2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

JOK/Toney/Jordan would be a good haul. JOK's size(or lack thereof) worries me though. He'll be good in coverage and in our nickel packages but can he get up there and take on blocks and stuff the run against grown men?

 

Joke/Toney/Jordan/Brown would be an amazing 1-3 rounds.

 

While I would prefer Darrisaw or another one of the top OTs in Round 2 pick 51 ... we are definitely in a position to draft a "project" for LT given we have Lucas on another cheap year and the TBD on where Saahdiq Charles could play. Brown is raw but if you give him a year to get up to speed, that would be awesome.

Edited April 14, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Master Blaster]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I do think Koramaoh is still more of a safety/hybrid player than pure LB.  That's my one pause about him.  Can you just stick him at weakside LB?  Maybe.  I don't know.  I do think what makes him special is he can do it all.  The one thing I'd give him actually over Derwin James is he is better at coverage.  Koramoah for these hybrid type players is as sticky in coverage as I've ever seen.  I think he'd put to rest our longish history of struggiling to stop TEs who kill us up the seam. 

 

 

You just described the prototypical Will in this scheme.

He would not cover TE's up the seam as a Will however.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

Just saw a mock that linked us to this guy:

 

 

I like Darden.  I've talked about him.  But linked to me doesn't mean someone throws him in a mock draft to us.  I am thinking hearing they really dig the player.

 

When it comes to slot receivers, a lot of them are on the smaller side.  Small and fast.  There are some big slot WRs.  But smallish-shifty fast receivers is normal for your slot receiver. 

[Anselmheifer]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Koramoah would be undersized if you planted him at LB versus using him in the Derwin James hybrid safety role.  His size is ironically about identical to Derwin James, with Koramoah currently being a little heavier than him.

 

But other than Koramoah who are the other undersized links to the team?

Like you, I also favor Koramoah over Collins. Unlike you, I think he’s fine at LB. he’s a WILL in our base and he’s fine as a nickel LB. Same size as Darius Leonard. Better athlete. I don’t think he helps fix our run defense, but he helps with everything else. Blitz package. Mobile QB’s. Speed to the outside. Coverage, obviously. Serious question, how much more do you trust Moreland covering a slot WR than JOK? I’m honestly not sure what the answer is. 

[Fresh8686]

37 minutes ago, Wyndorf25 said:

Just trying to get a pulse of where my fellow fans are with regards to going LB at 19...

 

Say, Collins and Kormamoah are there, who do people prefer? I prefer Collins simply because he is a bit bigger, but that's me.

I’m JOK, then Collins, then Jamin. 
 

@stevemcqueen1

 

Asante definitely has that edge as a tone setter, but I ask myself how much better is he than Jimmy Moreland? He’s sturdier than Jimmy and carries a better chance of playing outside in the NFL, but Jimmy while being more finesse has similar instincts and maybe slightly better burst. They both have clean feet, but Asante is slightly more vulnerable to pick/rub routes. 
 

Asante is also more of a bail out or play with cushion kind of guy with his eyes on the QB at nearly all times that like you mentioned would be kind of a funky fit with our D. I like his short area lateral mobility but I wish he was faster and more explosive. He’s got great play speed though and intensity for the size he brings. 
 

I think there are better choices available in the 2nd round, but would be cool with picking him in the 3rd or 4th. I’m bullish on Coach Harris and want to give him more traitsy guys to work with that fit more with WJ3’s size/speed profile.

[Master Blaster]

3 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I like the Jackson signing a lot but have confusion as well. Are they thinking of changing things up in general or just with him. He and how they will use L Collins are the two questions in figuring which style LB, S and CB are best.  One thing is for sure, at least one mobile tone setter is needed.

 

 

 

I see the team playing "Big Nickel" as he base defense which allow Curl and Collins to play at the same time with a FS.  Play Collins more in the slot.  I then see more man coverage schemes with pressure packages built in.

Say JOK is the pick at #19.  Play him and Holcomb as the two LB's in big nickel and suddenly the team has solid coverage ability across the board in base defense.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

You just described the prototypical Will in this scheme.

He would not cover TE's up the seam as a Will however.

 

That's part of my point I wouldn't just stick him at Will. And as I said I am not even sure he is a Will.  That's what makes me pause about him. 

 

It would be a waste to not use one of the best slot defenders in college in the slot. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Master Blaster said:

 

I see the team playing "Big Nickel" as he base defense which allow Curl and Collins to play at the same time with a FS.  Play Collins more in the slot.  I then see more man coverage schemes with pressure packages built in.

Say JOK is the pick at #19.  Play him and Holcomb as the two LB's in big nickel and suddenly the team has solid coverage ability across the board in base defense.

And JOK’s angles and size allow him to get washed and we get crushed even more in the run game. 
 

