2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Lovi]

I think Charles should plan on G.  Rivera has already named dropped Villanueva if we don't come away with a T in the draft.

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, Lovi said:

I think Charles should plan on G.  Rivera has already named dropped Villanueva if we don't come away with a T in the draft.

Either way it would be a smart move to sign Villanueva now as insurance instead of someone picking him up.  Plug him in as your starting LT and if we were fortunate to get Darrisaw let him play RT.  Win Win.  Trade or keep Moses for dept.  8 million is not a lot to keep around for depth as LTs go down and if another team is desperate you get a good return on Moses for a draft pick.  

Edited April 14, 2021 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

NFL draft prospects who are perfect for today's game, plus their pro comp

• 
  Matt BowenESPN Staff Writer

The 2021 NFL draft class is talent-rich and packed with many different types of skill sets. But which prospects best fit the modern pro game thanks to scheme-specific traits and versatility?

What exactly does that entail? For quarterbacks, it's the physical tools and movement skills to produce in today's schemed passing attacks. The front-seven defenders with sub-package upside fit here, too. The running backs with dual-threat talent, receivers who can use their explosive traits after the catch and defensive backs with split-field range all qualify as well.

Let's look at 15 draft prospects who can be used in today's pro offensive and defensive schemes, explaining why they fit the modern game so well and which current or NFL player they compare best to at the next level. And while you might think of Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence, we wanted to think outside of him -- after all, he is one of the best QB prospects in years -- and look at some players who might not have his talent but can still make a big impact in the NFL thanks to their skill sets. We'll start with Florida tight end Kyle Pitts, a pass-game weapon with high-end traits.

 

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB/S, Notre Dame

Why he fits today's NFL: Owusu-Koramoah is the next high-end multi-dimensional defender to come out of the draft. Given his explosive traits and downhill juice to the ball, pro teams could grade out the Notre Dame star as a Will linebacker in a 40 front or as a Cover 3 strong safety. But that also creates opportunities for Owusu-Koramoah as a hybrid defender in sub-packages. He'll drop in coverage, track the ball with his sideline-to-sideline speed and get pressure off stunts. Owusu-Koramoah could find an early fit as a "monsterback" with the traits to create defensive matchups.

NFL comp: Shaq Thompson, Carolina Panthers

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/insider/story/_/id/31249514/nfl-draft-prospects-perfect-today-game-plus-their-pro-comps

[Warhead36]

I mean even Shaq Thompson is 6'0 230. JOK isn't even 220.

[Master Blaster]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean even Shaq Thompson is 6'0 230. JOK isn't even 220.

 

He was over 220 at his Pro Day

[RWJ]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

NFL draft prospects who are perfect for today's game, plus their pro comp

• 
  Matt BowenESPN Staff Writer

The 2021 NFL draft class is talent-rich and packed with many different types of skill sets. But which prospects best fit the modern pro game thanks to scheme-specific traits and versatility?

What exactly does that entail? For quarterbacks, it's the physical tools and movement skills to produce in today's schemed passing attacks. The front-seven defenders with sub-package upside fit here, too. The running backs with dual-threat talent, receivers who can use their explosive traits after the catch and defensive backs with split-field range all qualify as well.

Let's look at 15 draft prospects who can be used in today's pro offensive and defensive schemes, explaining why they fit the modern game so well and which current or NFL player they compare best to at the next level. And while you might think of Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence, we wanted to think outside of him -- after all, he is one of the best QB prospects in years -- and look at some players who might not have his talent but can still make a big impact in the NFL thanks to their skill sets. We'll start with Florida tight end Kyle Pitts, a pass-game weapon with high-end traits.

 

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB/S, Notre Dame

Why he fits today's NFL: Owusu-Koramoah is the next high-end multi-dimensional defender to come out of the draft. Given his explosive traits and downhill juice to the ball, pro teams could grade out the Notre Dame star as a Will linebacker in a 40 front or as a Cover 3 strong safety. But that also creates opportunities for Owusu-Koramoah as a hybrid defender in sub-packages. He'll drop in coverage, track the ball with his sideline-to-sideline speed and get pressure off stunts. Owusu-Koramoah could find an early fit as a "monsterback" with the traits to create defensive matchups.

