Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

Listened to a reporter on 106.7 who covers the Raiders.  Got to give props by the way to Finlay, smart dude to bring everyday a new reporter who covers some of these teams who might be trading a QB or losing one to FA.  So for me at least its been really good radio.  

 

In short, Gruden likes Carr but is open to improving on the spot.  

 

Mariota needed a reboot when he came to the Raiders, physically and mentally.  And he thinks that reboot happened over the course of the season.    He doesn't think it would take much to get him, 4th round pick, maybe a third if there is a bidding war.  The Raiders have been getting interest in a trade for him. 

 

He predicated Carr ends up staying.  He thinks Mariota gets moved, he speculated maybe WFT or the Bears. 

 

 

The Washington Football Team announced Wednesday that it re-signed Heinicke to a two-year deal, which is worth up to $8.75 million, a source confirmed. Heinicke would have been a restricted free agent, but Washington had made it clear it wanted to keep him based on how he finished the season.

Washington still has Alex Smith under contract for two more years, though his future with the team remains uncertain. Kyle Allen is an exclusive-rights free agent whom the coaches like. The team also has Steven Montez, an undrafted free agent last season.

Heinicke's showing put him in the conversation to at least be a primary backup and provide depth, if nothing else.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Spaceman Spiff]

55 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Are you complaining that the QB who knows the offense and makes only 850k next season isn't pro-bowl caliber?

 

There are lots of QB's who aren't that good.  Allen already knows the offense...and he doesn't affect the cap, at all.  Gives us flexibility.  We could bring in other QB's who also aren't that good, but they wouldn't know the offense, and they'd cost more.  Keeping Allen around doesn't change the QB moves at all, because he costs the same as any random Day 3 rookie we'd bring in.

 

There's nothing bad about keeping Allen.  He knows the offense and he practices well.  If we went into 2021 with the only expectation at QB that Kyle Allen would start...then we've got a problem.  But we aren't.  Keeping Kyle Allen also doesn't preclude us from trading up in the draft if one of the QB's we like falls a little further than expected.

 

I don't care that he knows the offense.  And no, I'm not complaining that he isn't a pro-bowl caliber quarterback.  

 

Allen knows the offense, Allen knows the offense, Allen knows the offense.   I heard you the first time.  Heinicke knows it, too.  Neither of these guys are starting level QBs, but on game day there's only room for 1 backup, (assuming we're only going to dress two quarterbacks).  I never argued against keeping Allen, I just don't think he's that good to begin with, even for a backup.  

 

YEAH BUT HE KNOWS THE OFFENSE.

[Andre The Giant]

JLC pointing Russell to the Raiders.

 

 

[The Consigliere]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

only one I'd consider is Settle. No way I am giving a top D lineman for Mariota. 

 

 

n fact, what if the trade compensation wasn't a draft pick at all, but rather a player? Could Washington send one of its talented defensive linemen to the Raiders in return for their backup QB?

The Raiders finished the 2020 season with just 21 total sacks, fourth-worst in the league. Washington finished with 47 sacks, sixth-best in the league. Maybe this could turn into a win-win situation for both franchises. 

Why?

 

Mariota had one real nice season, and a shortened injured season where the raw #'s look great, but the actual performance of the team was horrific. I was buying Mariota in '16-'18, but at this point, it's nuts to think he's worth much of anything, especially elite DL talent. If they want a DL for Mariota, they can give us a first as a part of the deal. 

[CjSuAvE22]

Why are there people concerned snd upset about signing TH4 to a 2 year deal didnt give up draft picks to do this its not like we are tieing up tons of cap space...this is actually fascinating to me havent we been through enough fiascos of overpaying aging players? Kid showed he can play for 5 quarters thats 5 quarters more than a lotta qbs weve shuffled in since 2018 he deserves a shot

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Why?

 

Mariota had one real nice season, and a shortened injured season where the raw #'s look great, but the actual performance of the team was horrific. I was buying Mariota in '16-'18, but at this point, it's nuts to think he's worth much of anything, especially elite DL talent. If they want a DL for Mariota, they can give us a first as a part of the deal. 

Click bate “qb” gets tons of clicks...these reporters dont actually know a lot

Edited February 10, 2021 by CjSuAvE22

[The Consigliere]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Not if they want QB or RB help, WR is also a weaker draft. 

[JSSkinz]

40 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm at the point where I don't even like to hear idiots even talk about such a thing.

