Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Lovi said:

However, none of them did anything after leaving Houston either 

Well, Hyde basically was putting up the same average in Seattle and Lamar basically died but point taken.

[FootballZombie]

This talk of Goff being involved in a trade for Stafford is very interesting.

 

The Rams are in bad shape cap wise. The combination of dead cap from Goff and the newly acquired cap from Stafford would hurt bad. They are already 30M over and at best case scenario, w/ a cap friendly deal for Stafford they would be sitting at 40M over after the trade. They would have to dice their team up quite a bit to get back under the salary cap.

 

The Lions themselves are capped out. They would be putting themselves in a bit of a crunch taking on 25 M hit from Goff and 19 M in dead cap from Stafford. It would be workable but not desirable.

 

All this and the Rams don’t even have a 1^st round pick this year to give…. Leads me to a couple possible actualities…

 

1.)    The Lions greatly value Goff and think he has the ability to be more than a bridge

2.)    Goff would agree to take a massive pay cut to facilitate this

3.)    The Lions are not getting offers that include 1^st rounders, otherwise they would not even consider a deal like this one.

 

Personally, I think the market for Stafford has been a little overblown. While allot of people may have inquired, most of the serious bids are from people showing up to shop at the 99¢ store. Getting him may not even cost what a lot of us have been speculating.

[86 Snyder]

No one is trading for Goff unless its an Osweiler type deal.

 

Stafford to Rams makes zero sense given their cap situation.

[CjSuAvE22]

2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

 

Personally, I think the market for Stafford has been a little overblown. While allot of people may have inquired, most of the serious bids are from people showing up to shop at the 99¢ store. Getting him may not even cost what a lot of us have been speculating.

 

Correct hes overrated most teams know they will be stuck in mediocrity with him but all the GMs on this board see it otherwise, im praying we arent in the runnning unless its a 2nd round pick or less

[TheShredder]

2 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I want us to get Stafford but I do not believe we will get him.  A report today says the Rams and Lions are talking about trading quarterbacks.

I am afraid that Mayhew knowing Stafford may not help us land him.   If Stafford did not like Mayhew's drafts with the Lions then I am sure

he will tell his agent that he prefers to avoid Washington.  While the Lions control where he will go, they will probably listen to which teams Stafford

would like to avoid.  At least ten teams in the off season will be searching for a different quarterback than what they had during 2020 season.

True and hypothetical as it is, if Alex Smith in fact does want to keep playing, ship him and a couple of better picks on a better deal.  Just saying.

[CjSuAvE22]

6 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

True and hypothetical as it is, if Alex Smith in fact does want to keep playing, ship him and a couple of better picks on a better deal.  Just saying.

What team wants Smith with his salary? Not even 2018 Smith would work

[Andre The Giant]

 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

Defense Number 4 in points in 2019 and lost WC. 

 

Defense Number 19 in points in 2018 and lost in divisional round. 
 

But you’re right, it’s not as if he’s had a good defense consistently. 

 

 

 

 

You have the years backwards - 4th in 2018 and 19th in 2019. And I get pts is important, but it's not the only thing.

 

I am not sure how they managed to be 4th in pts when you look at the other numbers in 2018  - like yds (21st) , passing yds (28th) They were good against the run but that's about it. I would be interested to see TOP and 3rd down %. But none of it that great.

 

And 2019 they were near the bottom in most everything - yds 28th - passing yds 28th - rushing yds 25th. 

 

And 2020 was a disaster defensively while he played pretty well. I believe he led the league in passing yds. He had his highest comp % at +70%. 33TDs only 7 ints and led the league in y/a at 8.9. And this after OBrien sends one of the best WRs in football out of the building! 

 

I honestly thought he had great Ds too until I looked and he really did not have as much help as many believe. It's likely moot as i doubt he is leaving Houston and if he does we do not realistically have enough resources to be a seriously player for him.  

 

But I would love to see him the B&G. I think he could instantly make us relevant, at least favorites to win the NFC East and likely to win the NFC, with jsut a few more pieces. 

[Est.1974]

I think it was heavily implied that Elway loved Mac Jones, could he really go top ten?

 

Alternatively, how disappointed would we all be with an Alex Smith/Mac Jones combination...and no it’s not my choice outcome...

[Jericho]

On 1/28/2021 at 2:53 PM, Riggo#44 said:

 

I understand how good Stafford is, but I have serious trepidations about trading for him. He's 33--and yes players are healthier and play longer, but how many times have we done this? Made the one-player-away trade and declared ourselves Super Bowl contenders? And, then, how many times has that one player wholly underwhelmed. I know it's apples to oranges, but I keep thinking about Russell Westbrook. That trade was lauded, by and large, and has completely flopped in this early season. 

