good Allen has become then I'd be on board with him. 

[Conn]

 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

 

This is why I want Reich....in 2018 his Eagles couldn't be stopped and that was with Nick Foles at QB. Reich is a master at getting TE's and RB's open which means the WR's have less attention on them. Watching the NYG yesterday almost every play they called was safe and guys were open, it reminded me of Reich's Eagles. I agree with the above comment 100%.

Who we get as OC may be our biggest and most important offseason addition all things considered and especially with a young, raw QB. 

[skinsfan66]

10 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

This is why I want Reich....in 2018 his Eagles couldn't be stopped and that was with Nick Foles at QB. Reich is a master at getting TE's and RB's open which means the WR's have less attention on them. Watching the NYG yesterday almost every play they called was safe and guys were open, it reminded me of Reich's Eagles. I agree with the above comment 100%.

Who we get as OC may be our biggest and most important offseason addition all things considered and especially with a young, raw QB. 

Reich, attended college at Md. (QB), as a player and could be a fit with Ron being in league for years as a player and a proven coach success. What's not to like? Also, could step in for Ron if he got axed and hold down the fort. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

My ass. Having a good QB is the biggest competitive advantage in the NFL.

[Warhead36]

6 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I'm intrigued by anyone who's helped develop Josh Allen...If Dorsey has something to do with how good Allen has become then I'd be on board with him. 

He was the QB Coach the last couple of years. Became OC after Daboll departed. I think they all had a hand in Allen's development along with McDermott.

5 hours ago, Conn said:

 

Its a good point. Look at the best teams. Yeah they have the best QBs but they tend to have really good playcallers and offensive scheme designers. 

 

Having Rivera/Turner the last couple of years put us at a BIG TIME disadvantage.

[NoCalMike]

It is an interesting topic of discussion regarding QB's if you feel that the game changing elite QB's top out at about 3-5 in the NFL at any given time, but what about the next two tiers, 6-10 and 10-15......do you guys think that a lot of the QB's in that group tend to move up and down the list significantly depending on their OC/coaches and personnel around them?    

[FrFan]

 

 

[Conn]

If we hire Leftwich of all people there will be no reason to tune in this coming year. May as well just hit fast forward to the next offseason. He’s that bad. Completely clueless every single week especially in regards to archaic run-run-pass obsessiveness. 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

14 minutes ago, Conn said:

If we hire Leftwich of all people there will be no reason to tune in this coming year. May as well just hit fast forward to the next offseason. He’s that bad. Completely clueless every single week especially in regards to archaic run-run-pass obsessiveness. 

....But the local tie.

[Warhead36]

Leftwich would be a DOWNGRADE from Turner