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Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

Renegade7

By Renegade7
in The Stadium

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Rookie QB or Veteran QB for next season(2021)???  

227 members have voted

  1. 1. Rookie QB or Veteran QB for next season (2021)???

    • Draft QB first round
      52
    • Rookie QB from outside first round
      23
    • Sign FA Veteran
      40
    • Trade for Veteran
      38
    • Stand Pat with one of the QBs we have on Roster, draft QB in 2022 Draft iinstead
      38
    • I don't know
      10
    • I don't care
      9
    • I'm tired of 5 year development plans burned to the ground in less then 2
      18

  2. 2. Rookie QB or Veteran QB for next season (2021)??? - (Feb 2020)

    • Draft QB first round
      5
    • Rookie QB from outside first round
      1
    • Sign FA Veteran
      4
    • Trade for Veteran
      0
    • Stand Pat with one of the QBs we have on Roster, draft QB in 2022 Draft iinstead
      6
    • I don't know
      0
    • I don't care
      2
    • I'm tired of 5 year development plans burned to the ground in less then 2
      1

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wit33

wit33

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I forgot who said it by one who observed Mariota's career mentioned that his mobility might not have been tapped as much as it should.

 

This dude is fast.   He was a hair under 90 yards rushing in his one game with the Raiders.  4.5 fast.  That's faster than Russell Wilson.  Faster than Jalen Hurts who seems to be all the rage with some because of his mobility last year.

 

 

 

 

 

Mobility as for Kirk?  I recall the arguments well and nope that wasn't the predominant argument used against him.  In defense of the anti-Kirkers, most had their own unique stances, including yours which I recall being unique in that you defended how the FO handled it at least from the context of compensation.  You didn't have a ton of company on that including from the anti-Kirkers. 

 

My predominant angst on the subject was Bruce's mishandling of the contract and if you are going to dump Kirk, then at least trade him.  My angst was about Bruce.  I even said to some of the anti-Kirkers once Bruce is gone, i won't give a rats behind about Kirk because my goal is to get Bruce out the door.  Kirk was gone.  But Bruce remained.  Bruce blowing his ability to trade Trent for greater assets when he could have -- brought home how he bungled things for Kirk at least for some people.   Ditto Joey Corry's story about a similar instance involving Bruce in Tampa. 

 

I recall you were convinced they couldn't get any better than what they did for Kirk.  And if i recall you said so even after Mike Jones said Kyle Shanny told him directly they offered a first for Kirk.  Add Jay to that pile now, he also said they could have gotten more than they did for Kirk and should have traded him and cited it as his biggest regret.  Even Jon Gruden goofed on this team in a press conference about how little they got for Kirk.  That's my main debate from what i call about Kirk involving your position that went beyond the player to the bottom line of the incompetent dudes running the team back then.

 

But now that Bruce is gone I genuinely can't give a rats behind about Kirk one way or another.  So I don't feel like debating him here today.   We got plenty of meaningful real time Qb subjects to discuss.  😀. 

 

 

 

giphy.gif

 

 


Most definitely believe they could’ve gotten compensation, but still don’t believe a first rounder was offered. Would’ve been great if an interviewer chose to follow-up and get specifics. I was okay with a season of Kirk Cousins and a comp pick. If a 1st was offered, then 100% I would’ve wanted him traded. 
 

I was early on the whole QB bubble of average to above, in regards to what those guys were being paid, so it became more of a philosophical debate as much as anything for me. Thought and still believe Kirk started the QB process to being like the NBA superstars (I dislike the NBA and do t really have a rooting interest, even though that’s my sport background), but it would’ve happened with or without him. I own it being philosophical, so wasn’t just all logic for me. 
 

There was a strong contingent that said he was top 10 and some claiming he was elite all based off his numbers. Not you. Many have moved off this point a bit. Fun times :) 
 

I was more neutral on Bruce and was very wrong to even have that stance. Selfishly I just wanted to care in December and got that most seasons, but always hated the culture.
 

Mike Jones said that? Must’ve somehow missed that. Maybe as I write I remember something, but wasn’t certain it was confirmed to be a first, but that a pick was offered. 
 