 

And the only QBs to lead their teams to the Super Bowl over the last 20 years or so that were not drafted by their current team are the GOATs: Manning, Brady, and Brees--all sure-fire, first-ballot HOFers.

 

It makes me worried.

 

I agree with your general point. The team has been down this road three times in recent memory (Brunell, McNabb, and Alex Smith). And yes they're not literally the same, but they're not that different either. Stafford clearly is no sure thing and his injury history scares me. But the Westbrook analogy make no sense. No one (at least no one who knows what they are doing), thought Westbrook was going to be some savior. It was basically a swap of disgruntled stars on bad contracts. Wall was basically untradeable given his contract and injuries, so the fact the Wiz got something was a minor miracle. But it wasn't some grand move.

[Jericho]

On 1/28/2021 at 3:29 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, let's go through this real quick:

 

Teams that absolutely need a QB: (I'm assuming Watson and Stafford are traded, because Watson has asked for a trade and the Lions have put Stafford on the block)  [Draft pick in parenthesis]

 

"List 1"

Colts (21)

Jags (1, 25)

Texans  (No first round picks)

Lions (7)

Bears (20)

Saints (assumption Brees retires) (28)

Patriots (15)

Washington (19)

 

 

So running the numbers, you have 8 openings. Some other teams may create openings, but as you mentioned they would put another QB out there into the acquisition pool. But you have 4 highly touted rookies plus Stafford and Watson. Now, not every draft pick will necessarily go to a QB needy team. But it does seem like at least two teams miss out in this game of musical chairs. It wouldn't surprise me if Washington was one of those two teams.

[Est.1974]

10 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Referencing Keim's podcast - Agent Joel Corry believes 1st this year, 2nd next year should do a Stafford deal.  Doesn't seem like a franchise crippling deal if it happens.

 

 

Love Jon Allen, think he’s vastly underrated, but 17mil per year...erm I’m struggling with that.

 

As for Stafford for #19 plus our 2022 second rounder. I mean that’s a complete no-brainer, right?

[Jericho]

On 1/28/2021 at 12:02 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

In the last 40 years or so, we've only taken IMO one swing at a potential elite QB and swung for the fences for a QB.  That was in 2012 for RG3.  That failed.  We are 0-1.   The other dudes I don't consider shocking misses.  I was openly rooting that they wouldn't draft Haskins on draft day.  But i did like RG3. 

 

I'd add Heath Shuler to the list as a potential elite QB. Top QB off the board at # 3 overall. So 0-2

[Jericho]

14 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Was it ever revealed what caused Aaron Rodgers to drop? Every year I wonder about one of the top guys dropping to our pick. Given, there haven't been guys I really wanted since Lawrence. Even Tua last year was more hype than I wanted to get involved in. Burrow was fools gold to me because of his history. Previous years, I wanted Allen but didn't think he'd drop that much farther. DIdn't study Mahomes/Watson/Tribusky. Same for Goff and Wentz. DIdn't like Watson and Mariota. Didn't like Bortles/Bridgewater/Manzel (although I was curious about Bridgewater but we didn't have a first). Didn't like Manuell.

 

 

I've always though it was the "Tedford" effect. Jeff Tedford was the Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach for Fresno State when Trent Dilfer and David Carr were there. Then became the Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach for Oregon when Joey Harrington and Akili Smith were there. And then the Cal head coach when Kyle Boller and Aaron Rodgers were there. The first five were all high first round picks (well Boller was more mid first round) and all were busts. I think people got a bit gun-shy on Tedford QBs despite otherwise strong scout rankings

[FootballZombie]

7 minutes ago, Jericho said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Washington was one of those two teams.

 

The Saints are an absolutely putrid, ugly and horrific 100M over the cap. They will have to take a Jason sized meat cleaver to that roster and they still wont be able to pay a new QB in anything but monopoly money. The only way they are get a chance to take a bigger name QB off the board is by trading and giving up salary in the process. Most teams giving up these QBs are not looking to acquire salary, so i don't see them having too many options.

 

The Colts have a poor draft pick, but money to burn. they can take on a few toxic assets to acquire a QB, or take on a pricey QB.

 

The Bears are not so lucky. They have a worse pick than ours and very little cash.

 

I think the Bears and Saints are the ones left wanting and will have to compete is the secondary post June 1st QB trade market

[RWJ]

28 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Love Jon Allen, think he’s vastly underrated, but 17mil per year...erm I’m struggling with that.

 

As for Stafford for #19 plus our 2022 second rounder. I mean that’s a complete no-brainer, right?

You can't pay them all.  I keep Ioanman and Settle and you either trade Allen or Payne. Look at their career stats.  We have good depth there at DT.  Ioanman is signed trough 2022 and so is Settle.  We can let either Allen or Payne go but we can't pay for both.  

