FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Then you haven't been paying attention.  Either you honestly don't know because you haven't been paying attention or you're being intentionally obtuse.  It's been thoroughly discussed.

No that's the problem. I have been paying attention. I heard him challenge Haskins, say Haskins responded to the challenge, named him the starter before the season, named him a team captain, say he supported him, then bench him. Rivera hasn't said it was because of not "showing up early" or "not reading defenses" or "bragging about stats" or a lot of the rumors so I'm not saying whetehr that's why or not. I don't know. Maybe you're a mind reader and you can tell me about it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I don't know what Rivera's problem with Haskins is. But the optics of it do not look good from my perspective. If you're listening to Sheehan's show today, did you hear his first caller about how Rivera's not the guy to build a franchise. He LUCKED into Cam. He didn't develop Cam. Cam came out as a dual threat QB. All he did was have a OC who was smart enough to let him play the ball he know how to play. That's not what RIvera's willing to do with Haskins though. We see that Haskins can perform well with a quick read offense and guess what, it helps our OL when he gets rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or less. But Keim says that OCs are looking at the yards that should be there instead of what we actually got (this from Saunders and not Rivera). 

 

 

 

The problems with Haskins was mentioned in the soup of what Keim said.  He's expounded on it before.  You can act all day long like its a mystery but Rivera has commented that he's seen enough.  And Keim among others have said they wanted him to work harder among other things.  

 

As for maybe Rivera lucked into success.  I can't get over you unlimited patience and constant defense of Bruce Allen for years.  Post after post after post, giving him the benefit of the doubt on just about everything and you were willing to take on anyone to defend him. 

 

Here you are going the opposite route with the new regime.   Bruce > Ron?  I have to ask because I just figured part of your defense over so long for everything Bruce came off that you maybe were just pro status quo whatever that was.  But I gather it was more specific than that.  You said in a post a little while ago it was just about you questioning Shanny but nope from what I recall it went way beyoind that, you defending him and lauded him for just about the whole Jay tenure.

 

You gave Bruce about 10 years.  I'd give Rivera more than 5 games. 

[KDawg]

I’m going to move away from this thread while it’s in the direction it’s in. If anyone wants to talk football, feel free to tag me. I’d love to discuss that aspect of this situation. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

No that's the problem. I have been paying attention. I heard him challenge Haskins, say Haskins responded to the challenge, named him the starter before the season, named him a team captain, say he supported him, then bench him. Rivera hasn't said it was because of not "showing up early" or "not reading defenses" or "bragging about stats" or a lot of the rumors so I'm not saying whetehr that's why or not. I don't know. Maybe you're a mind reader and you can tell me about it. 

Rivera also said he was trying to build confidence in both Dwayne and the team by talking him up. Rivera is not going to come out and say that it's for not showing up early, bragging about stats or any of that other crap.  I'd bet everything I own that those leaks aren't even coming from Rivera.  That can be coming from one of a number of different places.

[Koolblue13]

I didn't want Haskins benched and wanted to see more of him. I defended him and his awful play.

 

Haskins got benched for his awful play and childish demeanor and terrible study and work habits. I defended his benching.

 

Now I'd like to see him traded and I still think he will have a good season or two in his career a few years down the line on probably his 3rd or 4rth team.

 

Oh well, QBs are difficult to guess.

 

Put Smith in until we win the division and go to the playoffs or his other leg falls off and we have to play Allen. 

 

I'm sick of losing too. I can't imagine being in that locker room after the first week.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

No that's the problem. I have been paying attention. I heard him challenge Haskins, say Haskins responded to the challenge, named him the starter before the season, named him a team captain, say he supported him, then bench him. Rivera hasn't said it was because of not "showing up early" or "not reading defenses" or "bragging about stats" or a lot of the rumors so I'm not saying whetehr that's why or not. I don't know. Maybe you're a mind reader and you can tell me about it. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/ron-rivera-washington-offensive-coaches-met-dwayne-haskins-week-clear-air

 

Quote

“I have to look at that and be honest," Rivera said of Haskins earlier this week. "I like a lot of the things I have seen, but there are some things that truly concern me, growth being the biggest one.”

 

Quote

“Right now, I’m at the position where we have to see the growth,” the coach said. “If we never play him, he never grows, but there is a point where you say, ‘OK, maybe taking a step back and watching is the best thing for you now.’ We will see.”

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/ron-rivera-explains-dwayne-haskins-got-every-chance-starting-qb

 

Quote

Rivera explained that Haskins got all work with the first-team offense going all the way back to late July and the team did not see the type of growth it wanted. 