NFL comp: Shaq Thompson, Carolina Panthers

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/insider/story/_/id/31249514/nfl-draft-prospects-perfect-today-game-plus-their-pro-comps

I really like this young man.  Putting my final wish list together have him at #19.  I don't see how Darrisaw who is the player I want at #19 make it to us unless we trade up.  All my wish lists are based off of non-trades. 

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

He was over 220 at his Pro Day

 

Question is whether he'll stay that way. Lots of guys who have questions about their size put on weight for the combine and/or their pro days. He's listed as 215 on ND's site and honestly he looked to me like he was closer to 205-210 during the season.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do really like him as a prospect...but I think it would be a mistake to assume that he'll actually be playing at 220-230. Maybe he can, but who knows if that would affect his play or not.

[Koolblue13]

I like JOK. Not sure exactly how he translates to the pros. He'll get picked on by solid blockers and face a lot of guys who are a hell of a lot bigger and still really fast.

 

It would be different if he was a safety and then he'd be my hands down favorite player. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

A lot of people here aren't really catching on with the times. 

 

Matt Milano - 6'0 221 pounds

Deion Jones - 6'1 222 pounds

Cory Littleton - 6'3 228 pounds (notice the height, guy has the build of a 6'0 220 pounder)

 

JOK is absolutely fine if his playing weight is going to be 221. 

[IrepDC]

When you talk about Collins' speed, I don't have issue with the 4.6. The way he plays in our defense, you likely consider him at Strong side. He is there behind Sweat, who is the fastest player on the field more often than he should be. You don't need Collins to have super speed, you need him to get downhill into his gap and maintain his lane getting there. I don't see him having a problem doing that. His instincts are an instant upgrade over what we saw from anyone on the second level of our defense last year.

 

If you want to keep Holcomb on the field, I believe Collins still has the intelligence and skill to play Middle in our defense. This of course comes with coaching from Rivera and Del Rio. He can move around well in the middle of the field and he can spy the QB. As long as he can consistently shoot his gaps, something he has already shown he can do on his way to DPOY in college, he can play either spot in our defense. Coverage is not a worry for me as he is fluent and has the size to stay with most TEs. His zone coverage is exceptional on tape.

 

Since the trade back into the first option is the hot topic right now, I'd throw out the scenario of JOK at 19 and a trade up for Collins. Thunder and lightning on defense? Flood the LB room with talent.

[Koolblue13]

Also, Hudson, JHC, Curl and Collins are all pretty similar. What we don't have is a big bully in the middle and Collins is great at getting arms up and being in the way of the passing lanes.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

When you talk about Collins' speed, I don't have issue with the 4.6. The way he plays in our defense, you likely consider him at Strong side. He is there behind Sweat, who is the fastest player on the field more often than he should be. You don't need Collins to have super speed, you need him to get downhill into his gap and maintain his lane getting there. I don't see him having a problem doing that. His instincts are an instant upgrade over what we saw from anyone on the second level of our defense last year.

 

If you want to keep Holcomb on the field, I believe Collins still has the intelligence and skill to play Middle in our defense. This of course comes with coaching from Rivera and Del Rio. He can move around well in the middle of the field and he can spy the QB. As long as he can consistently shoot his gaps, something he has already shown he can do on his way to DPOY in college, he can play either spot in our defense. Coverage is not a worry for me as he is fluent and has the size to stay with most TEs. His zone coverage is exceptional on tape.

 

Since the trade back into the first option is the hot topic right now, I'd throw out the scenario of JOK at 19 and a trade up for Collins. Thunder and lightning on defense? Flood the LB room with talent.

Collins speed will be an issue when he's in man coverage covering TEs though, and it does appear that we're gonna be converting to more of a man to man style coverage scheme this season. I do agree he'd be an upgrade for our run D though.

 

Like I said it comes down really to: upgrade run D(Collins) or upgrade coverage(JOK). Assuming those are our first round LB targets.