Seriously, when I log on here and see his name mentioned I get immediate panic attacks.

 

I just have to remind myself Ron is not that stupid.

 

 

[wit33]

I’m a strong pass on Wilson. I speculate he represents the new age entitled elite QB and for his style of play being potentially on the backend of his prime. 
 

Men playing psychologist thinks he wouldn’t be a great fit with Rivera from a personality perspective. Wilson has a little Kirk Cousins in him, not the most relatable dude, from my distant point of view. 

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Why are there people concerned snd upset about signing TH4 to a 2 year deal

 

We all knew TH would be back, but the knee jerk reaction says that a 2 yr 8.75 M deal for Taylor is a massive overpay. He would have been a RFA and we would have had to opportunity to match the offer any other team gave him. I'd be hard pressed to see any team in the NFL give him that much money.

 

In actuality, its starting to look like those are the numbers Taylor can receive if he hits all of his incentives, which are highly tied to playing time. If he gets there, he probably earned it... or every other QB was devastated by injury/covid and he managed to stay healthy.

I'd like to see the base numbers of the deal, but this is starting to look like it has the bones to be a very good contract. As long as the G money is low, I'm pretty happy with it.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Why?

 

Mariota had one real nice season, and a shortened injured season where the raw #'s look great, but the actual performance of the team was horrific. I was buying Mariota in '16-'18, but at this point, it's nuts to think he's worth much of anything, especially elite DL talent. If they want a DL for Mariota, they can give us a first as a part of the deal. 

 

I don't think anyone is buying big into any of the flier type QBs including Mariota.  The debate as to the flier type QBs is who is the tallest midget of the group.  Some have different favorites on that count.  They key for me is if you going for a rehab type project, I'd want that project cheap.  

Edited February 10, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skin'emAlive]

Wilson ain’t going nowhere. He’s just leveraging against Schneider. And I’ve always liked him, but he’s had an awful past few years building that team. DK being his only real hit. 

[Thinking Skins]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think anyone is buying big into any of the flier type QBs including Mariota.  The debate as to the flier type QBs is who is the tallest midget of the group.  Some have different favorites on that count.  They key for me is if you going for a rehab type project, I'd want that project cheap.  

I think the problem is that the Stafford compensation changed things. Teams (like us) were willing to go swimming, but the water is so deep just for a flyer that its not worth it. We spent a 5th last year on Allen. What could we get for that this year? A little more? If everything is going to cost a first or a second or more then you've gotta be sure that he's your guy. 

[wit33]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think anyone is buying big into any of the flier type QBs including Mariota.  The debate as to the flier type QBs is who is the tallest midget of the group.  Some have different favorites on that count.  They key for me is if you going for a rehab type project, I'd want that project cheap.  

Great mobility and pedigree is a tremendous plus in these situations as well.

 

Mariotta is precisely the kind of guy I wanted to target previously and now when in QB purgatory. 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Great mobility and pedigree is a tremendous plus in these situations as well.

 

 

If mobility is defined by running ability as a large part of the equation, I agree.  That's why although I won't die on a hill for any of these types, I'd take Mariota over the typical flier QB being discussed here.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Malapropismic Depository]

This may be only Viking fan opinions, but then again, so is this whole thread and forum, LOL.... but it seems unanimous that the Vikes' fans loved him and even in Minnesota, they couldn't figure out why they got rid of him. Other than that whole kicking the door thing, lol.

Just fans. Just one thread.

But here is every comment on one thread, from a youtube video about Heinicke. What I'm trying to say, is I'm not cherry picking, and leaving out anything negative. But every single comment was positive on this thread.

 

He was a fan favorite till he messed his foot up kicking a door.

Wished he didn’t kick that damn glass door 😭

I’m gonna be so pissed when he breaks out.

I desperately wanted the Vikings to start him

He beat out Case Keenum too.

Vikings 49ers game heinicke game winning 2 point conversion diving for the pylon

Omg I was so excited for him to finally play, I was genuinely excited watching him play, then that stupid door. F man

I was so pissed watching him play. If he hadn't put his foot through a door I feel like we don't make the Bradford trade when Teddy got hurt

best preseason game ever

^Now that's a rare line.

Legendary way to get hurt

 

 

There you have it.

Even when he gets hurt - he gets praised for doing it in a legendary way.

That's not even including his pylon dive vs Tampa to shake up his shoulder.