As to your Dragon, I’ve soured on it, because of the potential compensation needed and his contract status. Lean towards a 3rd round value, which by all reports isn’t close, so maybe we aren’t that far off lol. Though, I still think he has a chance. We’ll base who’s right by how many teams are reported to be interested if he becomes available. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


Stafford

Goff

Carr

Jimmy G

Darnold

 

 

If rhey value durability I'd wonder about Jimmy G.  As for Darnold, we haven't heard any leak at least not yet that they like him.  Wonder about Mariota, granted he has some durability concerns too as does Darnold?  It's out that teams have inquired about Mariota and the Raiders reporter thought the two teams in on him would be the WFT and the Bears.  Granted its all speculation.   

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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RWJ

RWJ

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If rthey value durability I'd wonder about Jimmy G.  As for Darnold, we haven't heard any leak at least not yet that they like him.  Wonder about Mariota?  It's out that teams have inquired about him and the Raiders reporter thought the two teams in on him would be the WFT and the Bears.  Granted its all speculation.   

I like Mariota and don't think it would take a 1st to pry him away from the Raiders.

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RWJ

RWJ

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Me either!!!

I hope it's a 4th

May take more than that, I think.  I see a 3rd and a 7th of which we have two of.  I think that would be more than fair for Mariota.  Then we have our 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 for the draft.  

 

Tannehill had much better stats with Miami so a 4th plus may get it done, DW.  Tenn. gave up a 4th and 7th while Miami recieved a 6th.  

Edited by RWJ
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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I don’t know man. I don’t think you can dumb down the QB position and still be successful. We have a very large sample size and we know that making good decisions with the football is the way to win the NFL and if you make good decisions with the football, you get to marry Giselle.

I think I picked the wrong career.

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TheShredder

TheShredder

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, jservs7 said:

Why do I have a feeling we're going to have the same QBs next season with Smith taking a pay cut? 

No reason for him to take a pay cut.  He will make the same money if they cut him, so the only thing WFT can do is save money by restructure of the same contract pushing out some cap or release him and Alex will still make over 16M and WFT will take two years of cap hits to the same amount.  No logic in any pay cut with less than 2M difference.  Good chance Alex comes back now, but in a QB competition that he should win with Heinicke behind him and someone else.  Alex can come back a bit stronger with some added mobility.  I won't ever count him out again.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

 

 

14 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Mike Jones said that? Must’ve somehow missed that. Maybe as I write I remember something, but wasn’t certain it was confirmed to be a first, but that a pick was offered. 
 

As to your Dragon, I’ve soured on it, because of the potential compensation needed and his contract status. Lean towards a 3rd round value, which by all reports isn’t close, so maybe we aren’t that far off lol. Though, I still think he has a chance. We’ll base who’s right by how many teams are reported to be interested if he becomes available. 

 

Yep Mike Jones said Kyle told him it was a first rounder back then during that period.   Jay acted like it was a gross error as to how they blew the compensation they could have had -- so whatever it was it looked to be clearly signficantly more than what they got for him. 

 

But whatever, it is what it is.  The dummy who helped ran the team back then is gone.  Sadly we still got the bigger dummy, our owner left though.    I'd only care about re-litigating it if Bruce was still here but fortunately he's gone.

 

As for any of my views changing from that period to now, the main one would be then I liked that 7-9, 8-7-1, 9-7 era from the perspective that I felt at least we had a shot in some of these games and were relevant.  Now i don't care about that.  If anything i am negative on being stuck in sort of 500 purgatory.  I don't want to just be a threat to make the playoffs and sneak in to the playoffs here and there.  I want to be like GB-Seattle-NO, Pitts, etc.  A team that can be a perennial playoff team and a real threat to win a SB.

 

As for Darnold, everyone obviously has a chance.😀  lol don't get me wrong there is no way for me to know if a QB can turn their career around or not.  I am not big on this dude's play but my main issue by a mile is the compensation.  If I am trading a first or 2nd and change for a dude, I am betting big on the reclamation working.  For me to go for a reclamation project, I want it cheapish considering isn't that part of the point?  If I am buying a fixer up, I shouldn't be paying a premium price for it as if the seller is already projecting that it turns into a mansion.  If i am going for a Dogs of the Dow approach to a stock, i want it at a bargain versus paying Tesla (hyperbole on my end to make a point) prices in advance for a projected turnaround as if its a slam dunk. 

 

I am not going to judge as to who is right based on how many teams are interested.   If that's your touchstone then you will win.  Of course teams will be interested.  It's QB.  Teams feel desperate. They will roll the dice.  It's just how things are.  I wasn't high on Rosen in 2019 when he was on the trade market and I said in detail why just like i am doing now on Darnold.  If I was going to be judged on teams interested, I was wrong. I expected though teams would be interested.    If it was based on how good a player Rosen was and did he revive his career -- I was right.  For Darnold lets see how he actually plays at his next juncture.   

