2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

PFF had us ranked as the #6 overall OL in the NFL after the end of 2020. I think "best in the league" could be a stretch but if we hit on a young stud LT (via trade or the draft) I could see them moving up to top 3 potentially.

 

Yeah agree.  Best is hyperbole.   But Rouillier is an above average center IMO.  Scherff is a borderline stud at RT.  Moses is a good RT who arguably had his best season last year.  Our LG was surprsingly above average.  LT was just OK.

 

Tevin Jenkins i think is potentially an elite run blocker.  

2 hours ago, mudhog said:

I totally agree with you about WR. But every time I try to get a full compliment of players to fill our needs, it seems that one is always left out of the equation when trying to move back a bit and pick up draft stock for next year QB. the way I see it, we want (in no particular order) OLT, OG, ILB, TE2, CB, FS, QB, WR and RB. That is 9 players, and groups of them are clustered in different rounds. Even if you are firing on all cylinders and luck is with you, it is hard to nail even 7 of these in 1 draft. So, if I had to choose 2 positions to go lite on, for me it would be WR or RB. 

I feel that I have just mocked a masterpiece here though! Again, in this beautiful mock, I am missing a WR. But I did trade up for an extra 1st, 4th and 6th in 2022 at the cost of 0ur 2022 3rd. Here goes: 
 

#28 Sam Cosmi LOT
#62 Aaron Robinson CB
#74 Quinn Meinerz OC/OG
#82 Tommy Tremble TE
#96 Chazz Surratt OLB
#124 Ar'Darius Washington FS

#163 Chubba Hubbard RB
#244 Shane Buechele QB 
+ 2022 NO 1st
+ 2022 IND 4th

+ 2022 NE 6th

 

I have come very close to duplicating this, but if this were our draft, I would celebrate. The only weakness we might have left would be WR2.

Please feel free to critique and give feedback, thanks.


 

 

good mock.  I like most of the players you got.  I have a hard time just with Chazz Surratt but I do like him when he is used as a pass rusher.  I noticed PFF is a big Surratt fan. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, The Rook said:

 

Not sure if you are tongue-in-cheek, or not, but looking at the past 2nd round results, I hope they consider the Montez Sweat type trade. This year and next year's second round picks for a late first round this year.  Looking at Jax or Jets because they have multiple picks this year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

I'm 100% serious about trading back into the first. Maybe we draft JOK at 19 and then come back for Collins or Moehrig in the 20's. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

The Giants have struck out ignoring red flags three times in eight first-round picks since 2015: Ereck Flowers’ work ethic, Eli Apple’s immature response to adversity and DeAndre Baker’s 2020 arrest on gun charges still haunt a roster that has turned to free-agent spending sprees. None of those three draft selections finished out their rookie contracts.

 

So, the big question on April 29 is whether those failed picks will shout “Boo!” loudly enough to scare away the Giants from Micah Parsons — and his potential to be their best linebacker since Lawrence Taylor retired in 1994 — if he is available when they are on the clock at No. 11?

“The Giants are hoping another team takes him,” a talent evaluator with another NFL team told The Post, “so they don’t have to decide.”

 

The NFL Draft is an annual balancing act of assessing risk and talent, especially with projected high first-round picks.

Parsons, 21, is the prospect in this class who has spent the most time answering about his character, as he acknowledged at Penn State’s Pro Day. Parsons was suspended from his first high school for allegedly “inciting a riot” in 2016 — he yelled “Gun!” while police were in the cafeteria, his father told PennLive.com after watching soundless surveillance footage of the incident — and he and other Penn State football players were accused of hazing another teammate in a 2020 civil lawsuit.

 

“Obviously, people had some concerns about things that had happened,” Parsons said when asked by The Post about his character. “We all made mistakes when we were 17, 18. If someone is going to judge me over that, then I would rather not be in their program. I know the type of person I’m becoming. I know the type of father I’m becoming [to his soon-to-be 3-year-old]. That’s all that matters to me.”

For some teams, that answer — and the positive influence provided by former Giants and Washington linebacker LaVar Arrington — will sound convincing. For others, it might not. How should the Giants see Parsons? Maybe like two other blasts from the past.

