Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I'm not taking crazy pills either. I'm just looking at the unbiased facts. And not assuming what the NFL believes, based on my opinion or any other fan's opinion - especially fans who "hardly watch football".

Foles is far, far from the only example. Especially if you look at the great Super Bowl teams, who didn't necessarily win it all.

Less than a year ago, you had Garrapolo in the big game. The year before, Goff made it. Year before that was Foles. Year before that, there's Matt Ryan. Year before that was Cam Newton - the guy who couldn't even create a winning record with a team that was literally built to win Super Bowls, for multiple decades. A few years before that, you had a Super Bowl with Flacco and Kaepernick. Seriously, I could go on and on, as long as necessary.

 

Let's not act like Nick Foles is some kind of rare exception, like a Yellow-haired, 2-headed Okapi.

If you take an honest look, there are a lot of them

This is a great argument if your goal is to reach one super bowl, lose and then immediately head back into the basement. 

 

 

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I'm not taking crazy pills either. I'm just looking at the unbiased facts. And not assuming what the NFL believes, based on my opinion or any other fan's opinion - especially fans who "hardly watch football".

Foles is far, far from the only example. Especially if you look at the great Super Bowl teams, who didn't necessarily win it all.

Less than a year ago, you had Garrapolo in the big game. The year before, Goff made it. Year before that was Foles. Year before that, there's Matt Ryan. Year before that was Cam Newton - the guy who couldn't even create a winning record with a team that was literally built to win Super Bowls, for multiple decades. A few years before that, you had a Super Bowl with Flacco and Kaepernick. Seriously, I could go on and on, as long as necessary.

 

Let's not act like Nick Foles is some kind of rare exception, like a Yellow-haired, 2-headed Okapi.

If you take an honest look, there are a lot of them

 

This is entire point, though. Those guys and those teams got there ONCE, usually through a perfect storm of factors. They were not threats to do so in any given year. The teams that ARE consistently threats to go deep into the playoffs all have top QBs. I have no desire for us to be a team that has to have some crazy vortex of factors to help us potentially fall forwards into the SB one year and then disappear afterwards. I want this team to be a perennial contender. To do that you need a top QB.

 

You really think anyone was scared of another Foles, Flacco, or Kaepernick helmed team going all the way again? Of course not. 

[Renegade7]

Can have cake and eat it, too. Point of thread was not getting the qb of the future as a rookie in this draft.  Not that we don't need one at some point.

 

Its not an ultimatum, stop with the false choices.  Nothing wrong with going on a run with a vet to buy time finding the right rookie.

[Anselmheifer]

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is entire point, though. Those guys and those teams got there ONCE, usually through a perfect storm of factors. They were not threats to do so in any given year. The teams that ARE consistently threats to go deep into the playoffs all have top QBs. I have no desire for us to be a team that has to have some crazy vortex of factors to help us potentially fall forwards into the SB one year and then disappear afterwards. I want this team to be a perennial contender. To do that you need a top QB.

 

You really think anyone was scared of another Foles, Flacco, or Kaepernick helmed team going all the way again? Of course not. 

I agree 100%. I love Chase Young. He’s my favorite player since Sean Taylor. If we could trade Chase, a 1st and a 2nd for a 25 year old top 5 QB, it’s a no brainer. You’re going to get so much more impact out of the QB. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Its interesting because I don't take this year as a repeat of any other year, but also I don't take it as the armageddon of QBs where we have these unprecidented things happen.

 

Things are rarely unprecedented.  But yeah I am not exactly going with a wild dark horse point of view that this off season has a unique large number of teams supposedly shopping for QBs.  That narrative is actually in many of these stories about QBs, so i am surprised that you are surprised about it.  It's one of the themes especially of national reporters covering this off season

 

 

3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

What's also "historic" about this year is the number of QBs who are likely to change teams (Watson/Stafford/Brissett/Winston/Mariota/Darnold/Carr/Jimmy G/Darnold/Tribusky/Dak). 