"It’s interesting because we went through training camp and gave him every rep with the [first team] in terms of trying to develop him and get him ready to go. Through the four games we didn’t see what we were looking for. I made the decision to go forward with Kyle [Allen] and Alex [Smith]," the coach said. 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Keep ignoring that this is an issue in this league. You can't be a mediocre Black starting QB in this league. You've either got to be on Deshaun Watson's level of greatness or you're getting replaced. 

 

I will not ignore the issue in the league.  I will point out that it has nothing to do with Dwayne Haskins or his benching.  It boils down to one man: Daniel Snyder.  He insisted on drafting Haskins at #15 (or even trading up to get him) and his football staff did not want to take him there (if at all).  So Haskins comes in to a lame duck staff who didn't want to draft him, and then the next year a new coaching staff comes in who didn't draft him.  It has nothing to do with the color of his skin.  It has everything to do with the owner of this franchise.  

[Thinking Skins]

8 minutes ago, Llevron said:

There is always a race thing with anything in this country. Unconscious bias is a thing rather you believe it in or not. And so is very conscious bias. 

 

Fact is though, a lot of people don't believe it. AND it has nothing to do with the Washington Football Team at the moment so I find it to be a useless - and risky - tangent for us to dive into. Double so because no one can say that Haskins has really been a victim of it since hes has been in the NFL. Yes, there have been some things. When the (black) commentator called him a running QB right after the draft. Obvious. People were calling him dumb before he even took a snap and thats always been a sore point in our community. But ultimately it haven't affected his opportunity one provable bit here.

 

So I think we should let this one drop, at least in the Haskins thread. Cause without a doubt you are going to get some jerk off coming in here saying something he shouldn't if we keep this up. Its happens 100% of the time. Dont invite it. 

 

At the same time, if you wanna talk about this stuff we can do so in the tailgate and I will be happy to school your asses on this ****, too. I actually know stuff about that subject matter. Unlike football lol. 

I feel this way too. I hate bringing these into these threads, whether its Haskins, RG3, Campbell, McNabb, or whoever, but the points sometimes need to be made. Like people not realizing that they're (maybe unknowingly) repeating some of the same arguments that have historically been said against Black QBs. And it hurts even more when it comes from Anonymous sources. Feinstein went off on twitter about this. Brian Mitchell did too saying that many times they're just the reporter's own hunch. 

 

But I'm fine taking this to tailgate or completely off the forum. People don't understand how much stress it is to talk about Race in America from my point of view. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

10 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

And I don't see why that has to do with whether he's white or black. There have been plenty of white QBs who have busted because they had ****ty work ethic and preparation habits. 

 

 

Yes I am uncomfortable with race being introduced as well. That's a cop out, as you say white QBs have been treated the same or worse.  Again Lynch was pulled after only 4 starts and Denver fans are not rallying to his defense the way some Washington fans are with Dwayne. 

 

This is not  racial issue, this is a performance and work ethic issue.  

[DJHJR86]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/26/dwayne-haskins-redskins-first-round-draft-party-marketing-company-brand

 

I have no idea how I missed this story, but man this is really something else.  

[SprintBomb]

10 hours ago, redskins59 said:

 

I don't believe the work ethic and preparation argument, because these are subjective terms.   Furthermore, stereotypes about black QB's come into play here. 

Why not let him play and see if he improves?  You can look at stuff like quarterback ratings, PFF score, etc, and measure the improvement (or lack of improvement).

For the record, he showed improvement last year in terms of these measurements.

If he doesn't show improvement, you draft another QB.  Simple as that. 

 

It's not subjective. Either a head coach sees the work ethic and preparation expected from his players or he doesn't see it.  Bad play on Sundays doesn't drop you from starter to inactive in one week. This sounds like practice, preparation and possibly attitude issues and I would believe an experienced head coach like Ron over whatever Haskins thinks happened

[Califan007 The Constipated]

@KDawg --

 

 

[spjunkies]

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Yes I am uncomfortable with race being introduced as well. That's a cop out, as you say white QBs have been treated the same or worse.  Again Lynch was pulled after only 4 starts and Denver fans are not rallying to his defense the way some Washington fans are with Dwayne. 

 

This is not  racial issue, this is a performance and work ethic issue.  

 

Difference is Denver was pretty fresh off of a SB victory so their front office and coaches had a bit more leeway. We've been playing this QB game for 30 freaking years. It's pretty clear that none of the clowns on our current roster are worth a damn, I'd just prefer to see the guy with the most upside even though we're going down in flames either way. 

