FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Nobody has confidence that our offense can hang with any of those other offenses, and our defense just gave up 30 or more points in 4 straight games.

 

And if the scenario you just spelled out actually happened, then this whole shebang with Rivera is doomed to fail no matter what.

 

Chances are great that we are absolutely ****ed regardless of what the deal is lol

[Playaction2Sanders]

I don't think it was his play that got him into so much trouble as it was the locker room rumblings about his work ethic and preparation as Smith and Allen were said to have better habits than Haskins and players were noticing that. Couple that with the agents comments alienating his teammates, it might have been a capital sin that you can't come back from. But I hate the idea of drafting another QB because we have so many holes on this team.

[Andre The Giant]

 

 

45 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Herbert looks like a star right now. A physical and mental freak. Chase Young better be an all-timer.

Agreed

[Leonard Washington]

13 minutes ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

I don't think it was his play that got him into so much trouble as it was the locker room rumblings about his work ethic and preparation as Smith and Allen were said to have better habits than Haskins and players were noticing that. Couple that with the agents comments alienating his teammates, it might have been a capital sin that you can't come back from. But I hate the idea of drafting another QB because we have so many holes on this team.

I don’t know if rumors are the typical WFT slander campaign but Haskins post series engagement with the staff didn’t always look like a guy trying to improve.  
 

If anything Smith playing showed that Haskins can operate and with more accurate throws, Haskins could have been more productive.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I think I mentioned how Old Man Callahan's coaching expertise may be missed right now on our OLine...Malpraposic Decomposition (or however it's spelled lol) posted this blurb from an article in the ATN forum:

 

"Look, no one will ever vote for a guard to be MVP, so Wyatt Teller isn't winning this award. But the third-year pro's improvement in his first season under the direction of offensive line coach Bill Callahan is undeniable. Teller has gone from replacement-level guard sharing snaps with Eric Kush in Cleveland last season to one of the NFL's best in a short amount of time, and it's a big reason why the Browns are both 3-1 and own the best rushing offense in the NFL."

 

 

[redskins59]

16 minutes ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

I don't think it was his play that got him into so much trouble as it was the locker room rumblings about his work ethic and preparation as Smith and Allen were said to have better habits than Haskins and players were noticing that. Couple that with the agents comments alienating his teammates, it might have been a capital sin that you can't come back from. But I hate the idea of drafting another QB because we have so many holes on this team.

 

I don't believe the work ethic and preparation argument, because these are subjective terms.   Furthermore, stereotypes about black QB's come into play here. 

Why not let him play and see if he improves?  You can look at stuff like quarterback ratings, PFF score, etc, and measure the improvement (or lack of improvement).

For the record, he showed improvement last year in terms of these measurements.

If he doesn't show improvement, you draft another QB.  Simple as that. 

 

[skins4eva]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

I think I mentioned how Old Man Callahan's coaching expertise may be missed right now on our OLine...Malpraposic Decomposition (or however it's spelled lol) posted this blurb from an article in the ATN forum:

 

"Look, no one will ever vote for a guard to be MVP, so Wyatt Teller isn't winning this award. But the third-year pro's improvement in his first season under the direction of offensive line coach Bill Callahan is undeniable. Teller has gone from replacement-level guard sharing snaps with Eric Kush in Cleveland last season to one of the NFL's best in a short amount of time, and it's a big reason why the Browns are both 3-1 and own the best rushing offense in the NFL."

 

 

callahan is an offensive line genius. He’s a big loss. 

[Nerm]

1 hour ago, redskins59 said:

 So I am starting to conclude that Son of Norv is a bad offensive coordinator.

 

 

 

Fun piece of nepotism/Norv trivia.  Norv got his first NFL Offensive coordinator job by replacing David Shula, the son of coach Don Shula.  Dallas had the last ranked Offense in the league with Shula.  It was a young team, but the starters included 8 players that would become HOF members, all pros, or players who went to multiple pro bowls.  Only their two guards and #2 WR position were not eventually HOF/All pro level players... and they were ranked last in the NFL.

 

Shula was canned for Norv, and the glory years began.

[skins4eva]

1 minute ago, redskins59 said:

 

I don't believe the work ethic and preparation argument, because these are subjective terms.   Furthermore, stereotypes about black QB's come into play here. 

Why not let him play and see if he improves?  You can look at stuff like quarterback ratings, PFF score, etc, and measure the improvement (or lack of improvement).

For the record, he showed improvement last year in terms of these measurements.

If he doesn't show improvement, you draft another QB.  Simple as that. 