 

I doubt Dak goes anywhere.  Carr is just a rumor.  That rumor about Carr existed last year too but nothing happened. Stafford and Watson want out.  But the others you mention here involve teams not satisfied with the status quo and want to upgrade.  The Bears, the Jets, the Colts wanted to move on from who they have in house counts as a team shopping for a QB.  Ditto the Raiders if they are looking to move on from Carr.  Stafford and Watson are unique cases.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

30 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Can have cake and eat it, too. Point of thread was not getting the qb of the future as a rookie in this draft.  Not that we don't need one at some point.

 

Its not an ultimatum, stop with the false choices.  Nothing wrong with going on a run with a vet to buy time finding the right rookie.

 

Isn't one of the choices I Don't Know.

So you could say i don't know but I would like Watson even though he isn't available but I don't know I do like to dream though...lol

 

30 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Point of thread was not getting the qb of the future as a rookie in this draft.  

 

You might want to change the title of thread then.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by zskins

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Kinda is though. 
 

See: every team that made the conference championship games last week

The other important note about the four conference QBs:

 

None were acquired via trade from another team. Three were drafted by their current teams. One was acquired via FA and surrounded with absolutely incredible talent.

Edited January 29, 2021 by KDawg

[zCommander]

On 10/18/2020 at 4:34 PM, Renegade7 said:

Chase Young isn't even doing that yet.

 

Well looks like like you were off on Chase Young. 

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Did they really need to ask 

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Well looks like like you were off on Chase Young. 

 

What that he wouldnt or he wasn't?  At the time he wasn't, i never said he wouldn't.  

14 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

You might want to change the title of thread then.

 

 

Nope, did you read OP? : )

[Malapropismic Depository]

54 minutes ago, redskinss said:

This is a great argument if your goal is to reach one super bowl, lose and then immediately head back into the basement. 

 

 

 

That's still infinitely better than not going to the Super Bowl at all. And plenty of people would be euphoric over that. Especially after decades of futility.

I don't think it's a realistic goal, to expect a team to go from perennial losers, to becoming a dynasty, and done so overnight.

[TheGoodBits]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The other important note about the four conference QBs:

 

None were acquired via trade from another team. Three were drafted by their current teams. One was acquired via FA and surrounded with absolutely incredible talent.

That’s more a function of the fact that team’s don’t typically let pro bowl caliber quarterbacks leave. Cause it’s *really* hard to find them. 

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

What that he wouldnt or he wasn't?  At the time he wasn't, i never said he wouldn't.  

 

Same can be said of a rookie QB drafted.

One shouldn't discount because of our O line (as your reservation to getting a rookie QB). The O line can be fixed in free agency and in the draft. Even back in October we were never set on the QB position. It is now even more important to nail this position down and a higher priority over other positions. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

That’s more a function of the fact that team’s don’t typically let pro bowl caliber quarterbacks leave. Cause it’s *really* hard to find them. 

I would say it’s also a function that these teams had the assets to surround those players with incredible talent and built around them rather than needing to surrender crazy assets to obtain the QB.

 

Mahomes was traded for via draft picks... That’s absolutely true. But the Chiefs were really good before he got there. Perfect time for a draft gamble.

[Burgold]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

That's a bit of a hard line stance to take isn't it? If you're only willing to give up a 2nd or less for a QB your pool will be limited to mediocre guys mostly. We've seen where that takes us.

It is, but on the other hand, I don't want us trading a king's ransom for an old, heavy footed, oft injured QB who really never elevated his team all that much. Stafford's overrated in my book. If he comes here, I expect him to lift us to 8-8 and then fall apart.

 

[ILikeBilly]

53 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I agree 100%. I love Chase Young. He’s my favorite player since Sean Taylor. If we could trade Chase, a 1st and a 2nd for a 25 year old top 5 QB, it’s a no brainer. You’re going to get so much more impact out of the QB. 