JOK is a tricky one to implement in our defense. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Like you, I also favor Koramoah over Collins. Unlike you, I think he’s fine at LB. he’s a WILL in our base and he’s fine as a nickel LB. Same size as Darius Leonard. Better athlete. I don’t think he helps fix our run defense, but he helps with everything else. Blitz package. Mobile QB’s. Speed to the outside. Coverage, obviously. Serious question, how much more do you trust Moreland covering a slot WR than JOK? I’m honestly not sure what the answer is. 

 

Koramoah could be at Will, I am just not sure that's all.  He's over 220 pounds now but I read during the season he was at times in the low 200s.  He feels to me more a safety/hybrid.  But he could probably work as a WILL.  In short, i am confident that he can easily be Derwin James Part 2.  And that's plenty for me.  I am not as sure about him playing Will -- I don't feel strongly yes or no on it.  

[Fresh8686]

I’d rather have Jaelon Darden in the 4th than Toney in the 2nd. He’s explosive as ****. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

44 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

I've never been a fan of under-sized, small, short players. There are notable exceptions but generally they don't work out. We seem to be being linked to under sized LBs AND WRs and it's freaking me out!

 

All of the better LB's besides JOK are decently sized if not bigger.  If you want average or plus sized WR's...this isn't the draft for you.  This draft is loaded with some talented slightly undersized (to really undersized) guys.  The best good sized WR is Jamarr Chase.  And we can't get him.  There's Terrace Marshall who is a maybe for the 2nd rounder, but he likely doesn't last there.  That's about it for Day 1 or 2 WR prospects that have average to above average size.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

3rd round:

Uggghhh, Tommy Tremble goes 1 pick before us in the 3rd, so we're stuck with Brevin Jordan.  Our offense would be full of slot guys or hybrid slot guys plus McLaurin at X.  Samuel is slot/wideout, Humphries is slot, Steve Sims is slot.  Brevin would be slot/2nd-inline.  Kadarius Toney is slot.  The only guys who can line up at Z are Cam Sims and Samuel...on occasion, but he should really be splitting half his reps in the slot to make best use of him vs the defense.

 

If Brevin Jordan could do more than speed outs against man coverage, I'd be excited.  But his other routes kind of suck.  He's got ability against zone though, so there's that.  He can threaten the Seam in zone.  Just wish he was either 3 inches taller, or blocked better, or could plant and change direction without having his whole body give it away, or something.

 

 

lol, I don't feel like debating Brevin Jordan with you again. It's cool. I know you don't care for him.

 

I've noticed there isn't a full censensus on Tremble.  I like him.  And I know you do.  Some here do as well.  Some not as much.

 

Brevin Jordan from what I recall is mostly liked here with you being a loud dissenter on him.  Maybe I missed another one who is down on him but I can't recall.

 

I noticed not everyone here digs Freiermuth.

 

Will see what happens on draft day but I gather if a TE is taken earlish, some will be unhappy.  And some will be happy. 

[Master Blaster]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

And JOK’s angles and size allow him to get washed and we get crushed even more in the run game. 
 

JOK is a tricky one to implement in our defense. 

 

Remember when Davis was drafted in Carolina he played both SS and Will.  It would not be Rivera's first time implementing a player with this skill set into the scheme. 

That was also a at a time when teams were running the ball more.  JOK fits even better in today's NFL than Davis did then.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Master Blaster

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Like you, I also favor Koramoah over Collins. Unlike you, I think he’s fine at LB. he’s a WILL in our base and he’s fine as a nickel LB. Same size as Darius Leonard. Better athlete. I don’t think he helps fix our run defense, but he helps with everything else. Blitz package. Mobile QB’s. Speed to the outside. Coverage, obviously. Serious question, how much more do you trust Moreland covering a slot WR than JOK? I’m honestly not sure what the answer is. 

 

I would trust Koramoah over Moreland in the slot.  Koramoah is really good in the slot.  I think he's elite in coverage.  I think he has a lot of potential as a blitzer.  I think he's good but not great against the run. 

 

Here's PFF take on him

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

Remember when Davis was drafted in Carolina he played both SS and Will.  It would not be Rivera's first time implementing a player with this skill set into the scheme. 

That was also a at a time when teams were running the ball more.  JOK fits even better in today's NFL than Davis did then.

I disagree. If the premise is playing JOK inside he’s a bad pick. He is not great versus the run and our weakness from our current backers is they don’t play downhill and take poor angles. That is JOK’s MO. 
 

If you’re playing JOK as a nickel he fits well. And he’s a stud there. Bad angles still but will make up for it with great plays. And he’s an athletic freak.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I noticed not everyone here digs Freiermuth.

 

Honestly can't decide on Freiermuth.  I'm not sure what he can/can't do as a route runner yet.  Penn State seemed to give him limited routes as a classic TE security blanket or check down.  Seemed like a fairly unimaginative scheme.  Well at least his usage in it.  So he's still a bit of an unknown.

 

I know he missed his pro-day due to some medical thing, but don't know if that was a cause of concern or not.