 

Everything is subjective to a point. But it’s about a reasonable standard, isn’t it?  If I never studied and never paid attention, you would say objectively that my work ethic is poor, despite “stereotypes” right?  If other members of a team see that the most important guy isn’t putting in the work that undermines everything that Rivera is trying to accomplish and the culture he is trying to create. If they see the owner’s hand picked guy get demoted to the third string, I bet they realize it can happen to anyone and they all better step up their game. 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, redskins59 said:

 

I don't believe the work ethic and preparation argument, because these are subjective terms.   Furthermore, stereotypes about black QB's come into play here. 

Why not let him play and see if he improves?  You can look at stuff like quarterback ratings, PFF score, etc, and measure the improvement (or lack of improvement).

For the record, he showed improvement last year in terms of these measurements.

If he doesn't show improvement, you draft another QB.  Simple as that. 

 

 

I don't think most coaches (especially NFL level ones) would find those terms subjective at all. They've been around QBs with the right preparation and work habits and ones without. In the NFL the guys who end up being great almost always have that crazy commitment, attention to detail, and work ethic. 

 

And I don't see why that has to do with whether he's white or black. There have been plenty of white QBs who have busted because they had ****ty work ethic and preparation habits. 

 

I was for giving Haskins this season, but it is what it is. Rivera apparently had seen enough and there have been enough stories about his work ethic/attitude/maturity for me to guess there's at least some fire behind that smoke. If that's the main driver, then I can understand why Rivera would pull him earlier if he didn't see it improving. 

[Playaction2Sanders]

9 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

 

I don't believe the work ethic and preparation argument, because these are subjective terms.   Furthermore, stereotypes about black QB's come into play here. 

Why not let him play and see if he improves? 

 

 I agree with giving him more time. I wasn't playing the black QB stereotype card, the work ethic issue and preparation issues was coming from his teammates. Not sure where you can play the conspiracy card there.. Not to mention his reaction to everything in the last week plus kinda justifying his lack of maturity. 

[redskins59]

1 minute ago, skins4eva said:

Everything is subjective to a point. But it’s about a reasonable standard, isn’t it?  If I never studied and never paid attention, you would say objectively that my work ethic is poor, despite “stereotypes” right?  If other members of a team see that the most important guy isn’t putting in the work that undermines everything that Rivera is trying to accomplish and the culture he is trying to create. If they see the owner’s hand picked guy get demoted to the third string, I bet they realize it can happen to anyone and they all better step up their game. 

 

The problem here  would be the contradictions:

It was said in the offseason that Haskins was working really hard.

Then when he got benched, all of a sudden he is lazy?

 

Now which one should I believe?  Some people here have suggested that he stopped working hard after he got the QB job handed to him.  Here again, this is pure speculation.

 

Which is why I say, let's rely on objective metrics.

I knew RG3 sucked ass after year 2.  I didn't need to watch anymore. Plus, Cousins was looking good to me  when he started here and there despite the interceptions.

With Haskins, we don't know. Not given much of an opportunity.  He looked good to me last year as the season was ending.  

 

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think most coaches (especially NFL level ones) would find those terms subjective at all. They've been around QBs with the right preparation and work habits and ones without. In the NFL the guys who end up being great almost always have that crazy commitment, attention to detail, and work ethic. 

 

And I don't see why that has to do with whether he's white or black. There have been plenty of white QBs who have busted because they had ****ty work ethic and preparation habits. 

 

I was for giving Haskins this season, but it is what it is. Rivera apparently had seen enough and there have been enough stories about his work ethic/attitude/maturity for me to guess there's at least some fire behind that smoke. If that's the main driver, then I can understand why Rivera would pull him earlier if he didn't see it improving. 

Okay, but don't you agree that black QB's have been portrayed as :

1. Lacking intelligence, and 

2. Being lazy

 

I don't think the coaches are trying to be racist.  This may well be "unconscious".  

 

[redskins59]

11 minutes ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

 I agree with giving him more time. I wasn't playing the black QB stereotype card, the work ethic issue and preparation issues was coming from his teammates. Not sure where you can play the conspiracy card there.. Not to mention his reaction to everything in the last week plus kinda justifying his lack of maturity. 

 

Well, he does have maturity issues.

At the same time, I don't think this would be much of an issue, if, say, he actually starts to look good.  Nobody would care.

 

[Hooper]

The rumors/allegations of Haskins behavior bum me out, and I hate how slow he is in the pocket and how inaccurate he is at times... but it still makes sense to play him unless he's just a massive POS off the field. But I guess we always have to make things as dramatic as possible, no matter who is coaching.

[SprintBomb]

23 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

 

Okay, but don't you agree that black QB's have been portrayed as :

1. Lacking intelligence, and 

2. Being lazy

 

No. Portrayed that way by who?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

So Herbert might fall off a cliff once “defenses get tape on him” or whatever else makes guys feel better that our dude has 0 games on his resume where he slings the rock well enough to make you a believer.  No doubt Herbert is going to struggle as all young QB’s inevitably do.  But just watch the kid play, the throws he makes, etc.  He is going to be good and it’s easy to see that in just a few games.