“There’s some [concern] because he comes off like Odell Beckham with high-maintenance stuff — like a quarterback playing linebacker,” one NFL scout said. “But I’m not worried about Parsons like I was worried about Baker.

 

“He’s going to be a rock star, like an LT. He’s going to play early, he’s going to have success, he’s going to be sitting court-side. Nothing is going to stand in the way of football for Micah. The red flags aren’t enough to deter you from drafting him.”

Letting past mistakes impact the future — rather than looking at cases individually — could create a worst-case scenario. No shortage of teams regret passing on Tyrann Mathieu, who slipped to the third round in 2013 after repeat drug test failures led to his dismissal from LSU. Mathieu is one the NFL’s top safeties and most-respected leaders for the Chiefs.

 

“If I’m the Giants and I’ve had a recent track record of some misses with key assets,” one league source said, “I’m probably going to be a little more risk-averse with that first pick and lean a little more towards the higher floor than getting too carried with the higher ceiling.”

[JamesMadisonSkins]

If this goes down I trade up with Denver and take Sewell. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

then again ... maybe waiting and using the picks to double dip with OG/OT would set up our OL for years to come. 

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm 100% serious about trading back into the first. Maybe we draft JOK at 19 and then come back for Collins or Moehrig in the 20's. 

 

What if we got Darrisaw at 19 and then traded back into the mid 20s and grabbed JOK?

[RWJ]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Just because Reyes was part of the UF workout?  they've been at all the big school workouts from what I can tell. 

 

Guess it's just me.  Oh well. 

[dyst]

Can the Patriots just ****ing go away. I’d like to follow these new QBs that come into the league but it’s going to be annoying if the Patriots grab one and he turns out to be good.

Edited April 14, 2021 by dyst

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

If we wanted to trade down from #19...

 

Who would have to be at our pick to get good compensation?  If the Top 3 WR's, Top 2 healthy CB's, Top 3 OT's, and all Top 5 QB's, plus Pitts are all gone...who would be left to really get a team excited to trade up?  That's 14 likely picks ahead of us.  One of the LB's?  Does one of the Edge guys have something interesting enough to get a team to trade up for them?

[mhd24]

31 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

If we wanted to trade down from #19...

 

Who would have to be at our pick to get good compensation?  If the Top 3 WR's, Top 2 healthy CB's, Top 3 OT's, and all Top 5 QB's, plus Pitts are all gone...who would be left to really get a team excited to trade up?  That's 14 likely picks ahead of us.  One of the LB's?  Does one of the Edge guys have something interesting enough to get a team to trade up for them?

 

 

If AVT is there, I can see the Jets trading up (jumping Chicago).  Buffalo needs edge desperately and Phillips/Ajulari could both be there.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[kingdaddy]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Great stuff SIP....love our scouting dept.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I far from always agree with McShay-Kiper but I love their podcasts.  They are really entertaining for me.  I often will hear a tidbit or two that I didn't know about prospects -- they get some inside information that otherwise I don't have access to.  They got good banter and some of it is funny.  McShay on the podcasts loves to accuse Kiper of usurping some of his favorite less hearlded prospects that he's touted first by putting them up higher in his (Kipers) own mocks so he can goad McShay later on the draft broadcasts that he rated him higher. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn’t agree more about the Kiper/McShay podcast. Very entertaining. Their rapport on the podcast is better than on tv.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just watched Monty Rice.  I like him as a 4th rounder type.  Really sound player across the board.  A bit late IMO at diagnosing and readjusting if he guesses wrong.  Just OK to me in coverage.  But he is real sound tackler.  And is feisty, will fight through traffic.   I am sucker for linebackers who make diving tackles like he does.    One of the better run stopping LBs I've watched for this draft. 

 

Pros

Good lateral/sideline to side line speed

Plays like a dog -- good energy

Moves fluidly when he backpeddles

Tackles very well including in open field

Can rush the passer even though I didn't see him do it much in the games I watched

Even though he gets swallowed by big O lineman he's good at using his hands to shed himself off of some of those blocks

Even though he makes some highlight type tackles -- he's not a reckless tackler like Laron Landry who would make highlight tackles but also have big whiffs.  Rice tends to get his man down. 

 

Cons

Seems a beat behind some plays especially in coverage

Gets washed out of plays in traffic

Like most linebackers in this draft (even Z. Collins) he plays much better when he's kept clean versus taking on O lineman charging forward

Short arms

Got banged up quite a bit in college

Doesn't seem to be a playmaker in coverage.  I wonder how he'd do with his short arms, etc trying to cover big TEs

Edited April 14, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RabidFan]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

then again ... maybe waiting and using the picks to double dip with OG/OT would set up our OL for years to come. 

Im down with that. We know Scherff is gone next year.
Or Hopefully Charles can play LG and we move Sweitzer to his natural RG spot, just need an LT.  3rd for baby zeus on draft day solves that too and opens up #19. 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

For what he is and the specialization he brings, JOK could be a blue chip player in my opinion. He’s my #1 LB currently and yea he is under-sized but if you’re going to be small you better have fire and explosion with a hard nosed mentality and he has it. Plus, Darius Leonard plays at 215lbs for the colts and JOK was at 225lbs at his pro day IIRC. Give him the right role and responsibility and he can be a playmaker for us and a firecracker of a tone setter to go along with Chase and that defense. If we want our defense to be feared, he’s the piece in the draft that adds the most to that end IMO. 

 

I think you're right, but IMO it takes a village to have that scary, dominating kind of defense we are trying to build.  You need physicality and attitude at every spot, even in your cornerbacks.  Leaders like Owusu-Koromoah help reinforce that kind of passion and energy in the unit, but the swagger needs to be there to begin with IMO.

 

My biggest concern with Owusu-Koromoah isn't his size actually.  It's his recklessness.  @KDawg and I have discussed the worrisome sloppiness in his play, and I think it should be taken into account in his draft stock.  He's going to give up big plays when he hunts for the big play.  The cost of this was minimized at ND because their offense was pretty explosive and very dominant on the ground and he had a superstar like Kyle Hamilton behind him cleaning up some of his mistakes too.  I felt like he had a tremendous amount of freedom in ND's defense and I don't know if I could give him that as an NFL D Coordinator.  The talent discrepancies just won't be there.

 

But at the end of the day, I've decided the big plays he surrenders are worth it because of how great his production and his energy are.

 

But I also don't feel like I have to sacrifice that with Zaven.  Zaven plays team ball and he doesn't give up as many chunky gains as Owusu-Koromoah.  That's a part of why I prefer Zaven as my favorite LB in the class.  And I do think Zaven is the kind of presence for a defense that helps define it.  When you're game planning and playcalling against his team, you're surely  identifying and keying him every play, just like you do for Chase.

 

I go back and forth about what I want to see with the rest of the defense, particularly the back seven.  I do want to see us continue to draft tone setters like Koromoah.  I'd love to add KJ Britt to our defense too, because I think his intensity and physicality and his work habits are exactly what I'm searching for.  I think he could be a really good special teamer too.  Ditto for Brady Breeze from Oregon.  He's a try-hard who could keep our DBs on notice because he's the kind of player who will take your starting job if you don't work to hold him off.  Always liked Shawn Davis from Florida too.  He's a smooth, crafty playmaker with surprising open field speed and he's also a nasty hitter who loves to set the tone.  And part of me wants to snap up some of these feisty zone corners on day three.  But looking at the corners this team has talked to, it seems like we're targeting the position earlier and we're looking for more premium talent there like Newsome and Asante Samuel Jr.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

then again ... maybe waiting and using the picks to double dip with OG/OT would set up our OL for years to come. 

 

In the TDN mock drafts that I've been doing lately, I've found that OLs have been the best values at our picks in the first four rounds.  I just did a class where I went Najee at 19 and then my next four picks were Wyatt Davis, Spencer Brown, Tremble, and Aaron Banks.  Kind of a nonsensical mish-mash of pieces, but that's what felt like BPA at each spot.

