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FA Bust - Landon Collins

Silvernon

By Silvernon,
in The Stadium

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BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

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Always thought he was overrated in NY because he went to Alabama. He was All Pro in 2016 because that was the year where NYG was a mediocre team by every analytical measurement but got super lucky in close games and went 11-5. That’s how he got All Pro and I’ll argue it until I’m blue in the face. He’s strictly a box safety that occasionally throws a big hit. 
 

I firmly believe Bruce spent all that money on him because he went to Bama and he’s such a Sean Taylor fan. Of course I didn’t expect him to be completely terrible so quickly but I thought he’d be a pedestrian signing that might sell a few jerseys the first year or so. Now, I’m ready to get out of the contract yesterday. 
 

Also it didn’t help that he spent the entire 2019 offseason being a spurned ex lover to the Giants with him constantly mentioning them in the media. They then proceeded to kick our sorry asses twice and probably will do so again this season. 

16 hours ago, KDawg said:


It’s not about using him poorly, persay. It’s about him not fitting at safety with his skill set and the limitations he brings to a defense while trying to force him into that role. 
 

NY had a much better coverage unit as a whole, which let Collins do what he does. Our coverage unit is very poor. Our corners do their job for the most part. Neither safety can cover well and our backers have been well below par. When you have 4 guys in your coverage unit that have the same weakness in skill, individuals stand out more.

My sour grapes notwithstanding...this is spot on analysis per usual from you 

Edited by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93
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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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12 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

We can't utilize Collins to his fullest because we are just so awful in coverage from all our other guys. You can't have one Safety dedicated to just battering people at the LoS when nobody can cover. Its all hands on deck in the backfield at this point.

You know, I was thinking about this.  I think Jack’s going about it backwards.  He’s trying to help the coverage by playing more guys in coverage.

 

I think there will come a time when he’s going to have to throw caution to the wind and just bring pressures all the time.   Because what he’s doing isn’t working.  So he’s going to have to roll the dice and play high risk football.  You,ll give up a few if the blitz doesn’t get home, but it’s better than dying by death of a thousand paper cuts.  

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ClaytoAli

ClaytoAli

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Washington's secondary has a problem, but it's not communication.

 

....“Again, it’s about leverages and understanding how to play the leverages," Rivera said at FedEx Field following his team's fourth-consecutive defeat. "That’s what we’re working on with these young guys."

 

"Some guys don’t understand how to play with leverage," he said while back in Ashburn on Monday. "By that, we mean knowing where your help is. If your help is inside, then you should play your guy outside to in. If your help is outside, then you should play your guy inside to out."...

 

..."Sometimes it looks like we’re not where we need to be, and that’s the frustrating part because I see that’s something that the coaches are working on, something that the players are practicing, but we’ve got to take what we’re being taught, what we’re doing and transfer that from the practice field to the game field and go out and execute."

 

The concept of leverage will surely be at the top of the defense's list as they prepare for their next chance in New York versus the Giants. Thanks to how truly awful the NFC East is, it's not too late for them to rectify their troubles with it....

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/washingtons-secondary-has-problem-year-and-its-not-communication


 

Edited by ClaytoAli
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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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13 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

And their salaries add up to his. 

who gives a flying **** about his salary? Why does that matter? It's like bringing up his draft position. Are we short of cap money? No? Then why even mention it? It's such moot point to make.

 

And it's wrong. Of the 5 guys in the double digit millions club, Smith Scherff and Kerrigan certainly aren't producing more than Collins.

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stevemcqueen1

stevemcqueen1

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Collins has been really bad.  I think he's playing through an injury, and I respect him for that.  But he was a bad signing.  I complained about it when we did it.  My guy @volsmet did too, and I remember him arguing that Tyrann Mathieu is who we should have signed.  That should be a lesson about the value of the position.  It's never worth big money to sign guys who only play safety or don't turn the ball over a ton.

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KDawg

KDawg

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1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Collins has been really bad.  I think he's playing through an injury, and I respect him for that.  But he was a bad signing.  I complained about it when we did it.  My guy @volsmet did too, and I remember him arguing that Tyrann Mathieu is who we should have signed.  That should be a lesson about the value of the position.  It's never worth big money to sign guys who only play safety or don't turn the ball over a ton.


Man, for all the other stuff we’ve been apart on we agree here.

 

I wasn’t against Landon as a signing. I liked it... if they used him as a true SS. What I didn’t account for was the true SS being a unicorn along the lines of a fullback. In today’s game, you really need two free safety types roaming back there. Guys that can field but also come downhill a little.

 

The worst thing to have in your secondary is two SS types. Which is what we have. And the fact our backers are poor at carrying/diagnosing route concepts you have a stew of **** that is hard to overcome.

 

Collins has talent... but to me that talent isn’t what we need on this defense. He’s more of a backer in today’s game without the anchor.