[Llevron]

12 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I feel this way too. I hate bringing these into these threads, whether its Haskins, RG3, Campbell, McNabb, or whoever, but the points sometimes need to be made. Like people not realizing that they're (maybe unknowingly) repeating some of the same arguments that have historically been said against Black QBs. And it hurts even more when it comes from Anonymous sources. Feinstein went off on twitter about this. Brian Mitchell did too saying that many times they're just the reporter's own hunch. 

 

But I'm fine taking this to tailgate or completely off the forum. People don't understand how much stress it is to talk about Race in America from my point of view. 

 

I feel you. But the honest truth is that we are not going to change anyone's mind about racial biases when discussing Dwayne Haskins. At best you are going to get a agreement to disagree. You and I both know that this is not the forum to teach anyone about this kind of stuff in any meaningful way. But I do appreciate you homie its a hard thing to see and feel like you cant discuss because... reasons. Trust me, I feel you.  Im serious about talking about it in the tailgate though if you want. Start a topic if you feel the need ill help keep the convo going. It may even be interesting to follow Haskins career in particular just to see how this all plays out. 

 

Edit and now back to @KDawg and @Skinsinparadise talking about **** I can barely understand. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/26/dwayne-haskins-redskins-first-round-draft-party-marketing-company-brand

 

I have no idea how I missed this story, but man this is really something else.  

 

Quote

People from all phases of Dwayne’s life showed up. Cousins flew in from Minnesota and drove up from Georgia,

 

Made me laugh.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

Made me laugh.

 

I woulda charged his ass double lmao 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/26/dwayne-haskins-redskins-first-round-draft-party-marketing-company-brand

 

I have no idea how I missed this story, but man this is really something else.  

 

Yeah I remember reading that; it didn't give me a great feeling. It's like...dude, maybe you should work on actually becoming a good NFL QB before starting to market yourself as one? Not that it would be impossible to do both at the same time, but I guess I'd just prefer substance first and glitz later...especially when it comes to such a difficult position to play at the highest level.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

(*ahem*)...In terms of the footsball:

 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

Dwayne Jr. shoots a text to well-connected ESPN analyst Louis Riddick, who had asked him to text him when he knew where he was going. Redskins. Riddick sends back a congrats text, triggering the iPhone’s colorful confetti response.

 

Now we know why Riddick was insistent that Gruden set up Haskins for "failure".

 

https://www.radio.com/thefandc/louis-riddick-jay-gruden-dwayne-haskins-failure

 

Weird how Anthony Lynn wasn't accused of setting Justin Herbert up for failure though...

[Thinking Skins]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for maybe Rivera lucked into success.  I can't get over you unlimited patience and constant defense of Bruce Allen for years.  Post after post after post, giving him the benefit of the doubt on just about everything and you were willing to take on anyone to defend him. 

 

Here you are going the opposite route with the new regime.   Bruce > Ron?  I have to ask because I just figured part of your defense over so long for everything Bruce came off that you maybe were just pro status quo whatever that was.  But I gather it was more specific than that.  You said in a post a little while ago it was just about you questioning Shanny but nope from what I recall it went way beyoind that, you defending him and lauded him for just about the whole Jay tenure.

 

For 10 years I prayed for this franchise to hire a GM and judge him as a GM. Vinny's years weren't as a GM and he too often went for FAs over the draft. We had way too many drafts with 5 or fewer picks. I didn't like the strategy. 

 

Bruce came in and I saw an immediate change in philosophy. We would normally have 8-10 person drafts and one or two big free agent signings a year. I wanted fewer free agent signings but I liked that philosophy more than others. There were Bruce leaks and all kinds of other things that I didn't agree with. People were calling for a GM after Mike left and Bruce brought in Scot but I argued then that the drafts in between Mike and Scot were good drafts (Breeland, Long, Moses Crowder come to mind). They could have been better drafts but I thought they were good. I thought he got way too much blame for not being a "football person". Every mistake of Shanny seems to be put against Bruce - the Mcnabb trade, the RG3 trade, the falling out with RG3 (though that goes more to Dan). 

 

Now part of me not believing the rumors meant I didn't believe that we wouldn't take picks for Trent or Cousins. Finding out the truth behind these things kinda made me sick and I don't know where to draw the line between where I like Allen, can tolerate him, vs don't like him. Its definitely not clear cut like I didn't like Vinny. But I was also pro Jay (with the exception of how he treated RG3) until he lost Cousins. At this time I was anti the Smith trade and anti the McCoy project. But I liked the type of QB Smith was because I think superstar QBs are rare and thought if we could build our team around. But if you remember I was pro AJ McCarren or Nick Mullens or CJ Beathard or a number of other backups who I wanted to give playing time. 

 

One thing about Bruce is that he never talked so we couldn't really point out contradictions in his statements the way we can with Ron. People can try to explain them but they're not making sense to me. But that's in the past. Maybe I was naive for liking Bruce and maybe i'm naive for not liking the way Ron's treating Haskins. Thats me as a fan. I'm seeing things I don't like and I'm forming opinions based on what I want, and what I see, or even what I think i see. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

One thing about Bruce is that he never talked so we couldn't really point out contradictions in his statements the way we can with Ron. People can try to explain them but they're not making sense to me. But that's in the past. Maybe I was naive for liking Bruce and maybe i'm naive for not liking the way Ron's treating Haskins. Thats me as a fan. I'm seeing things I don't like and I'm forming opinions based on what I want, and what I see, or even what I think i see. 

 

Bruce did talk on occasion and often made a fool of himself when doing it.  As for you saying maybe you were naive for liking Bruce?   I told you in one of our many exchanges that Bruce will ultimately be mocked just as much as Vinny. And indeed that has happened and more some.   He along with Dan is the prime reason IMO why this roster is what it is.  And prime reason why so many fans checked out over the years -- the incompetence, the smugness, and the sleaze.

 

Rivera is trying to change the culture brought on by your dude.  I don't fault people for being wrong about an issue.  I've been wrong, too.  But I'd figure you above all would be rally around a dude actually known for his integrity who is trying to fix all the crap from the previous adminstration. 

[Thinking Skins]

26 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Quote

“I have to look at that and be honest," Rivera said of Haskins earlier this week. "I like a lot of the things I have seen, but there are some things that truly concern me, growth being the biggest one.”

 

Quote

“Right now, I’m at the position where we have to see the growth,” the coach said. “If we never play him, he never grows, but there is a point where you say, ‘OK, maybe taking a step back and watching is the best thing for you now.’ We will see.”

Those are more in line with what Turner said and I'll admit that both Turner's press conferences and JDR's conferences have been more tolerable than Rivera's. Turner said that Ron's making the same mistakes and didn't want him to keep practicing bad habits, and that I can understand. If that is the reason for the benching then its not the end of it all. 

 

But the way Rivera made it a 52 vs 1 thing makes it hard to support Rivera in this because he threw him under the bus. We'll see how this plays out. 

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rivera is trying to change the culture brought on by your dude.  I don't fault people for being wrong about an issue.  I've been wrong, too.  But I'd figure you above all would be rally around a dude actually known for his integrity who is trying to fix all the crap from the previous adminstration. 

I can't rally behind him throwing a player under the bus. That's not on the same level as Jay did RG3, but its not cool either. Whatever Haskins immaturies are, Ron's a 50+ year old man who is supposed to be a players coach who players love. But this is something that just reaks of a slimy culture. And now we have leaks. Are those coming from Ron? I don't want to say yes but unlike Bruce and Scot situation (I didn't see how Cooley leaking out that Scot was still drinking or whatever he said helped Bruce), I can see this helping Ron's narrative. 

 

We will see. I'm not anti-Ron right now, but he has made a number of questionable moves that I wonder about. Was Sean Davis that bad? What's going on with Holcomb? How much could we use AP? Why did we go after Cooper if we weren't going to upgrade other positions on offense? We'll see. 

[philibusters]

I wasn't for the benching, but Ron has some much more information than me.  As long as Ron is willing to go back to Haskins if Allen struggles I guess I am okay with the benching.  Rivera has to pound into Haskins head, the NFL is tough league, and you have to prepare like a champ to be successful.

 

I think Haskins has the talent to succeed, but he is not an overwhelming talent.   Perhaps he needed a wake up call.   That said I think Haskins is a better thrower than both Justin Fields and Trey Lance.  I am hoping Haskins get one more shot and this serves as the wake up call he needed.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

44 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

No that's the problem. I have been paying attention. I heard him challenge Haskins, say Haskins responded to the challenge, named him the starter before the season, named him a team captain, say he supported him, then bench him. Rivera hasn't said it was because of not "showing up early" or "not reading defenses" or "bragging about stats" or a lot of the rumors so I'm not saying whetehr that's why or not. I don't know. Maybe you're a mind reader and you can tell me about it. 

Maybe Haskins did respond to the challenge. Its possible to respond appropriately but still fail. Perhaps he responded as asked but simply isn't good enough. Its quite obvious he isn't good enough. Whether that is effort, attitude, or just not good enough doesn't really matter.  If he isn't good enough, with a pouty ego, then he is done in the league. If its not an attitude, effort thing, then maybe in 3-4 years he could be a decent backup.