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

You can't pay them all.  I keep Ioanman and Settle and you either trade Allen or Payne. Look at their career stats.  We have good depth there at DT.  Ioanman is signed trough 2022 and so is Settle.  We can let either Allen or Payne go but we can't pay for both.  

Well, just in terms of DTs, we could sign Allen, let Io walk after 2022, and extend Payne that same offseason.  That leaves Settle, and I’m not sure what will come of that situation.  Will we sign him to a decent contract (maybe closer to Io’s contract or less).  Will he want to go elsewhere for the chance to start?  Etc.  Taking it a bit further, if we sign Allen to a 3 or 4 year deal, his contract is up right around the time we have to pay Montez (maybe they overlap a year) or Chase.  Philosophically, we should be able to get away with 2 pretty hefty contracts - Allen/Io, then Allen/Payne, then Payne/Montez - but we could be in a tough spot when we have to pay Chase the equivalent of 2 big contracts.  

 

One issue with the above though (and there are a few, including whether we shell out big money for a qb, how much of the cap Scherff and McLaurin command, etc) is we will want to start grooming someone to take over for Io and/or Settle, and it will be hard to carry them on the roster with 4 DTs ahead of them, so we run the risk of him getting poached.  I’m not too clear on the new PS rules and if they’re only temporary.

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Love Jon Allen, think he’s vastly underrated, but 17mil per year...erm I’m struggling with that.

 

As for Stafford for #19 plus our 2022 second rounder. I mean that’s a complete no-brainer, right?

 

Yeah that's top 5 DT money. Allen is a great leader/teammate, and a good player, but he definitely is not a top 5 DT. He makes some good plays at times and is very consistent, but is far from a game wrecker or dominating presence. IIRC he was the least double teamed guy out of our 3 main interior linemen.

 

Stafford plus a 2022 2nd rounder I'd definitely do.

[Koolblue13]

Allen is a top 5 DT and our best Dlineman in regards to pass rushing and against the run.

 

Settle is the most over rated player on this team in a very long time. Iaon is only great if he's playing.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Allen is a top 5 DT and our best Dlineman in regards to pass rushing and against the run.

 

Settle is the most over rated player on this team in a very long time. Iaon is only great if he's playing.

 

So how is Settle so overrated? He was 4th on the team in sacks last year and led all interior lineman in sacks. He also was 5th in tfl and only 2nd among interior lineman and all this while playing less than half the snaps. Below would be his numbers if extrapolated out to the same snaps as Allen and payne. He would blow them away in sacks, TFL, and QB hits. Now I can see there being an argument that when he comes in he does not get the double teams the other guys get but OK, he is making the plays he should. And if he was a starter he would be double teamed. 

 

I am not saying he is a pro bowler or anything based on those numbers. I am saying he would very likely be a starter on most any other team and is actually under valued by many fans. 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Allen is a top 5 DT and our best Dlineman in regards to pass rushing and against the run.

 

Settle is the most over rated player on this team in a very long time. Iaon is only great if he's playing.

 

Allen is not in any way a top 5 DT. He's our least double teamed and even with that he's still not exactly killing it. He's a good player and a great leader/teammate, but he's not in any way a player that teams have to game plan around and be aware of on every snap. That's what a top 5 interior DL is. He isn't that. In 2019 Ioan was by far the most double teamed of our guys and he still got 8.5 sacks. Look where Allen is. He's clearly not a guy who scares many teams into assigning multiple guys to block him. 

 

[Chump Bailey]

Playing fantasy GM for a minute, I'd let Allen go and bring in Dalvin Tomlinson to pair with Payne. Caleb Brantley (underrated DT) assuming he returns, Loannidis and Settle with Sweat and Chase = Most dominate DL in football.

[bowhunter]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Houston went 4-12. Does that mean that they should have a negative 1.2 win total if they trade him? 

[Mooka]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

So how is Settle so overrated? He was 4th on the team in sacks last year and led all interior lineman in sacks. He also was 5th in tfl and only 2nd among interior lineman and all this while playing less than half the snaps. Below would be his numbers if extrapolated out to the same snaps as Allen and payne.

 

Add 500 more snaps to Tim Settle and then see how dominant he is come week 15/16/17.

 

Not saying he couldn't but being a DT means you slam into big Olinemen every play. Allen and Payne play all game. 800+ snaps.

 

Settle plays 300+

[Malapropismic Depository]

We need a QB who is at least somewhat mobile.

Because - according to a Puppet sitting on the NFL Network roundtable - who has never been wrong, by the way - the league is going the way of the running QB.

This year, there were 126 rushing TD's by QB's - more than ever - and almost 50 more than last year.

Maybe it's born from necessity due to DLmen becoming faster and more athletic. But I think we should listen to the puppet, for once. And go with the QB with some legs.

Doesn't have to be Michael Vick - but he gotta have some moves