Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[mhd24]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

OK from a Keim podcast and one where he interviewed Ron.  My takeaways:

 

A.  He knows they like Carr.

B.  He doesn't know if they like Darnold or not but some NFL: observers assume they would in part because of his age

C.  They'd rather not trade a player in the mix of a deal

D.  If I heard this part right, got distracted when he talked about this:  They understand they might not be able to retain all the D lineman over the long haul so they might someday trade one for a pick.  I'll listen again to that part to make sure.

E.  They like Heinicke as backup.  Concern:  durability, how does he play when he does have something to lose

G.  If they can't pull off a QB this off season, next off season is on the table including trading down in this draft to build capital for the next draft

 

Ron interview

 

A.  He wants to explore every option at QB.  Cool with being aggressive but doesn't want to give up the store where he's on the wrong side of a lopsided trade

B.  He's big on leadership in ths mix of attributes for a QB

C.  He likes QBs who can find his way to win even when he's not playing hot.

D.  Some QBs can go up and down based on the momentum of a game.  If things go bad, the QB goes bad with it.  He likes Qbs that are even keeled and don't swing up and down with the momentum of the game. 

 

On that last 2 points, I've heard Ron elaborate on in multiple interviews.  Easier for me to make a baseball analogy to his point.  Ron seems to favor starting pitchers who can find a way to win even if they don't have their best stuff that day.  And he doesn't like pitchers who unravel when things start going awry. 

 

 

Feel free to pull that data, it won't go well for Darnold. 

 

You mean this....

 

 

 

Trading down might be really prudent this year.  I doubt we'll just take a QB (I think the big 5 are gone by 19 anyways).  LT is the only position where staying put makes sense.  There is a ton of depth at WR this year that makes passing on a guy like Toney palatable.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

He's not that good?

 

Are you complaining that the QB who knows the offense and makes only 850k next season isn't pro-bowl caliber?

 

There are lots of QB's who aren't that good.  Allen already knows the offense...and he doesn't affect the cap, at all.  Gives us flexibility.  We could bring in other QB's who also aren't that good, but they wouldn't know the offense, and they'd cost more.  Keeping Allen around doesn't change the QB moves at all, because he costs the same as any random Day 3 rookie we'd bring in.

 

There's nothing bad about keeping Allen.  He knows the offense and he practices well.  If we went into 2021 with the only expectation at QB that Kyle Allen would start...then we've got a problem.  But we aren't.  Keeping Kyle Allen also doesn't preclude us from trading up in the draft if one of the QB's we like falls a little further than expected.

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Does this Heinicke re-signing change anything about the rest of the approach to the QB position (this offseason)?   Does it make it less likely that some kind of blockbuster trade or signing will happen? 

 

Don't think it changes anything, at least judging by the dudes who covered the team who also expected Heinicke to be back.

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

 

Trading down might be really prudent this year.  I doubt we'll just take a QB (I think the big 5 are gone by 19 anyways).  LT is the only position where staying put makes sense.  There is a ton of depth at WR this year that makes passing on a guy like Toney palatable.  

 

What I found interesting about it was it wasn't about trading down to add picks this year but to add for next year.  Keim basically suggested that if they can't pull it off this off season don't be surprised if they use this off season to position themsleves to get one next year including adding 2022 draft capital. 

 

One underrated thing Scot did before he left was trade down in the 2016 draft to add 3 picks for the 2017 draft. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[86 Snyder]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Whats happening now is not sustainable for the NFL. Not the owners, not the teams, not the players. Whats happening now won't last. Its a bubble. Offenses are going to start dumbing down the QB position. The position is depleted. Outside of Watson and Mahommes you've got 32+ yo guys acting like kings. A bubble, a phase, whatever. 

 

The phase of QB being the most influential position in football?  All the rule changes and system adjustments favor the passing game.  It will always be the most imortant spot amd compensated accordingly.

[mhd24]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't think it changes anything, at least judging by the dudes who covered the team who also expected Heinicke to be back.

 

 

 

 

 

What I found interesting about it was it wasn't about trading down to add picks this year but to add for next year.  Keim basically suggested that if they can't pull it off this off season don't be surprised if they use this off season to position themsleves to get one next year including adding 2022 draft capital. 

 

One underrated thing Scot did before he left was trade down in the 2016 draft to add 3 picks for the 2017 draft. 

 

 

From what I remember Bruce was always the head honcho on trades.  I think he (ugh) should credit for those moves.

 

I can see us trading to pick up a 6th this year to replenish our lost 6th from the Sharpe trade (where we traded our 6th for Sharpe and the 7th from the Raiders)

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

I think this is a good chance for us to buy some offensive pieces and put as much talent as we can on O. And if none of the cheapish guys we have at QB take it and run with it then swing for the feces for a QB next year. This is always what I advocate for though, so maybe im just biased. 

So, we are swinging for **** Qbs next year? I say no, to the feces option.

[Skinsinparadise]

Finlay is saying that Heinicke has to hit on a lot of incentives to get that full salary.  Is the contract out?  If so i can't find it. 

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

From what I remember Bruce was always the head honcho on trades.  I think he (ugh) should credit for those moves.

 

I can see us trading to pick up a 6th this year to replenish our lost 6th from the Sharpe trade (where we traded our 6th for Sharpe and the 7th from the Raiders)

 

From what was said then, it was Scot pushing the trade downs, he even talked about it in an interview, he had high enough people on the board who had similar grades where he liked the idea of moving down to stock up for later.  

Edited February 10, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgundy Yoda]

My guess is it's going to be Heinicke, Allen, and a rookie in this QB competition. I'll even go further and say it will be Heinicke vs Allen vs Jones or Lance. That's a very fair QB competition. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KillBill26]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

One underrated thing Scot did before he left was trade down in the 2016 draft to add 3 picks for the 2017 draft. 

Agreed, i wouldnt mind trading back to stock up on 2022 picks.  But I also remember being pissed when Scot traded a 4th for a pick the following year when andrew billings was on the board!  And that's why I'm not a GM.

[Ruzious]

16 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

 

Trading down might be really prudent this year.  I doubt we'll just take a QB (I think the big 5 are gone by 19 anyways).  LT is the only position where staying put makes sense.  There is a ton of depth at WR this year that makes passing on a guy like Toney palatable.  

 

So does the likelihood that they sign a quality veteran WR in free agency.  

[redskinss]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Don't think it changes anything, at least judging by the dudes who covered the team who also expected Heinicke to be back.

All the reports were that he was expected to be back but I didn't see anything about a 2 year deal for 8.75 million. 

 

All I saw were questions as to which tag we were gonna use.

I personally think this is a little bit more of a statement as to what the team thinks of him.

 

The tag gives him the right to negotiate with other teams, this means he's ours for two years, the latter being much more of a commitment. 

 

I'm not suggesting the team is sold on heinicke, all the fears are very justified but I believe they were concerned other teams might be willing to offer him a little more than we just did and they didn't want that to happen.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

My guess is it's going to be Heinicke, Allen, and a rookie in this QB competition. I'll even go further and say it will be Heinicke vs Allen vs Jones or Lance. That's a very fair QB competition. 

 

That is kind of my gut as well. Maybe try and trade up if Lance doesn't go by #4 ... (Detroit) ... give up a 1st next year. But you have to understand Lance isn't a legitimate option in 2021 given how raw he is.

 

Jones if he falls to #19 also makes sense, but again it probably depends on how the staff grades those two guys out. A QB for the sake of a QB isn't the right approach if the QB can't fit your system. Rivera and co. might prefer a Jamie Newman or Kellen Mond in R3 to Jones at #19.

 

But yes, I agree, unless Darrisaw, Slater, Lance, Waddle or Pitts fall to #19, I am probably leaning toward trading out of that pick. Grab an extra 2 if you can, a future 1st would be awesome if someone wants to come up for a QB. An early 2nd + 2022 1st would be amazing, especially if we go into the draft having signed a WR and LB and have Scherff/Darby in the fold as re-signs. Gives you some real flexibility in the draft and adds future assets to address QB in 2022.

[Skinsinparadise]

only one I'd consider is Settle. No way I am giving a top D lineman for Mariota. 

 

 

n fact, what if the trade compensation wasn't a draft pick at all, but rather a player? Could Washington send one of its talented defensive linemen to the Raiders in return for their backup QB?

The Raiders finished the 2020 season with just 21 total sacks, fourth-worst in the league. Washington finished with 47 sacks, sixth-best in the league. Maybe this could turn into a win-win situation for both franchises. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

That is kind of my gut as well. Maybe try and trade up if Lance doesn't go by #4 ... (Detroit) ... give up a 1st next year. But you have to understand Lance isn't a legitimate option in 2021 given how raw he is.

