FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

This will end well...

 

You're going to be right.  And it's depressing to be able to recognize that years out.  But we should already be scouting the draft eligible QBs by October of any season.  Even if we're not in the market for one, they still need to be scouted.

 

I know your thoughts on the matter are largely the same as mine, but even though we've demonstrated over and over and over again that we can't develop the position, I think we still have to try.  And I think it has to be a guy from this draft class in order for the timeline to give this coaching staff any chance of long term success.  I don't think getting a vet to come in and take over the job long term is realistic.  I'm just hoping it's not Lawrence.  I can't stand to see us ruin that kid, he deserves to play for a good organization.

 

The fact that the scouting process is underway right now just hammers home that we needed to hire a good GM, like yesterday.  But Ron's not going to cede any power and Dan Snyder is off doing God knows what to preserve his ownership.  No one is really at the wheel right now.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

Just find it slimy to blame something as serious as cancer on football decisions that you disagree with. Like there's plenty of reasons to bench haskins that he can have without being accused of being unable to perform his job because his cancer. That's wild speculation.

Nobody did that, but making it sound that way is slimy.

[HTTRDynasty]

13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'm just hoping it's not Lawrence.  I can't stand to see us ruin that kid, he deserves to play for a good organization.

 

I guess I'm just more selfish than you are.  I want this organization to find success in spite of itself, and I think the only way that has even a minuscule chance of happening is if we somehow luck into the #1 overall pick and draft Lawrence.  Any other QB we draft is doomed from the start.

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Nobody did that, but making it sound that way is slimy.

 

Well it was basically multiple insinuations that Rivera's cancer was somehow affecting his decision making to the point where it may have to do with why Haskins was benched, not because Haskins was playing poorly or perhaps had some work ethic/attitude/maturity issues. 

 

I didn't think this thread would go in that sort of direction. Yikes, guys. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Why do people keep accepting this lame justification as if it's not completely absurd?  He saw enough to abandon his quarterback after four ****ing games???

 

He's played this situation as stupidly as he possibly could, and it's the stupidest possible justification for it.  And apparently Redskins-land is just as stupid as Rivera thinks we are for accepting this nonsense at face value.

 

What if they didn't already believe that Haskins was a franchise QB based on watching his Ohio State tape?  So their predisposition already existed?  And if so what's wrong with that?   If Kyle Smith didn't grade Haskins as a first round prospect and the scouts in that building likewise felt that way -- then I presume Rivera might have already had a predisposition.  IMO knowing a bit about Rivera, I 100% believe that Haskins intangibles or lack thereof was likely the kicker. 

 

Your predisposition is that Haskins has it cooking and is a franchise QB.  But not everyone saw it the same way as you do -- whether its scouts, NFL teams and even some people on this board.  Haskins had some fans but he wasn't a consensus rock star prospect.  You dismiss all the intangible concerns mentioned about Haskins as likely made up.  But what if they aren't? 

 

Your opinion isn't a fact and neither is mine.  And Rivera isn't known as a kook who is known for character assasination.  The thing always said about Rivera is he's all about integrity and class.   If he has concerns about the intangibles of ANY player, I'll believe him.   His integrity is as established as much as Haskins intangibles are unestablished.   I get the angst about RG3 and carrying that point in a macro way to this.  I shared that angst about RG3 at the time.  But Shanny and Rivera are different cats. 

 

Like @KDawg said, I respect your opinion a lot.  Love your takes on the draft thread.  I am always curious about what you think.  Heck when I don't know about a player, I'll often ask you or @volsmet or @KDawg as to your all opinion.  And I know it will be well thoughtout, good stuff.  But none of us are infalliable.  We have all been wrong.  I can even recall some of the players where we've been wrong about.  As Parcells says the best scouts are wrong 50% of the time.   Me, kdawg and volsmet weren't big Haskins guys before the draft.  I am not saying we are right, and you are wrong.  Who knows.  But Haskins coming off meh to the coaching staff if that's how they feel might not seem crazy to us.  We've all laid out specifically why we didn't love Haskins and in detail.  He's not IMO a sure fire prospect.  And i know at least me and @KDawg among others believe the series of reports going on for more than a year about concerns about the dude's intangibles aren't made up.  They are coming from too many different corners.  Heck i can ignore every WFT source on it and i still got enough to question him on it.   

 

When I read all the reports about Haskins turning the corner as for his work ethic this off season, I bought in.  I'd love to see this dude succeed.  But likewise i believe the recent reports that he's again lacking in that department.  i noticed myself the dude looking happy on the sidelines after multiple loses -- not just the Ravens game.  I actually commented on it at the time on the fly on the game thread when I noticed it.  I also didn't care for his agent's comment.  When some say the dude is immature and his work ethic is questionable -- it doesn't sound crazy to me.  And that's not because I wish that was the case.  Nothing would please me more than having a franchise qB.  But i strongly suspect that Haskins isn't that guy.