[CommDownMan]

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Ron has constantly said the right side of the line is good, he isn't drafting two tackles within the first two rounds of the draft. Coaches want to build the best team they can for the coming season, not worry about a need that can be handled a year later. 

 

I certainly don't disagree with this or what many said.  I was torn on the idea and can certainly see the argument against.  This draft is really deep with potential T's so I was curious where others are with it, since the value is likely really good.

 

I don't see many cases where there isn't a similar big board ranked player that gets a positional value bump up in a tie breaker situation in the event we went T in round one.

 

While not advocating cutting Moses next year, he'll have zero dead cap, be 31 and could be a solid trade piece if the hypothetical 2 worked out.  I still agree that there are likely better/smarter options for this year and long term, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't tempted.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I don't think Zaven Collins has speed issues.  I know how he tested, but when watching the tape it doesn't come up.  Once he gets those long legs going downhill, he closes ground.  Maybe he's not quite the huge athletic marvel people hoped.  He's not Brian Urlacher.  But he is still talented.  You can see him drop back into coverage 10 yards to the sticks, and then close on a checkdown to the numbers.  He's not slow.

 

This feels a little like when DK Metcalf had that combine where people said stuff like, "He literally can't turn, all he can do is run straight", and then blow some athletic testing way out of proportion when the tape doesn't reflect it.

 

I'm a big fan of athletic testing helping every evaluation, but it has to be married to what you see on tape.

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Collins speed will be an issue when he's in man coverage covering TEs though, and it does appear that we're gonna be converting to more of a man to man style coverage scheme this season. I do agree he'd be an upgrade for our run D though.

 

Like I said it comes down really to: upgrade run D(Collins) or upgrade coverage(JOK). Assuming those are our first round LB targets.

 

Which is annoying because they're both weaknesses. We got gashed by several teams on runs because we didn't have good downhill LBs but we also got gashed in the shallow flat and seam areas because our LBs are also not great in coverage. Brady basically said as much when it came to how they beat our defense.

[Burgundy Yoda]

27 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

I certainly don't disagree with this or what many said.  I was torn on the idea and can certainly see the argument against.  This draft is really deep with potential T's so I was curious where others are with it, since the value is likely really good.

 

I don't see many cases where there isn't a similar big board ranked player that gets a positional value bump up in a tie breaker situation in the event we went T in round one.

 

While not advocating cutting Moses next year, he'll have zero dead cap, be 31 and could be a solid trade piece if the hypothetical 2 worked out.  I still agree that there are likely better/smarter options for this year and long term, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't tempted.

I mean it's a nice idea, but something I don't see an NFL coach doing. He's going to want a 2nd rounder to play. This draft is pretty deep at T, that's why I wouldn't be too upset if we missed out on Darrisaw. Although the further back you get, the less likely you have that franchise LT waiting for you unless you get lucky. I question if there are any true elite Tackles at all in this draft, I don't see any. Sewell is probably the closest we'll get. I think Darrisaw projects to be a good player but he is behind all 4 of the Tackles that went in the 1st half of the 1st round last year. I can't really see Moses fetching anything in this market, teams are very stingy with their draft picks and someone 31 years old isn't going to get very many standing in line. We might get a late rounder at best, but most likely we would just release him. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Master Blaster]

55 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

A lot of people here aren't really catching on with the times. 

 

Matt Milano - 6'0 221 pounds

Deion Jones - 6'1 222 pounds

Cory Littleton - 6'3 228 pounds (notice the height, guy has the build of a 6'0 220 pounder)

 

JOK is absolutely fine if his playing weight is going to be 221. 

 

Nailed it. 
 

Factor in that WFT was rumored to be in the  Milano mix and JOK makes perfect sense. 

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

I'm a big fan of athletic testing helping every evaluation, but it has to be married to what you see on tape.

 

I agree 100%.  I think he is fast, especially when flowing and chasing downhill.  The OK state film shows a player who can keep up with high caliber speed, but it also showed he gets nervous and starts rushing his process and overpursuit issues start springing up when he knows he's got to run down a Chuba Hubbard.