 

The OL class is really good this year.  Perhaps even better than the WR class.  If we aren't able to upgrade our offensive playmakers, then loading up on OLs wouldn't be the worst outcome.

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

What if we got Darrisaw at 19 and then traded back into the mid 20s and grabbed JOK?

The things I would do if this happened cannot be posted on this message board without my account being banned. 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

If we wanted to trade down from #19...

 

Who would have to be at our pick to get good compensation?  If the Top 3 WR's, Top 2 healthy CB's, Top 3 OT's, and all Top 5 QB's, plus Pitts are all gone...who would be left to really get a team excited to trade up?  That's 14 likely picks ahead of us.  One of the LB's?  Does one of the Edge guys have something interesting enough to get a team to trade up for them?

 

Newsome...I think he is actually going to go before 19 though. If he is there I could see TEN, NYJ, & JAX all being interested. 

[Warhead36]

If the worst Parsons is is OBJ I'd happily take him. That kind of personality can easily be contained in our locker room. I just don't want him committing felonies.

[Fresh8686]

@stevemcqueen1

 

No doubt, I feel like we’ll need a tone setter on every level of our defense and only our front 4 has that right now. JOK would be a step towards that but not the final piece by any means. 

It was tough to choose between JOK and Zaven, but I valued the former’s ability to cover both TE and WR, explosiveness, and pass rush potential over Zaven’s easy strength and awareness of the field. I could be wrong but I value JOK’s intensity slightly more than Zaven’s cerebral calm when it comes to tone setting. 
 

I think JDR and Ron can properly channel that intensity and allow him to play within his character but get to his spots, even if he does over extend himself at times. 
 

It’d be great though if we had a sure fire clean up man behind him though. I don’t know who that could be in the draft. I really like Richie Grant but he’ll be gone when we pick in the 2nd. Maybe your guy JJ or Caden Sterns in the 3rd? Or maybe even Andre Cisco?

[The Rook]

4 hours ago, The Rook said:

 

Not sure if you are tongue-in-cheek, or not, but looking at the past 2nd round results, I hope they consider the Montez Sweat type trade. This year and next year's second round picks for a late first round this year.  Looking at Jax or Jets because they have multiple picks this year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm 100% serious about trading back into the first. Maybe we draft JOK at 19 and then come back for Collins or Moehrig in the 20's. 

 

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

What if we got Darrisaw at 19 and then traded back into the mid 20s and grabbed JOK?

 

As I have tried to figure out the pros and cons of moving up in the first round or moving down for more picks, this is the scenario I like best.  I think there will be real strong value at #19 and before the end of the first round.  This year and next year's second could net some real quality. 

 

Things that make you go:

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

It’d be great though if we had a sure fire clean up man behind him though. I don’t know who that could be in the draft. I really like Richie Grant but he’ll be gone when we pick in the 2nd. Maybe your guy JJ or Caden Sterns in the 3rd? Or maybe even Andre Cisco?

 

JJ is getting projected into the second round now, which is too high for a safety for me.  Sucks because I really liked him as a single deep safety/nickel option.

 

I'm interested in Jevon Holland because he drew a Jordan Poyer comparison from Zierlein and that kind of player would be amazing in our D.  But he might go too early for my comfort level.

 

I was actually looking at mid to late round options at safety for the most part.  I really like Damar Hamlin and Talanoa Hufanga but both have pretty serious injury histories apparently.  That's a bummer.  That's why I've kind of shifted my focus to Brady Breeze and Shawn Davis.  They aren't as naturally gifted but they seem cleaner, and Davis has multiple years of good play on his resume.

 

The Syracuse kids are definitely interesting.  Cisco drives me nuts but his athleticism and his playmaking talent are undeniable.  Sterns and Ardarius Washington are interesting too, as they are two of the most athletic players at the position in the class.

 

This is a pretty solid safety class all in all.  There is going to be good day three depth this year.

[IrepDC]

Micah Parsons falls to us at 19. A few picks later, we trade our 2nd, 3rd, and next year's 2nd to get back into round 1 and draft Jamin Davis. We let them battle for the Middle spot with the other going to Weak side.

 

We're all throwing scenarios out there at this point.