 

Jones if he falls to #19 also makes sense, but again it probably depends on how the staff grades those two guys out. A QB for the sake of a QB isn't the right approach if the QB can't fit your system. Rivera and co. might prefer a Jamie Newman or Kellen Mond in R3 to Jones at #19.

 

But yes, I agree, unless Darrisaw, Slater, Lance, Waddle or Pitts fall to #19, I am probably leaning toward trading out of that pick. Grab an extra 2 if you can, a future 1st would be awesome if someone wants to come up for a QB. An early 2nd + 2022 1st would be amazing, especially if we go into the draft having signed a WR and LB and have Scherff/Darby in the fold as re-signs. Gives you some real flexibility in the draft and adds future assets to address QB in 2022.

I'm thinking a few of the teams that need a QB are really searching for veterans. Carolina for whatever reason really is going all in on a veteran QB. I don't think they'll draft a rookie QB. Same with the 49ers, I think they'll also go the veteran QB route. I think we will have to jump the Pats for a chance at Trey Lance. I think Jones makes it to 19, but I don't think he'll be anywhere close to the best player available at 19. Mond is an interesting choice, definitely a guy who we could stash for a couple of years and sit behind a veteran QB. 

[kingdaddy]

15 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

My guess is it's going to be Heinicke, Allen, and a rookie in this QB competition. I'll even go further and say it will be Heinicke vs Allen vs Jones or Lance. That's a very fair QB competition. 

We need to hear what the coaches think about Montez...

[Ashburn Dave]

16 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

A lot of people fail to realize that in that snippet of Darnold incompletions he was working on the "closed eyes technique" which when perfected doesn't give DBs a pre throw indication of where the ball will be thrown. Its been used successfully for some years now in the major European football leagues.

 

 

Sergio approves of this method.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, redskinss said:

All the reports were that he was expected to be back but I didn't see anything about a 2 year deal for 8.75 million. 

 

 

They didn't make predictions from what I recall on the money on a contract but so what?  They aren't making predictions on Kyle Allen's contract and how it will go down either financially but also believe he's slam dunk coming back.  

 

The closest thing I've seen as a prediction of the money side of the equation of this is on Alex they are saying if he's back its not status quo as for the cap/money.

 

No one predicted the money for Chase Roullier either

 

\

Edited February 10, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just drove to the grocery store at lunch and got a small dose of sports radio for the first time in a while.  Maaaan, in just that little bit of time - 2 out of 4 or 5 callers talking about sending pick 19 to the Jets for Darnold.  I'm at the point where I don't even like to hear idiots even talk about such a thing.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Just drove to the grocery store at lunch and got a small dose of sports radio for the first time in a while.  Maaaan, in just that little bit of time - 2 out of 4 or 5 callers talking about sending pick 19 to the Jets for Darnold.  I'm at the point where I don't even like to hear idiots even talk about such a thing.

 

I like Sheehan.  But I don't always agree with him.  As for talk show hosts, Sheehan seems to be leading the charge for a first for Darnold.   And Finlay is leading the charge against trading for Darnold.

 

It's amazing to me how the pro Darnold calls also really have little to no substance behind their sell.  It's basically the Jets stink and Darnold was a high draft pick. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Inigo Montoya]

I think the plan of TH and KA + let the draft come to you at QB is falling in place. That means being ready for a trade up a few spots if say a guy like Jones is your dude. Or waiting on Mond later, I really don’t like anything about Trask. Lets be aggressive at Receiver and MLB 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Inigo Montoya

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's amazing to me how the pro Darnold calls also really have little to no substance behind their sell.  It's basically the Jets stink and Darnold was a high draft pick.

That was both calls, one guy even said "and all I have to give up is pick 19? I make that move all day and let them compete in camp".  Shoot me.

[88Comrade2000]

I don't think we will find our long term QB this year. Too many teams needing a QB this year. We Will go with Taylor and Kyle and some stopgap lower tier QB. They will compete for the starting job. I think we try to get multiple Round 1 picks for 22; to give us flexibility next year.

[CommanderInTheRye]

If we end up with an honest to goodness training camp competition between Mariotta, Heinicke and Allen while retaining our first two picks in this year’s draft I would be elated.

[Skinsinparadise]