 

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Well it was basically multiple insinuations that Rivera's cancer was somehow affecting his decision making to the point where it may have to do with why Haskins was benched, not because Haskins was playing poorly or perhaps had some work ethic/attitude/maturity issues. 

 

I didn't think this thread would go in that sort of direction. Yikes, guys. 

No. Haskins poor play is obviously why he was benched, along with his refusal to watch film and the other **** he is doing to piss people off is why he is getting benched, traded,cut, laughed at, taunted, whatever. 

 

The way things are being handled and RRs behavior, IMO, might be affected by his cancer.

 

Nobody has excused Haskins by mentioning Cancer.

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yikes, guys. 

Indeed 

[redskins59]

54 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

Dwayne Haskins sacrificed for NFL Nepotism of Scott Turner, Norv’s Son

https://deadspin.com/dwayne-haskins-sacrificed-for-nfl-nepotism-of-scott-tur-1845339489?fbclid=IwAR3MbOIH2E78q1XvR4zzVodOvlfkWmHJbbScKc8xa1HSdmJgDdYbEcLzBsA
 

Upon Scott’s hire back in January, before COVID-19 eliminated the preseason, Scott Turner said Haskins has to know the offense even if it’s new. “[Haskins] has to know it like a coach and present that confidence on the field,” Turner said. “That takes work to get that. Guys see when it’s there and when it’s not.”

Turner essentially wants Haskins to “know it like a coach,” when he himself does not “know it like a coordinator.”.....

 

....“Haskins got a raw deal,” says CBS Sports’ Jason La Canfora, citing Haskins’ biggest problem is a lack of coaching advocates, unlike his replacement, Kyle Allen, whose primary credential is that he is “a benefactor (bingo!) in new offensive coordinator Scott Turner,” and “is being kicked to the curb for: The Allen/Turner project.”....

 

....Allen wasn’t drafted at all. However, Scott Turner convinced the Panthers to bring him in.

“Scott went out on a limb and found me and told the people here to bring me here. I’m thankful for that,” Allen said last year. “He was the one who said, ‘Hey, this guy on the board right here, he might have something.’ Scott is always going to be my guy.”....

 

....Yes, Scott Turner really is Kyle’s guy. So much so, that Washington sent a 5th-round pick to get him from the Panthers.

And this is how the Nepotism Football League rabbit hole works. An unqualified rookie coordinator vouches for an undrafted QB, and needs that QB because he knows his system.

 

I thought about it, but I don't think Rivera is a racist.  I mean, he did coach Cam Newton.  Add to that, he is a minority himself.  

The problem with Rivera is that he doesn't know offense. Like at all.  I can say this about Bill Belichick:  while defense is his specialty, I would bet that he knows the offensive side very well,  as well as his offensive coordinator.

I agree with the Nepotism angle to a degree.  At the same time, there is a possibility that sons of offensive coordinators are pretty knowledgeable when it comes to offense.  Their dads probably taught them well.

I mean, Kyle Shanahan is probably a better playcaller than even his dad.  

Son of Norv, though, appears to be horrible.  The only explanation here is Nepotism. 

Analysts who know much  better than me (I am just a fan) are pointing to all sorts of breakdowns in the scheme of the offense.  I gotta say, with both Jay Gruden and Kyle Shanahan, their offenses were pretty much well designed.  I never heard criticisms like this.  Not even once.

So how are you going to blame Haskins for all these offensive problems that people keep pointing out?   So I am starting to conclude that Son of Norv is a bad offensive coordinator.

 

 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

No. Haskins poor play is obviously why he was benched, along with his refusal to watch film and the other **** he is doing to piss people off is why he is getting benched, traded,cut, laughed at, taunted, whatever. 

 

The way things are being handled and RRs behavior, IMO, might be affected by his cancer.

 

Nobody has excused Haskins by mentioning Cancer.

 

Ok, so you're not blaming cancer for Rivera's decision to bench Haskins...just the...way he did it? Like how he announced it? People have been railing against the actual decision to bench Haskins in this thread and then they bring up cancer and how it can affect decision making and behavior...and we're supposed to assume that you aren't somehow connecting the two? Seems a bit iffy. 

[HTTRDynasty]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Ok, so you're not blaming cancer for Rivera's decision to bench Haskins...just the...way he did it? Like how he announced it? People have been railing against the actual decision to bench Haskins in this thread and then they bring up cancer and how it can affect decision making and behavior...and we're supposed to assume that you aren't somehow connecting the two? Seems a bit iffy. 

 

Separate Haskins from this.  Do you not see some of the decisions he's made on the field this season as perplexing?  Do you not see some of the responses he's given in his press conferences as confusing and contradictory?

