Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Thats why I now see a move for Darnold as very likely, day 2 pick. I think that actual becomes a real competition, whether we like Darnold or not.

I think Darnold comes in third and is cut. Wasting a draft pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

The question then has to become: Is it worth getting a guy who is conceivably better but not demonstratively better?

 

 

I think this is clearly the most likely scenario.    To me yes if its cheap.  No if it isn't cheap.  Do I think Mariota could be better than Heinicke/Allen?  Yes.  Would I bank my mortgage on it?  No.  But if you aren't betting big its little risk.

 

My beef with Sheehan on Darnold is he's willing to risk big on Darnold.  He wants to both give up their first rounder and then bring the Brinks Truck to sign him up to a contract because he doesn't want to lose him.    I am not a Darnold guy but i can get it more if its a cheapish roll of the dice move.   But if you give up a first and give him a big contract and Darnold fails -- this team would be screwed even worse than it was with the Haskins pick. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

I said yesterday, I think Rivera’s use of the word ‘competition’, or in fact the way Heinicke has portrayed that in interview, is slightly out of context. I think that he’s been pretty much guaranteed a roster place, and he’ll get a competitive amount of camp reps, but clearly a move for a higher tier QB means the competition is likely for that back-up, game day ‘being active slot’, as opposed to inactive as the #3. It’s a fair competition for the #2 role.
 

The statement doesn’t solely have to mean competition for the #1 job.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I said yesterday, I think Rivera’s use of the word ‘competition’, or in fact the way Heinicke has portrayed that in interview, is slightly out of context. I think that he’s been pretty much guaranteed a roster place, and he’ll get a competitive amount of camp reps, but clearly a move for a higher tier QB means the competition is likely for that back-up, game day ‘being active slot’, as opposed to inactive as the #3. It’s a fair competition for the #2 role.
 

The statement doesn’t solely have to mean competition for the #1 job.

I disagree. I think the plan is to make it a real competition. Barring a complete upgrade becoming available.

Edited February 11, 2021 by KDawg

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think Darnold comes in third and is cut. Wasting a draft pick.

Maybe so, no way of knowing that just yet.

[KDawg]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Maybe so, no way of knowing that just yet.

No but it’s a real possibility. That’s why you don’t give up a day 2 pick.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think this is clearly the most likely scenario.    To me yes if its cheap.  No if it isn't cheap.  Do I think Mariota could be better than Heinicke/Allen?  Yes.  Would I bank my mortgage on it?  No.  But if you aren't betting big its little risk.

 

My beef with Sheehan on Darnold is he's willing to risk big on Darnold.  He wants to both give up their first rounder and then bring the Brinks Truck to sign him up to a contract because he doesn't want to lose him.    I am not a Darnold guy but i can get it more if its a cheapish roll of the dice move.   But if you give up a first and give him a big contract and Darnold fails -- this team would be screwed even worse than it was with the Haskins pick. 

See my previous post.  Doesn't it make more sense to give up 2 1st for Carr and extend him.  You know what you are getting.  

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I disagree. I think the plan is to make it a real competition. Barring a complete upgrade becoming available.

How is that disagreeing?

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I disagree. I think the plan is to make it a real competition. Barring a complete upgrade becoming available.

I agree....and I think RR brings in a vet to take Alex's place who is part of the competition. I hope it's Fitzmagic but I'm betting it's Cam just cause RR is so familiar with him and what he offers in ALL facets, weaknesses be damned. I see the competition as Allen, Heiny, Vet FA, rookie or Montez. We still don't know what the coaches feel about Montez?

[KDawg]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

How is that disagreeing?

It seemed you thought Heinicke is only there for the backup comp. perhaps I read that wrong? I think he’s there to compete for QB1 and QB2.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

No but it’s a real possibility. That’s why you don’t give up a day 2 pick.

I don’t think it’s a real possibility he comes in third and gets cut, not on a 920k cap friendly deal.

[Thinking Skins]

12 hours ago, sjinhan said:

 

 

 

 

 

From the realistic options that are remaining... I would want us to shy away from Mac Jones...  Just soo much talent at WRs and RBs that I think it is a bit of a risk to take him.

 

I think if we can Mariotta without giving up too much would be idea situation as I think Henicke and Mariotta have similar skill sets.  I didn't do a deep dive or anything but just from what I have seen on TV thus far.  

 

Going into the new season with Henicke, Mariotta, and Kyle Allen as 3 QBs... not the best situation but I think at least we can get similar QB performance that Alex Smith provide while healthy this year.

 

Who knows many one of the QBs will surprise all us by outperforming our expectations!

 

I'm all in on Heinicke and Allen  and one of Mariotta or Tribusky and as QBs depending on their costs. The thing about both those guys is that they may both be looking for guaranteed starting spots or a costly option in terms of free agency and draft picks. 

 

When we look at the draft, I like the upside of a Mond the best. I can't say this enough, but I think those reps he has count for a lot. He needs to be better at completion percentage but I think he has everything else except maybe an elite arm but we've seen how (un)important that really is. 

 

I think I like Trask over Jones simply because I can see more range in terms of where he can end up. Like there are a lot more successful QBs with similar stats to him in college than Mac Jones. There are a lot more busts or just people who didnt make it, but I'd take him on a late round pick if he's available. 

 

I'm kinda the same on Newman. He has a lot of ability and the fact that he can scramble makes me think he's got a chance to be a Josh Allen type. But he could also be a more accurate Akili Smith or Tee Martin. 