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stevemcqueen1

stevemcqueen1

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2 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Man, for all the other stuff we’ve been apart on we agree here.

 

I wasn’t against Landon as a signing. I liked it... if they used him as a true SS. What I didn’t account for was the true SS being a unicorn along the lines of a fullback. In today’s game, you really need two free safety types roaming back there. Guys that can field but also come downhill a little.

 

The worst thing to have in your secondary is two SS types. Which is what we have. And the fact our backers are poor at carrying/diagnosing route concepts you have a stew of **** that is hard to overcome.

 

Collins has talent... but to me that talent isn’t what we need on this defense. He’s more of a backer in today’s game without the anchor.

 

Yeah motion has changed secondary play in a dramatic way.  You basically need a group of good generalists because you can guarantee your underneath defenders are going to be isolated in man coverage many times a game.  But guys also need to be able to rotate into deep zones comfortably and that also goes for the outside corners too.  Seven men on a string is how I like to think of it.  It was kind of a revelation for me when I watched the Packers operate.  It's really hard to get that many quality DBs on your roster if you're spending a ton of money on your safeties.

 

Collins's box work has been really bad this year outside of a very few splashes.  That goes against his resume and it's what makes me think he's probably hurting pretty bad.

 

The dream scenario to me is to move on from Collins this off-season and go after Desmond King.  That's the kind of box play making DB with the versatility to carry slot guys in man that I'd be willing to pay moderately for.  Then again, we don't have a lot of free agency draw and would probably have to pay through the nose to get him.

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KDawg

KDawg

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8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Yeah motion has changed secondary play in a dramatic way.  You basically need a group of good generalists because you can guarantee your underneath defenders are going to be isolated in man coverage many times a game.  But guys also need to be able to rotate into deep zones comfortably and that also goes for the outside corners too.  Seven men on a string is how I like to think of it.  It was kind of a revelation for me when I watched the Packers operate.  It's really hard to get that many quality DBs on your roster if you're spending a ton of money on your safeties.

 

Collins's box work has been really bad this year outside of a very few splashes.  That goes against his resume and it's what makes me think he's probably hurting pretty bad.

 

The dream scenario to me is to move on from Collins this off-season and go after Desmond King.  That's the kind of box play making DB with the versatility to carry slot guys in man that I'd be willing to pay moderately for.  Then again, we don't have a lot of free agency draw and would probably have to pay through the nose to get him.


As a HS DC my scheme operates on the string, so I’m all about having a string and generalists.  Agree again.

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Silvernon

Silvernon

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1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

who gives a flying **** about his salary? Why does that matter? It's like bringing up his draft position. Are we short of cap money? No? Then why even mention it? It's such moot point to make.

 

And it's wrong. Of the 5 guys in the double digit millions club, Smith Scherff and Kerrigan certainly aren't producing more than Collins.

He's paid to be elite, not only on this team but among his peers in the league. It matters. 

 

If you have a bad player on your team but it's house league and everyone pays to play, that's one thing. When you are the best paid defender, you should be the best. It is reasonable to expect results consistent with the compensation. 

Edited by Silvernon
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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Collins has been really bad.  I think he's playing through an injury, and I respect him for that.  But he was a bad signing.  I complained about it when we did it.  My guy @volsmet did too, and I remember him arguing that Tyrann Mathieu is who we should have signed.  That should be a lesson about the value of the position.  It's never worth big money to sign guys who only play safety or don't turn the ball over a ton.

I was definitely a Collins guy and have been super disappointed. I think Apke is still better outside of the box than people are crediting him for, especially after missing a tackle because of angle in that video, which was his biggest knock. 

 

I thin I was just happy that we were finally addressing the safety position at all, after ignoring it for so long like we have TE.

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wit33

wit33

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9 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

He's not worth the salary. But he's not bad.

We got bigger problems than an overpaid player, and bigger problems than Collins


This has to change though, the top 5-7 contracts MUST produce at least at a good to great level. I have confidence in Rivera to identify these guys in the coming years, especially because he has a certain way of doing things with clear expectations that should provide him great opportunities to identify these guys and pay them. I believe this is why he was apprehensive in paying anyone this past off season, due to wanting to see them off the field, but also how they fit in his scheme. 
 

Fascinated to see his first few big signing/resigns and feel this will factor significantly in how we view Rivera’s time here. Not the only variable, but significant. 
 

It would be an interesting case study on former coaches/FOs here (and/or the league) and who the top 8 paid guys were and what their production was or wasn’t.  

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Silvernon

Silvernon

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Daniel Jones burns you for the longest run of his career because you didn't set the edge. 

 

On the Slayton TD...just run through that guy, just immediately opted to take it and go for a deflection. 

 

Long play off boot to Engram. Who was in coverage? Collins. 

 

Yes, I'm singling him out more than anyone else...but so are opposing teams. 

Edited by Silvernon
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