 

I think the biggest concern with Zaven is his coverage versatility.  Tulsa ran very basic zone coverages, so it begs the question of is he capable only spot dropping into underneath zones or can he do more?  If he can learn to man cover too, I think you're taking the ceiling off the player.  You know he's a dangerous blitzer, he's balanced and fluid and a very good reader in zones, and he is a heady, forceful presence in the run game.

 

I feel like the reason why many of us here are hesitant about him is we just don't know what he can do in man coverage.  And if we pass on him (unless there are better OL options available and we go that direction), I think it'll be because we don't think he's a good fit for the kind of coverages we want to run.

[Burgundy Yoda]

6 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

Nailed it. 
 

Factor in that WFT was rumored to be in the  Milano mix and JOK makes perfect sense. 

It's less about height and weight and more about build and how their body is constructed. A 6'3 230 pounder probably has a similar frame to a 6'1 220 pounder. This what the prototype WLB is looking like. About an oversized traditional strong safety that is light on their feet. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Die Hard]

Milano missed A LOT of games last year due to injury.

[DWinzit]

9 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

I’d rather have Jaelon Darden in the 4th than Toney in the 2nd. He’s explosive as ****. 

Me too.I am not a big Toney fan. My guys are Bates if there in the 2nd or Rodgers first, the a couple guys with the 3nd 3rd rounder or 4th at WR like Darden

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, I don't feel like debating Brevin Jordan with you again. It's cool. I know you don't care for him.

 

I've noticed there isn't a full censensus on Tremble.  I like him.  And I know you do.  Some here do as well.  Some not as much.

 

Brevin Jordan from what I recall is mostly liked here with you being a loud dissenter on him.  Maybe I missed another one who is down on him but I can't recall.

 

I noticed not everyone here digs Freiermuth.

Freier is would be great at 51 but I doubt he makes anywhere near there. He sould be gone between our 1st and 2nd.

I think Brevin's numbers dropping him a little is a grea thing for WFT because it could get him to us in the 3rd round. 

Tremble I think is there at 51 but no way he makes it to WFT's 3rd round picks.

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

 

For coverage: JOK. For run defense: Collins. Davis might be a balance between the two. Parsons might solve both but would probably need his coverage coaching up(but he's such a good athlete you figure he can do it).

None of the 4 is the perfect answer sadly. What is for sure is any of them are major upgrades and at the end of the day, Parsons or Davis could fit the best. the problem with then is one is raw as can be and the other is known for some seriously poor decision making. I still like Zaven first

[DWinzit]

4 hours ago, jsharrin55 said:

Random question, since I've seen a few things about Cosmi at 51.

 

If we take Darrisaw at 19 and Cosmi is sitting at 51 as our big board BPA, do you take him?

Months ago this seemed so much easier when Cosmi or Eich were definitely going to be there at 51, 1. Collins, 2. Cosmi 3a. Brevin  3b. Cosco or Stern

[Skinsinparadise]

 

I think Zaven's speed is fine.  But watching his games, I didn't love him chasing down runners in the open field.  And more importantly I didn't love his open field tackling.   He's OK on front.  Not a disaster but not special IMO.  The 4.67 speed to me marries up to that really well.   So does IMO his mediocre run stopping score from PFF and his high miss tackle rate.  To me he's OK against the run in open field but nothing spectacular.  Heck I thought Monty Rice, a 3rd-4th round type prospect, was a better open field run stopper than Zaven.   Zaven stops the run well in the box. 

 

But let me stress didn't love is the operative expression.  He's not bad at it but nothing great either IMO.  Jamin Davis is much better as to this specific attribute IMO.  I like both players in coverage.  And I like both going after the QB but prefer Zaven on that front.   

 

Zaven's strength isn't IMO to take on O lineman head on and blow them up.  Though he does on occasion.  But I love Zaven as a blitzer and charging full blast at the line of scrimmage and darting around O lineman.  When he showcases his run stopping ability in my book its with him charging forward and blowing up runs in their tracks.   Good run stopper in the box. 