 

The list of QBs with less than 600 attempts in college who do well in the pros isn't too long: 

 - Alex Smith (587)

 - Mitch Tribusky (577)

 - Kyler Murray (519)

 - Mark Sanchez (487)

 - Michael Vick (343)

 - Cam Newton (232)

 

Those are three gnerational talents athletically (Vick, Newton and Murray) who all went first overall, and three guys who struggled early and wound up having problems. So that makes me give serious hesitation to both Jones and Newman. Its kinda like what Gruden was saying about Haskins last year - he's good but he's going to need a lot of time to develop. And what Ron was saying about Haskins, he needs reps, like 10000 reps. Maybe I can give Lance the bye since he's got the skillset more comparable to Vick, Newton and Murray but I wouldn't be in love with Jones or Newman. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

See my previous post.  Doesn't it make more sense to give up 2 1st for Carr and extend him.  You know what you are getting.  

 

I am cool with being aggressive including even giving up two #1's if its for a top 10 QB I love.  Carr to me strikes me on that 12-16 range.  i like him.  I don't love him.  So for me I wouldn't give two #1's for Carr.  I am not against being that aggressive for certain targets but for me at least Carr wouldn't be that guy.   I liked Stafford even more than Carr but i didn't want to give up two #1's for him either. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I don’t think it’s a real possibility he comes in third and gets cut, not on a 920k cap friendly deal.

I think we have different perspectives on Darnold.

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It seemed you thought Heinicke is only there for the backup comp. perhaps I read that wrong? I think he’s there to compete for QB1 and QB2.

no, I said the degree of competition would be dependent on whether we made a move for a higher tier QB as well, being the same as your ‘complete upgrade’ statement I would say.

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I think we have different perspectives on Darnold.

I don’t, I think he’s ****.
 

But if our esteemed front office with 150 years of league experience behind them brings him in then I think the real possibility is that he sticks around.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am cool with being aggressive including even giving up two #1's if its for a top 10 QB I love.  Carr to me strikes me on that 12-16 range.  i like him.  I don't love him.  So for me I wouldn't give two #1's for Carr.  I am not against being that aggressive for certain targets but for me at least Carr wouldn't be that guy.   I liked Stafford even more than Carr but i didn't want to give up two #1's for him either. 

I understand and respect your point of view.  I think he is.  His stats have been very solid and I think he could get us where we need to go with our D in tact for the next 3-4 years and possibly depending on how we draft.  I wonder if he might not be our #1 target right now and we are back and forth with LV on a deal for him.  JDR knows him well not meaning that wins him over with RR, Mayhew and Hurney but there is that connection.  

[86 Snyder]

17 minutes ago, RWJ said:

If this years 1st and next years 1st get a deal done with Carr, that's the option we should take, I think.  We'd still have our 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 7, 7, and 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 for next year.  Makes more sense than trading away a 1st and more for a rookie when Carr can be your starter on day 1 for the next several years.  We can add FA assets and draft them too with our remaining picks for this year and next.  
 

 

Ughhhh no.  Dude, no.  Id like to win more than 9 games sometime ever please.

[Conn]

lol. If you trade 19 and next years 1st for Carr you’re crazy imo—that ends up a top-10 pick if we do that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I understand and respect your point of view.  I think he is.  His stats have been very solid and I think he could get us where we need to go with our D in tact for the next 3-4 years and possibly depending on how we draft.  I wonder if he might not be our #1 target right now and we are back and forth with LV on a deal for him.  JDR knows him well not meaning that wins him over with RR, Mayhew and Hurney but there is that connection.  

 

OK yeah if you think Carr is a a legit top 10 QB then he would be worth that price.  Personally I like him but I don't see him as top 10 and i am not as high on him where I'd give up that much.  For me its one first rounder.

 

Keim doesn't think the Raiders trade Carr unless they get a deal that can't refuse.  

 

But again I'll stay consistent, no matter what they do, I'll eventually go for the ride and trust it.  The only thing that i'd have a really hard time digesting is Darnold for a high price.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

Just say no to trading away a 2022 first rounder. Way too much uncertainty in the future value of that pick.

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK yeah if you think Carr is a a legit top 10 QB then he would be worth that price.  Personally I like him but I don't see him as top 10 and i am not as high on him where I'd give up that much.  For me its one first rounder.

 

Keim doesn't think the Raiders trade Carr unless they get a deal that can't refuse.  

 

But again I'll stay consistent, no matter what they do, I'll eventually go for the ride and trust it.  The only thing that i'd have a really hard time digesting is Darnold for a high price.

I know that I was on the Darnold train but NO WAY is Darnold anywhere near the talent of Carr.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Brugler's new mock

 

 

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Just say no to trading away a 2022 first rounder. Way too much uncertainty in the future value of that pick.

If the WFT moves up for a rook QB more than likely they have to spend their 2022 1st and more to do so for one of the Fantastic 4.  Carr is good and I would go with him over a rookie.  We all have our thoughts. 

[PartyPosse]

If we don’t upgrade at the QB position and Taylor isn’t the QB we saw in the TB game then next year would be a waste of a prime year from that defense. 

[Number 44]

42 minutes ago, RWJ said:

If this years 1st and next years 1st get a deal done with Carr,

Why on earth would anyone pay more for Carr than Rams overpaid for Stafford?  Makes no sense at all.  Stafford only cost a 2022 first (roughly equivalent to a 2021 second) and a 2021 third.  The 2023 first was really the cost of taking on the Goff contract.  Multiple firsts for Carr is ridiculous.  Even one first is a massive overpay.