[Warhead36]

Its gonna come down to what we value more: coverage ability or run stopping. We were not a good run D last year primarily because of our LBs. Remember we got gashed by the likes of Wayne Gallman and Deandre Swift last year. In the playoff game it was much Lenny Fournette as Tom Brady that killed us. But we were also destroyed by good TEs all year and really have been for the better part of two decades.

 

For coverage: JOK. For run defense: Collins. Davis might be a balance between the two. Parsons might solve both but would probably need his coverage coaching up(but he's such a good athlete you figure he can do it).

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I disagree. If the premise is playing JOK inside he’s a bad pick. He is not great versus the run and our weakness from our current backers is they don’t play downhill and take poor angles. That is JOK’s MO. 
 

If you’re playing JOK as a nickel he fits well. And he’s a stud there. Bad angles still but will make up for it with great plays. And he’s an athletic freak.

 

As a read/react run defender, I agree with you fully.

 

But he does love run blitzing.  Tell him to shoot that gap or fly around the Edge and he'll do it without reading the action.  Often he's nowhere near the play direction.  But when he gets it right, it is pretty nice.

[skinny21]

56 minutes ago, Wyndorf25 said:

Just trying to get a pulse of where my fellow fans are with regards to going LB at 19...

 

Say, Collins and Kormamoah are there, who do people prefer? I prefer Collins simply because he is a bit bigger, but that's me.

Part of the problem I have here is who fits us best and which LB position(s) are the biggest need?

 

My take on our current guys:

SLB - I think Holcomb is pretty decent here.  He’d likely be helped by having a thumper next to him.  If he can keep improving in coverage, his speed/size combo is suitable to playing nickel.

 

MLB - Bostic’s a below average player, but also not bad.  We’re in much better shape if he’s coming off the field in nickel situations.  I think Mayo is decent competition for Bostic, I’m just not sure he lends much more to the position than Bostic does.

 

At WILL - Hudson gives us some of the energetic, high motor playmaker around the LOS, and I’m comfortable with him playing zone, but he needs to show a lot of growth in man coverage (particularly if Del Rio moves that direction).  I’m curious to see how he’d fare as a nickel backer, but he needs at least a potential starting caliber guy to push him (in base and nickel).  Hard to put too much trust in a guy that hasn’t seen many snaps for us and didn’t really play as a true backer at Michigan.  Harbaugh was very complementary about his smarts and leadership skills.

 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but all 3 backers - JOK, Collins, Jamin - would help our nickel D, but I don’t think any of them really address our weakness at MLB.  Collins seems like a SLB to me, and that would be replacing our best linebacker in Holcomb.

 

Given all of that, I think my preference might be JOK and then trying to address MLB in the middle rounds, but I’m open to having my mind changed.

[Warhead36]

I think the need of a pure MLB is reduced because we're in nickel so often. Basically we need a LB who can play in nickel but also won't be a complete liability in run defense. 

 

If Holcomb is penciled in as one of our starting LBs(lets roll with just 2 starting LBs since we're nickel so often)then we need someone who compliments him whoever that may be.

[Chris 44]

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I disagree. If the premise is playing JOK inside he’s a bad pick. He is not great versus the run and our weakness from our current backers is they don’t play downhill and take poor angles. That is JOK’s MO. 
 

If you’re playing JOK as a nickel he fits well. And he’s a stud there. Bad angles still but will make up for it with great plays. And he’s an athletic freak.

How would you rate JOK as a fulltime safety?

[JWB]

I don't think Collins is known for his run defense, and has missed tackles so he's not exactly a fit to shore up run def either. Starting to like JOK more than the others for defense if LT talent is gone.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Pure BPA, no trades, using TDN. I will admit, I crossed off IDL entirely off the draft list and RB off the list for the first 3 rounds. I did not repeat picks (Example, took Werner player #2 at 74 over Dyami Brown, a higher ranked player at WR but a position I already addressed). Scrapped BPA in Round 7 to get a pair of players at position of need with upside.  I also took Devonta Smith (#13) over Caleb Farley (#7) and Kwity Paye (#10) in Round 1, because I felt it was a fair weighted BPA there. Though Farley would have been a solid pick if meds check out.

 

19. Devonta Smith, WR Alabama

51. Wyatt Davis, IOL Ohio State

74. Pete Werner, LB Ohio State

82. Janarius Robinson, Edge Florida State

124. Kellen Mond, QB Texas A&M

163. Shaun Wade, CB Ohio State

244. Alaric Jackson, OT Iowa

246. Shaun Beyer, TE Iowa

 

No LT. No TE.

 

Same rules, using PFF.

19. Rashawn Slater, OT Northwestern

51. Pat Frieremuth, TE Penn State

74. Jamin Davis, LB Kentucky

82. Jamar Johnson, S Utah

124. Benjamin St.-Juste, CB Minnesota

163. Joshua Kaindoah, Edge Florida State

244. Shane Buechele, QB SMU

246. Malik Herring, Edge Georgie

 

[KDawg]

Slater at 19  ya okay. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Slater at 19  ya okay. 

hey, I said I did BPA. Not my fault the simulator left him there!