 

 

 

I have no idea if it has to do with cancer or not.  But I could see why some would question it.  Including Sheehan today.

 

 

[pico926]

1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

He has the best offensive mind in the game as his OC. He is also not a retread. Nice try.

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Who the **** knows.  His teammates were also the ones who made him a captain and cited the work he put in during the offseason and trainning camp as the reason why.  That's not innuendo.

 

What I do know is that Kyle Allen needs to come in and kill it to quiet down my concerns about the competency of this coaching staff.  Because right now it looks like they have zero clue about what to do at QB.  Right now it looks like they're not even pretending to compete this season.

At this point, all I can do is root for Haskins to land somewhere where he will be given a chance. 

 

A small part of me thinks that unless he's in the worst part of the dog house, he'll get another shot here because Allen is likely to get injured with our line and his style of play and then there's immobile Alex and him.

 

But that's assuming he's not traded by then and that Montez doesn't get the playing time over him. 

 

And when this happens I will be rooting for him. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, pico926 said:

He has the best offensive mind in the game as his OC. He is also not a retread. Nice try.

He is a retread.

[pico926]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

He is a retread.

Yeah comparing Rivera to Belichek. Again nice try.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Separate Haskins from this.  Do you not see some of the decisions he's made on the field this season as perplexing?  Do you not see some of the responses he's given in his press conferences as confusing and contradictory?

 

 

 

Every coach has some decisions I don't fully understand. And every coach has given some contradictory information, especially when it's about a player's status with the team.

 

I just don't see anything so abnormal from Rivera that I'd blame his cancer for it. I really don't see a need to go there. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, pico926 said:

Yeah comparing Rivera to Belichek. Again nice try.

I didn’t compare anyone.

 

I just said Belichick is a retread.

[pico926]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I didn’t compare anyone.

 

I just said Belichick is a retread.

Yeah a retread that won two super bowls as DC for Parcells before going to the Cleveland wasteland for 4 years only to become a HOF coach at NE. Correct he is a retread but a very poor reference by the poster. 

 

But Ron can learn a thing or two from Beli. Start by watching film and being a good evaluator of defensive talent and finding a half competent OC to prevent another top 3 worst offensive performance in NFL history. 

[philibusters]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

A small part of me thinks that unless he's in the worst part of the dog house, he'll get another shot here because Allen is likely to get injured with our line and his style of play and then there's immobile Alex and him.

 

But that's assuming he's not traded by then and that Montez doesn't get the playing time over him. 

 

I think people are discounting that possibility too much.  Allen could either get hurt or play poorly and that could open the door for Haskins.   With all due respect to Alex Smith, he just doesn't make sense in our circumstances.  He was a solid game manager but you cannot game manage this team to a lot of wins.  And its been two years since he played so there is no guarantee he can still be a good game manager. 

[mistertim]

Just now, pico926 said:

Yeah a retread that won two super bowls as DC for Parcells before going to the Cleveland wasteland for 4 years only to become a HOF coach at NE. Correct he is a retread but a very poor reference by the poster. 

 

But Ron can learn a thing or two from Beli. Start by watching film and being a good evaluator of defensive talent and finding a half competent OC to prevent another top 3 worst offensive performance in NFL history. 

 

Like "Make sure to draft the greatest QB to ever play the game in the 6th round your first year there"?

[philibusters]

Pete Carroll is another retread doing well now.  He was the HC of the Jets in 1994 and the Patriots from 1997-1999.

[HTTRDynasty]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Every coach has some decisions I don't fully understand. And every coach has given some contradictory information, especially when it's about a player's status with the team.

 

I just don't see anything so abnormal from Rivera that I'd blame his cancer for it. I really don't see a need to go there. 

 

You're sort of downplaying the confusion.  Even the commentators were speechless during the games he refused to use his timeouts in the 4th.  That's not normal.

 

Regardless, I don't necessarily agree with going down that road either.  I can just see why some would.

[pico926]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Like "Make sure to draft the greatest QB to ever play the game in the 6th round your first year there"?

They look 100 times better than us this year w/o Brady so....

 

keep trying though.

[GOATFrerotte]

2 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I think people are discounting that possibility too much.  Allen could either get hurt or play poorly and that could open the door for Haskins.   With all due respect to Alex Smith, he just doesn't make sense in our circumstances.  He was a solid game manager but you cannot game manage this team to a lot of wins.  And its been two years since he played so there is no guarantee he can still be a good game manager. 

 

I wouldn't mind a qb competition between Haskins and Allen. I don't think Alex Smith should be involved at all, he's 99% most likely getting cut this offseason. Let Haskins and Allen battle it out for who's going to be our placeholder while we build the team and shop for a franchise qb. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Another case in point, you can hit the ground running as a rookie QB, it doesn't have to take years.  SD stunk last year.   though its much tougher to hit the ground running when you got questionable intangibles and accuracy issues.