I wouldn't be surprised if they make a movie about him

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Think he was looking at the right of first refusal tender and just over 2mil, which suggests he’s probably lifting what, 2.5mil to 3mil max in cash this year? Smart that the incentives push back into next years cap too.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think the problem is that the Stafford compensation changed things. Teams (like us) were willing to go swimming, but the water is so deep just for a flyer that its not worth it. We spent a 5th last year on Allen. What could we get for that this year? A little more? If everything is going to cost a first or a second or more then you've gotta be sure that he's your guy. 

 

I agree if you are paying a first rounder in the mix you need to be sold he's the guy.   Not a lot of intriguing fish in the sea at the moment.  

 

I don't think Carr will be traded, ditto Watson, R. Wilson, A. Rodgers, etc.

 

I think the interesting options end up either trading up in the draft, going after a flier type QB, building draft capital for the next year QB chase, or staying pat. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Darth Tater]

35 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

We all knew TH would be back, but the knee jerk reaction says that a 2 yr 8.75 M deal for Taylor is a massive overpay. He would have been a RFA and we would have had to opportunity to match the offer any other team gave him. I'd be hard pressed to see any team in the NFL give him that much money.

 

In actuality, its starting to look like those are the numbers Taylor can receive if he hits all of his incentives, which are highly tied to playing time. If he gets there, he probably earned it... or every other QB was devastated by injury/covid and he managed to stay healthy.

I'd like to see the base numbers of the deal, but this is starting to look like it has the bones to be a very good contract. As long as the G money is low, I'm pretty happy with it.

 

 

That is also closer to what you pay for the primary backup QB these days. Other considerations include a possible premium for taking a contract where the team can cut you with little damage cap-wise so they can replace you.

[Malapropismic Depository]

I know the talk is about him being backup. But I'm curious if my friend Ron has said whether Tay will be allowed to at least compete for #1 in Camp ?

I know some people will shudder at that idea, but it's definitely a realistic possibility that he becomes the best QB on our 2021 roster.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[TheShredder]

On 2/6/2021 at 8:09 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I like him.  But I am going to hold my horses on Heinicke until I see something from the powers that be that convince me they feel this dude is the right guy to be QB1.  

 

As for having a gripe with Rivera on this potentially.   Look we wouldn't even know the dude if it weren't for him.  Rivera brought Heinicke to the party.  So i am going to let him dictate my enthusiasm level. 

Heinicke is clearly stating it was Turner who brought him in.  Good to see this kid get a chance.  He deserves it. 

In his interview, when asked about if there was something he'd work on he says yes, I'm going to put on some lbs. to address injuries.  He only needs about 5-8 lbs. and he'll be set.

Smart looking 2-yr deal. w/linked bonuses to starts.  Win-Win. 

3 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

But I'm curious if my friend Ron has said whether Tay will be allowed to at least compete for #1 in Camp ?

Heinicke answered  that in his interview stating that was his understanding. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

In unrelated news, immediately after Heinicke's contract extension, Redskin Park maintenance replaced all glass doors in the building, and replaced them with padded doors.

This is a shot of Heinicke, when he arrived at the Park, to sign his contract :

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[FootballZombie]

32 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Even when he gets hurt - he gets praised for doing it in a legendary way.

 

First thing I ask a guy in a cast is "how did it happen" and before he tells me I cut him off with "If it does not start with I went for the backflip on my motorcycle, but..." Your doing it wrong.

 

 

Using the back of a parked car carrier trailer as a ramp is also acceptable

 

[Inigo Montoya]

7 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I know the talk is about him being backup. But I'm curious if my friend Ron has said whether Tay will be allowed to at least compete for #1 in Camp ?

I know some people will shudder at that idea, but it's definitely a realistic possibility that he becomes the best QB on our 2021 roster.

 

I think a rookie or Mariota/Fitz kind of vet is going to compete in camp with TH. I'm hoping TH does win that competition, his playoff game is one of the best QB performances we've seen in B&G in decades... and look at the odds stacked against him!!! Tampa's D was amazing this playoff run. I hope he does win, I hope he is durable and we should have a plan if he isnt. 

[Bacon]

Frankly, I think the average NFL fan is stuck in the mid-2000s as far as their knowledge of contracts is concerned. They don't seem to grasp what quarterbacks actually get paid these days. Too much Madden franchise mode? Every hypothetical deal I see on forums is always $5-10 million below any degree of realism. Doesn't surprise me that a guy on Twitter pissed himself in fear at the idea of paying a potential backup (up to) $4-ish million a season.