I mostly agree with what you are saying.  However, many on this board are not convinced Watson is a top 5 QB.  Do our coaches and front office think he is top 5?  We don't know.

[CapsSkins]

Chase Young, Montez Sweat, Jon Allen, Daron Payne, Kam Curl, Terry McLaurin & Antonio Gibson are not getting traded point blank period. Anyone else could go if need be.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Watson is elite. Don’t overthink it.

 

Going off team stats is like saying we have an elite secondary because of where our defense finished.

 

 

We disagree on the the level of direct impact the QB has on a team scoring over a season and that of CB on defense. 

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I would say it’s also a function that these teams had the assets to surround those players with incredible talent and built around them rather than needing to surrender crazy assets to obtain the QB.

 

Mahomes was traded for via draft picks... That’s absolutely true. But the Chiefs were really good before he got there. Perfect time for a draft gamble.

When do you feel the team will be ready to surrender crazy assets? 

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

We disagree on the the level of direct impact the QB has on a team scoring over a season and that of CB on defense. 

When do you feel the team will be ready to surrender crazy assets? 

When we don’t have so many holes. Honestly next offseason is a pretty realistic time frame. I realize the “player” (  ) is available now and not next year and that changes things for some. But for me I think to get him now is a serious risk of wasting the “player” 

[TheShredder]

12 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Chase Young, Montez Sweat, Jon Allen, Daron Payne, Kam Curl, Terry McLaurin & Antonio Gibson are not getting traded point blank period. Anyone else could go if need be.

You would think that in every other case except this one. 

Watson isn't choosing WFT, so all those youngsters arn't going anywhere.

[RWJ]

Alex Smith played in 3 Pro Bowls vs. Matt Stafford 1 Pro Bowl.  

 

We signed Alex Smith with a 3rd rounder and Kendall Fuller

[Darth Tater]

43 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The other important note about the four conference QBs:

 

None were acquired via trade from another team. Three were drafted by their current teams. One was acquired via FA and surrounded with absolutely incredible talent.

I think that is in part because if you find your QB, you are not likely to trade him or let him walk. Brees was not the Brees know when he left SD, but a big question mark.  Brady looked close to done in 2019. 

 

Look at Tampa's 2019 performance, their defense was decent and, outside of turnover issue, the offense was elite.  How many points did they give up that were not directly or indirectly due to turnovers? It is pretty clear that they really aren't that much better except the turnover thing. Now, a big part of that was Brady and it won't surprise me much to see the Bucs scraping the bottom soon.

[VaK9Trainer]

I am really starting to lean towards the idea of just drafting a QB, trading up if we need to as long as it doesn't get crazy. I don't think we're getting either Watson or Stafford and we aren't accomplishing anything by getting some stopgap second rate QB who's only available because he has never been good enough to be a true NFL franchise QB. It's time to stop rummaging around the scrap heap and time to start developing our own Franchise QB. In the meantime, keep building this team with good talent. 

 

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Dark Acre]

I think that the Stafford/Watson scenarios offer us a good lesson which WFT will be in the pole position next year to take advantage of (though this one has come a year too early).  Both Stafford and Watson are *done* with incompetent team ownership/management/coaching to the extent that they are in self-preservation mode.  They're not prima donnas (or as someone on this very board wrote some years ago, "pre-madonnas"), they *want* to play football.  They're not about $.  They just want to be where they want to kiss the dirt when they arrive.  It's too early this year (or for an FA of similar caliber), but with another strong draft and smart FA group, QBs who are desperate to be given a fair shake at winning will be waiving their no-trade clauses to get here.  Frankly, I think Chase Young should vet our QBs.  If he starts bouncin' around with "he operatin" and "I like him" and stuff like that....  Then the really cool thing is, our backup plays exactly the same except for the long game.  That's how you get to the Big Stage over and over and over.  They aren't going to call it the Brady Trophy for nothing.