 

Something we’ve never seen out of Dwayne.  Blame the supporting cast all you want.  But in 11 games, I’ve seen nothing to suggest he’s going to be a player in this league.  Am I wrong?  If so, please remind me of a game where he was slinging it all over the field.  Win or loss, don’t care.  Just a game where he was dealing.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

38 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

 

 

Okay, but don't you agree that black QB's have been portrayed as :

1. Lacking intelligence, and 

2. Being lazy

 

I don't think the coaches are trying to be racist.  This may well be "unconscious".  

 

 

Maybe in the 70s and 80s, but not now.  And Rivera coached a black QB to the Super Bowl, there's nothing "unconscious" about what's going on here.  Did you forget how he coached Cam Newton or did you overlook that because it didn't play into your agenda?

 

Yeah, a minority head coach is "unconsciously" being racist towards a black QB.  Is that really what you're thinking?  

[philibusters]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So Herbert might fall off a cliff once “defenses get tape on him” or whatever else makes guys feel better that our dude has 0 games on his resume where he slings the rock well enough to make you a believer.  No doubt Herbert is going to struggle as all young QB’s inevitably do.  But just watch the kid play, the throws he makes, etc.  He is going to be good and it’s easy to see that in just a few games.

 

Something we’ve never seen out of Dwayne.  Blame the supporting cast all you want.  But in 11 games, I’ve seen nothing to suggest he’s going to be a player in this league.  Am I wrong?  If so, please remind me of a game where he was slinging it all over the field.  Win or loss, don’t care.  Just a game where he was dealing.  

 

He was 19-28 for 261 yards two TD's and no picks against the Eagles last year.

He was 12 for 15 for 133 yards two TD's and no picks against the Giants last year before he got knocked out of the game on the first play of the second half.

 

I thought Haskins showed a lot of promise at the end of last year, which is why his benching is hard to understand.

[Spaceman Spiff]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So Herbert might fall off a cliff once “defenses get tape on him” or whatever else makes guys feel better that our dude has 0 games on his resume where he slings the rock well enough to make you a believer.  No doubt Herbert is going to struggle as all young QB’s inevitably do.  But just watch the kid play, the throws he makes, etc.  He is going to be good and it’s easy to see that in just a few games.

 

Something we’ve never seen out of Dwayne.  Blame the supporting cast all you want.  But in 11 games, I’ve seen nothing to suggest he’s going to be a player in this league.  Am I wrong?  If so, please remind me of a game where he was slinging it all over the field.  Win or loss, don’t care.  Just a game where he was dealing.  

 

Against Philly last year, 19/28 for 261 yards 2 touchdowns and a 121.3 rating.  And the next week against the Giants, 12/15 for 133 yards before exiting with an injury.

 

Those were his last two performances of the year, they gave you something to dream on.  I think we all hoped he could build on those during the offseason and start off the season in a similar fashion.

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

He was 19-28 for 261 yards two TD's and no picks against the Eagles last year.

He was 12 for 15 for 133 yards two TD's and no picks against the Giants last year before he got knocked out of the game on the first play of the second half.

 

I thought Haskins showed a lot of promise at the end of last year, which is why his benching is hard to understand.

 

Well you beat me to it.  But he hasn't built on those performances, he regressed.  

 

 

[Hooper]

2 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

He was 19-28 for 261 yards two TD's and no picks against the Eagles last year.

He was 12 for 15 for 133 yards two TD's and no picks against the Giants last year before he got knocked out of the game on the first play of the second half.

 

I thought Haskins showed a lot of promise at the end of last year, which is why his benching is hard to understand.

 

He has had some nice moments.

 

Nothing like Herbert -- who has him physically (and 95 percent of the league) -- but yeah, I would like to see more too. Hell, worst case trade off between him and Allen. But not playing him at all seems petty, barring DH being a total nightmare off the field. 

[ExoDus84]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

What's your point with this post? I look at those stats and see 4 QBs playing like **** on losing teams.

 

Haskins has the worst QBR in the league but it's ok because....there are other QBs also playing poorly? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I wasn’t saying that every game he’s played is terrible.  Just that I’ve yet to see him

have a game where he looked special. 

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

What's your point with this post? I look at those stats and see 4 QBs playing like **** on losing teams.

 

Haskins has the worst QBR in the league but it's ok because....there are other QBs also playing poorly? 

 

No particular point.  It's up to interpretation.  

 

But I do find it interesting that if you asked people which of those 4 QBs had been benched, 93% of voters would likely be shocked.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Whoa.  HTTRDynasty did it.  I'm convinced I was all wrong about Haskins.  An anonymous choose your own quarterback twitter poll just made me totally re-think how I view Dwayne Haskins.