 

As for your theory about the QB/price/value.  Judging by this off season, it looks like the desperation still exists by teams to fill the spot where they are willing to overpay. But the off season is still young so will see.

 

I've read your explanations on the QB spot before.  I agree with some of it.  I think my main issue with it is if you go too far with a mindset like this - you can lose out.  To me its all about context.  And sometimes you got to overpay to strike it big.   Let's say for example, Winston at 15 million whereas you can get Colt McCoy at 3 million.     You can say Winston isn't 5 times better than Colt.  So you are getting the better deal with Colt.  Yep, sure.  But your team might stink with Colt even though you get him at the better value.  Qbs are the most important position on the field.  So while you can get both a mediocre QB and a prime receiver lets say for the same price you can get just a good QB -- the good QB probably beats the mediocre one even with the benefit of upgrading the roster with that extra receiver. 

 

My point is i think you have no choice but to factor a curve on the QB spot.   Also, you can manipulate the cap, stagger things for example, so if your roster is set for the kill now, it likely behooves you to be more aggressive, etc. 

 

I am not saying you are on the other sides of these points but that's my take of I can't always be overly consumed by value.  it's a situation by situation deal. 

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kingdaddy

kingdaddy

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, jservs7 said:

Why do I have a feeling we're going to have the same QBs next season with Smith taking a pay cut? 

I thought the same thing....we need Alex's wife to step in and say enough is enough. It would also be nice if one of the networks offered him a tv deal or something? We need to give this man some options outside of playing for us. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

Breer just now, he's usually plugged in

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/02/10/nfl-mailbag-remembering-marty-schottenheimer-2021-quarterbacks

From JV (@jessvegs): With Stafford out of the equation, what does Washington do at QB now? Carr? Trade up for Fields? Darnold?

JV, since you asked the question, Washington did re-sign Taylor Heinicke, but I think the Football Team will still continue aggressively looking at just about everything. They offered a first-rounder and third-rounder for Stafford, a haul close to what Carolina was willing to give up for him. And they’ve inquired on Carr—who, to this point, has not been made available by the Raiders. I’m also relatively certain that, picking 19th, Washington won’t get Zach Wilson, Justin Fields or Trey Lance without trading up.

But if you add all those things up, the desire to go get a quarterback added to the way the winds are blowing on the draft class, it’s pretty easy to see where Washington would be a trade-up candidate here. Especially when you consider that the 2022 draft class, as of right now, doesn’t have even one slam-dunk first-round quarterback. In that way, this year is like 2018, and we saw three trades up within or into the top 10 to get QB that year.

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mhd24

mhd24

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Breer just now, he's usually plugged in

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/02/10/nfl-mailbag-remembering-marty-schottenheimer-2021-quarterbacks

From JV (@jessvegs): With Stafford out of the equation, what does Washington do at QB now? Carr? Trade up for Fields? Darnold?

JV, since you asked the question, Washington did re-sign Taylor Heinicke, but I think the Football Team will still continue aggressively looking at just about everything. They offered a first-rounder and third-rounder for Stafford, a haul close to what Carolina was willing to give up for him. And they’ve inquired on Carr—who, to this point, has not been made available by the Raiders. I’m also relatively certain that, picking 19th, Washington won’t get Zach Wilson, Justin Fields or Trey Lance without trading up.

But if you add all those things up, the desire to go get a quarterback added to the way the winds are blowing on the draft class, it’s pretty easy to see where Washington would be a trade-up candidate here. Especially when you consider that the 2022 draft class, as of right now, doesn’t have even one slam-dunk first-round quarterback. In that way, this year is like 2018, and we saw three trades up within or into the top 10 to get QB that year.

 

 

I'd be ok with trading up for Fields/Lance (I think its certain Wilson goes 2nd to the Jets).  I just think the trade up cost will be too significant.  Atlanta (IMO) is kind of stuck taking a QB at 4  (unless they love Sewell) or trading down.  WR/TE (Pitts, Smith, Chase) makes no sense whatsoever for them.  They don't want to trade down too far and miss an impact player.  Carolina and Denver make perfect trade partners for them to move down possibly and still get a relatively elite prospect.  19 is too far down.

 

  

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