 

Bullock who does some good work in his film reviews albeit I don't always agree with him -- seems to agree with me on Zaven's tackling but disagrees with me as to his sideline sideline speed.

 

I slightly prefer Jamin Davis to Collins.  Interesting for me that Bullock also prefers Jamin but his angle is entirely different than mine.  I don't want either at 19.  But wouldn't hate it if they took either one. 

 

Here's his take on Collins which he posted today and below that what he thought of Jamin Davis.   

 

https://markbullock.substack.com/p/nfl-draft-profile-lb-zaven-collins?r=fd8sn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy

 

While Collins showed good athleticism and strong mental processing, he did struggle with his tackling in each game I saw. He often managed to put himself in great positions to make plays, only to miss the tackle.

 

Overall, Collins is a solid prospect with good upside. His athleticism at his size is pretty rare and should attract plenty of interest in the draft, but my concern with him is the missed tackles and the impact he can have in coverage. I think the tackle concerns can be cleaned up with some better technique, but the coverage is still raw and needs time to develop. From Washington’s point of view, I’d think Collins at 19 is probably a little rich for me, but he’ll likely be off the board by the time they pick in the second round. He’s someone that will fit in that 25-40 pick range and could be a solid option for Washington if the team decides to trade back from 19.

 

On Jamin Davis:  His upside is clear to see and he fits the mold of a modern NFL linebacker, with great size and athletic ability to hold up against the run while also being able to play coverage. Davis’ zone coverage ability fits well with what Washington asked of its linebackers last year and the potential is there for him to get even better. His ideal spot would be the vacant Will (weak side) linebacker spot that Kevin Pierre-Louis played last season, which could make him an option for Washington as early as the 19th overall pick.

 

 

Mark Bullock10 hr ago

 

I think I like Davis most for what this defense was last year. He’s got the zone coverage ability to play well in their Cover-3 and Cover-4 schemes, while also being solid in the run game from the Will linebacker position, the spot vacated by Kevin Pierre-Louis...Collins is the lesser player of the 3...

Edited April 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mudhog]

4 hours ago, jsharrin55 said:

Random question, since I've seen a few things about Cosmi at 51.

 

If we take Darrisaw at 19 and Cosmi is sitting at 51 as our big board BPA, do you take him?

If we got Darrisaw at 19, I would wait until our early 3rd to grab a OG. Late 2nd to end of 3rd seems to be the sweet spot. My favorite is Meinerz. He's a beast who can line up at OC or OG. But I see your point. You would have a stout line for many years. One of my best mocks ever does something similar:

 
#28 Jamin Davis LB

#60 Dillon Radunz OT
#69 Spencer Brown OT
#77 Nico Collins WR

#81 Tommy Tremble TE
#82 Paulson Adebo CB
#111 Andre Cisco FS
#159 Chubba Hubbard RB
#163 Feliepe Franks QB
#255 Shane Buechele QB

Spencer Brown was the BPA at #69 so I took him. He's listed as RT but could play IOL or LT. My only problem with trying to grab Darrisaw and Cosmi is that we use up too much capital on the OL while other positions will suffer. 
 

It took a lot of tries to hit this combination of trades and players. In real life we only get one shot at it. Luckily, for the WFT, it won't be me drafting 

[CommanderInTheRye]

Reyes aka “The Chilean Sea Bass-tard” sounds very mature, decisive and confident.

 

It also doesn’t hurt that he always wanted to be here. 

 

(At aprx 32:51 sec. mark in video below)

Reyes: (on his options to play for other teams) My agent...had communication with...15 to 20 other teams. My phone was blowing up. We were going to schedule 7 other visits. We had two already scheduled with Atlanta and with Kansas City... but my first priority was Washington... it was the place where I wanted to play I wanted to go from day one.  I told her if they show interest...that’s the place I want to go first...so once I came here we were able to figure out all the terms of the contract and it just felt right. It felt right once I walked into the building...I cancelled every other trip that I had and I signed as soon as I could...”

 

 

Should be an interesting summer...

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves