method man Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Yep. A 2nd is a pipe dream. Haskins doesn't have the reputation that Rosen had. I'd day a 4th that can become a 3rd is the best case. Likely looking at a 5th. I wouldn't mind a 5th or 6th this year and a 4th in 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said: Then we hear the rumors about his work ethic and his immaturity and so much other stuff and that's what I hate to hear. Not because of it being true / false, but because where does it come from. One person I bet its not coming from is Haskins, so its indicative of a culture here that hasn't changed. And when it is paired with what Haskins said last Wed, its like he's trying to just crush this guy more and more. I believe them to be true considering that stuff has been said from other quarters outside of the WFT. And I posted that stuff here. I do agree about keeping it in house. And somehow I doubt that Rivera himself is leaking it or encouraging them to leak it. I recall one beat guy saying last year a source he had at the FO told them Haskins doesn't work very hard. It could be that dude as the source still whomever that is. The reason why I keep bringing up Bruce to you is if the leaks under Bruce didn't bother you at least from the context of you continually having his back. And you clearly didn't blame him for the stuff at the time judging by your posts. So why blame Ron? We don't know who leaked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oraphus Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 No one tanked Haskins value more that Haskins.. They guy so far has shown great immaturity and lack of social awareness along with limited football intelligence. Now saying that I think a 3rd could be reasonable value for a reclamation project.. hell Rosen got a 2nd and a 5th so Haskins should be in the same boat value wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 35 minutes ago, profusion said: A trade during the season depends on whether any other team suddenly needs a new QB. A team down to its third QB might have to pony up more value for a guy like Haskins. In the off-season, it'd be more unlikely we'd get top value for him. This is backwards imo. Nobody is trading for him to play now, he’ll be entering a new system in October after publicly struggling with this one. He’s not going to be worth more now because someone’s desperate imo, unless they really want to lose even worse. He’s hypothetically worth more to someone when they can have him all offseason learning their system—but if it was an established coaching staff that wanted him they could get him in early and start that process now. So it’s hard to say, but I definitely don’t agree that he’d ever be worth more due to injuries a team has right now mid-season—you don’t want him on the field right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: The reason why I keep bring up Bruce to you is if the leaks under Bruce didn't bother you at least from the context of you having his back. And you clearly didn't blame him for the stuff at the time judging by your posts. So why blame Ron? We don't know who leaked it. Because with Bruce it didn't fit the narrative. Bruce hated the media and the media hated Bruce. I can't find one person in the media minus maybe Chris Cooley and Deangelo Hall who spoke even at an even tone about Bruce. So if he was the source, why weren't they somewhat speaking positively of their sources, the way Russell always spoke so positively about Haslett and the way Keim always speaks positively about people who will talk to him in the locker rooms. I blame Ron because its bigger than the leaks themselves. Ron publically spoke against Haskins. He said it was 1 vs 52, that 1 man was holding back 52 other men. That's Ron throwing Haskins under the bus, not a leak not a rumor, not an agent, a press conference. Since then Ron has said mostly the right things but like I said I have to caution it because either Ron's doing the leaking which I will admit would be kinda hypocritial to say are coming from Ron but the fact that these leaks that are coming out - only leaks about Haskins. No leaks about his lack of TOs, no leaks about Apke playing, no leaks about Wes Martin almost getting Smith hurt again, no leaks about Turner's simple offensive system, etc. Plus, as Keim pointed out yesterday, normally these leaks come from open locker rooms when they can talk to players off the record. Who's there right now? I guess they could make phone calls, but the whole situation stinks to high hell when you sit down and analyze it. And the kicker is that Ron was supposed to be the culture guy. Where is AP to sit and talk to him about this. Oh yeah, we cut AP because he didn't fit the HS Offense we're running. I can't place blame on anybody but I don't like it. Like I said I don't really fault Ron for anything right now other than his press conference last Wednesday. The things he said since then have been consistent and not about trying to trash Haskins. We'll see how it works out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 30 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Pssssh, if we get a second for Dwayne - I'll drive him to the airport. Everyone knows that this is how our organization thinks(not valuing our players) so we likely won't. We seem to wait to bury players value before trading them. A player like Rosen got a 2nd. Tunsil got a 1st. We get crumbs for players in similar situations because we like to show our hand spiting our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Regarding the leaks, who is it reported that they are coming from? Brian Mitchell is saying he's hearing who it is and the person leaking isn't playing well, but do we have any "rumors" of this? Is it on twitter right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, IrepDC said: Everyone knows that this is how our organization thinks(not valuing our players) so we likely won't. We seem to wait to bury players value before trading them. A player like Rosen got a 2nd. Tunsil got a 1st. We get crumbs for players in similar situations because we like to show our hand spiting our players. Or Dwayne's just not very good and his 'potential' isn't deemed high enough to warrant giving up draft capital and the time required to develop him. I agree with you in the general sense that this franchise has been a dumpster fire that gets in it's own way. I don't subscribe to Dwayne's lack of value being more about the organization than it is him though. If not for Washington making him a 1st rounder, he wasn't going in the first round to begin with. Since that time, he hasn't put a lot of good stuff on tape and still appears to be a major project. Major projects can be found every year without giving up draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: Because with Bruce it didn't fit the narrative. Bruce hated the media and the media hated Bruce. I can't find one person in the media minus maybe Chris Cooley and Deangelo Hall who spoke even at an even tone about Bruce. you don't have to love the media to leak something. And you can always have someone do it for you. 23 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: I blame Ron because its bigger than the leaks themselves. Ron publically spoke against Haskins. He said it was 1 vs 52, that 1 man was holding back 52 other men. That's Ron throwing Haskins under the bus, not a leak not a rumor, not an agent, a press conference. He said in that same context, he has an NFL arm, he's had an unfair off season, and wants someone who is more familar with the system right now. The context he gave for the benching was plenty nice enough. Haskins' agent making that comment about him having an unfair shake -- I forgot your position on this. What that cool? or you didn't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Amazingly, even Bomani Jones gets the main difference between Jones and Haskins...those who drafted Jones are still within the organization. Haskins, just like Rosen, does not have the same organization who drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Teams use advanced metrics to analyze players these days. Haskins is the absolute worst in many. QBR he's almost 10 pts worse than 2nd worst. So even though his value might be a little hurt by the rumors, make no mistake, his play on the field and the tape showing his lack of ability to make plays is hurting him the most. As a coach, why would you want to take a risk on a qb that has the worst qbr two years in a row and has two coaching staffs questioning his ability to run their offense. People keep bringing up Daniel Jones. Jones actually has tape on him having games that makes him look like Aaron Rodgers. Haskins has nothing like that, just 2 or 3 game manager type games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Or Dwayne's just not very good and his 'potential' isn't deemed high enough to warrant giving up draft capital and the time required to develop him. I agree with you in the general sense that this franchise has been a dumpster fire that gets in it's own way. I don't subscribe to Dwayne's lack of value being more about the organization than it is him though. If not for Washington making him a 1st rounder, he wasn't going in the first round to begin with. Since that time, he hasn't put a lot of good stuff on tape and still appears to be a major project. Major projects can be found every year without giving up draft picks. You're really low and Haskins and thats fair, but you should read reports from other regions about him. The consensus isn't what you think it is outside of DC, although, like I said, we will still get fleeced because our standards are low. Notice how in NE when a player loses favor, you will hear bare minimum if anything about it, and they'll get traded for max value while the new team gets to find out whatever issue NE had. We need to learn to do this as the way we bury our players is tasteless and a part of the loser culture here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profusion Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 31 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: This is backwards imo. Nobody is trading for him to play now, he’ll be entering a new system in October after publicly struggling with this one. He’s not going to be worth more now because someone’s desperate imo, unless they really want to lose even worse. He’s hypothetically worth more to someone when they can have him all offseason learning their system—but if it was an established coaching staff that wanted him they could get him in early and start that process now. So it’s hard to say, but I definitely don’t agree that he’d ever be worth more due to injuries a team has right now mid-season—you don’t want him on the field right now. I agree, the more I think about it. The team that trades for him will need to have an established starter with a year or two left on his deal. This would allow them to sit Haskins for a couple years until he (hopefully) is ready. That trade probably happens on or near draft day. I don't agree with others that Haskins replicates what teams can usually get after the third round. Most of those guys are going to be try-hards rather than high-ceiling guys who just need some slow cooking to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, httr2020dynasty said: Jones actually has tape on him having games that makes him look like Aaron Rodgers While I think Aaron Rodgers is quite a stretch, I get where you are coming from. I brought this up last night, about Haskins playing 11 games and not once in a win or a loss did he ever look like a guy that you can feel confident is going to be good down the road. Daniel Jones has shown several flashes of being a playmaker. So naturally, you're going to have some believers that will want to believe the turnovers can be fixed and stick with him a little longer. Haskins is missing those playmaker plays to buy him more time - he's just kind of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said: Haskins' agent making that comment about him having an unfair shake -- I forgot your position on this. What that cool? or you didn't like it. I didn't find out about that until much later. KDawg was asking me about how i felt or how I'd react to it, and I forget exactly what I said but I know I was saying that the agent doesn't tweet only at Haskins permission. What he said sucks for the offensive players especially the limited weapons on offense but thats the kind of thing that he needs to apologize to the team for, heck maybe be benched / suspended for a game. But this level has been just extra. And the truth of it is that I've been saying all along that this is a young team. I think we have weapons but they're young and they're making young mistakes, like dropped balls, not going out of bounds, not making the right reads, not blocking the right guy, not running routes deep enough, not always setting feet, not putting enough air under the ball, dropping punts, dropping interceptions, etc. His agent's tweet should have been better worded or not said at all (unless in a private setting) but its the same stuff we've been discussing all offseason. Heck Ron said that the offense won't be installed until 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, IrepDC said: You're really low and Haskins and thats fair, but you should read reports from other regions about him. The consensus isn't what you think it is outside of DC, although, like I said, we will still get fleeced because our standards are low. I haven't always been really low on Haskins and wasn't calling for him to get benched so early, so it's not like I'm some Anti-Haskins guy. I just haven't seen anything out of him that leads me to believe he's going to be a franchise quarterback. Very few positive wow moments, too many negative wow moments. I've seen plenty out there about Haskins and I'm well aware that many in the media feel he received a raw deal. I'm thinking more from the perspective of a coach/GM than someone in the media. If I'm a coach/GM have I seen enough positive from Haskins to believe he's worth me giving up a decent draft pick and having to majorly invest in his development and give him time? I just don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: While I think Aaron Rodgers is quite a stretch, I get where you are coming from. I brought this up last night, about Haskins playing 11 games and not once in a win or a loss did he ever look like a guy that you can feel confident is going to be good down the road. Daniel Jones has shown several flashes of being a playmaker. So naturally, you're going to have some believers that will want to believe the turnovers can be fixed and stick with him a little longer. Haskins is missing those playmaker plays to buy him more time - he's just kind of there. Rodgers might have been a little hyperbole :). But the game against us alone last year is enough game tape for the Giants to believe they have something more than Haskins, haha. Jones absolutely stinks this year, but he did enough last year for the Giants to give him a longer leash. 24 tds in 12 games is impressive for a rookie no matter how many fumbles they have. I agree with you though, Haskins just doesn't have anything as a starter that would make a team think he has that much potential. Even the Baltimore game where his basic numbers were good, he had a terrible qbr, was last in air yards over 5 yards, had trouble completing anything over 10 yards until garbage time. Much more bad than good and nothing that you can kind of say, "I can work with this and make him a franchise qb". At best someone might pick him up as a potential career 2nd stringer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 this reminds me why I hate the NY Giants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 4 hours ago, spjunkies said: Difference is Denver was pretty fresh off of a SB victory so their front office and coaches had a bit more leeway. We've been playing this QB game for 30 freaking years. It's pretty clear that none of the clowns on our current roster are worth a damn, I'd just prefer to see the guy with the most upside even though we're going down in flames either way. Lynch was benched before the 2018 season, 3 years after they won the SB. By then their Head Coach was an assistant in Minnesota. 3 years after we won the Super Bowl we had cut the Super Bowl MVP and nobody complained at this level when Ryp was released. The team went through the likes of Heath Shuler, John Friez and Gus Frerrotte. Again nobody complained at this level when Heath Shuler, with 18 career starts, was replaced for poor play. And none of these players have the rep for not putting in the work, this label has followed Dwayne throughout his career with multiple coaching staffs. So we are left with the racial component someone brought up earlier. Fans claiming this is any form of racial discrimination, which callers on radio shows are claiming, are being unfair. Pro sports is about as race neutral when it comes to the players (not executives) that we have. If you can play you can play, if you can't then it's next man up and there is nothing unfair about that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 This is from the comments section on HogsHaven. Just now, Thinking Skins said: This is from the comments section on HogsHaven. Avatar for DaveButz'sHelmet 2) The recent stories about Dwayne Haskins being lazy have been repeated everywhere but actually seem to come a piece by single journalist and his anonymous source. That article also had an assertion that veteran team-mate had criticized Haskins, but again it appears that may have come through that anonymous source. The claims of that anonymous source have spread from media organization to organization as they have reported the WaPo article and that has created an impression of a solidly sourced and verified statement of truth, Haskins is lazy. Now he might be lazy, but that take came from one source and no one but Len Campbell has got any idea who that was or what agenda he might have. So whilst I agree Ron Rivera's messaging and tenure has been all over the place, it's also being fed into a sports media with minimal integrity and standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, Skinsinparadise said: this reminds me why I hate the NY Giants I think this game will be important for Ron. If we win it, the east is wide open and we aren't among the worst 4-5 teams in the nfl. I'm pretty excited for it because it's a good benchmark on where we are at. Plus hopefully Kyle can stay healthy and finish a complete game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I haven't always been really low on Haskins and wasn't calling for him to get benched so early, so it's not like I'm some Anti-Haskins guy. I just haven't seen anything out of him that leads me to believe he's going to be a franchise quarterback. Very few positive wow moments, too many negative wow moments. I've seen plenty out there about Haskins and I'm well aware that many in the media feel he received a raw deal. I'm thinking more from the perspective of a coach/GM than someone in the media. If I'm a coach/GM have I seen enough positive from Haskins to believe he's worth me giving up a decent draft pick and having to majorly invest in his development and give him time? I just don't see it. If I'm a GM, I'd easily throw a mid-late round pick at our clueless organization for a young QB with the arm talent and potential Haskins has. Whether you think he can get there or not, his ceiling is still high, he's and on a cheap deal, and as you know, some analysts (and likely GMs) think that our dysfunctional organization was more to blame in how his grooming failed here. The 3 HCs, 3 offenses, and weak surrounding talent in less than 2 seasons is factored in by reasonable people, I assure you. If I have a stable locker room and great offensive coaching, I'd take that chance that I can do a better job with him than the WFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, IrepDC said: If I'm a GM, I'd easily throw a mid-late round pick at our clueless organization for a young QB with the arm talent and potential Haskins has. Whether you think he can get there or not, his ceiling is still high, he's and on a cheap deal, and as you know, some analysts (and likely GMs) think that our dysfunctional organization was more to blame in how his grooming failed here. The 3 HCs, 3 offenses, and weak surrounding talent in less than 2 seasons is factored in by reasonable people, I assure you. If I have a stable locker room and great offensive coaching, I'd take that chance that I can do a better job with him than the WFT. Teams always think that. I'll ask again, how many first round busts go to great success on a new team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, IrepDC said: If I'm a GM, I'd easily throw a mid-late round pick at our clueless organization for a young QB with the arm talent and potential Haskins has. Whether you think he can get there or not, his ceiling is still high, he's and on a cheap deal, and as you know, some analysts (and likely GMs) think that our dysfunctional organization was more to blame in how his grooming failed here. The 3 HCs, 3 offenses, and weak surrounding talent in less than 2 seasons is factored in by reasonable people, I assure you. If I have a stable locker room and great offensive coaching, I'd take that chance that I can do a better job with him than the WFT. Even if you think you can get more out of him than WFT, you can still find a big arm in the draft with your actual draft selections. You’d have to really believe this guy is the goods to trade and develop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, Darrell Green Fan said: Teams always think that. I'll ask again, how many first round busts go to great success on a new team? Ryan Tannehill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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