FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[dyst]

DH has a strong arm and if set, can make the throws, but not sure how effective he is on the move slight as it may be. Only concern with him is, does he have that “it” factor. Can he be top tier or is his middle of the pack type, or worse even.

[Est.1974]

Genuine question but is he supposed to look good in that video? Great arm strength no doubt, the rest...

 

hopefully we invest a lot of time into his development with high quality coaching.

 

If that means we also need to bring a vet in during free agency, so be it in my opinion.

[ggarriso]

7 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Genuine question but is he supposed to look good in that video? Great arm strength no doubt, the rest...

 

the jumpman lives lol - dont think any QB coach can fix those mechanics, dude is a lost cause! TUA

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Hahaha all these QB coaches On ES need to send their resumes in ASAP..Zampese watch out!

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Hahaha all these QB coaches On ES need to send their resumes in ASAP..Zampese watch out!

You know, it’s easy to post takes like this, but much harder to learn the game of football and understand that the mechanics are indeed, at the very least, are unconventional.

 

But since you seem to be an expert on QB mechanics, how do you feel about his power ratio as it pertains to upper body vs. hip generation?

 

Is it adequate?

 

How do you break down his ability to control the trajectory of the football in a situation where he is contacted where neither foot is on the ground?

 

Safe enough?

[kingdaddy]

Sorry if this has already been asked but, how would you feel if the Skins dealt DH for a 2nd round pick while taking Tua instead of Chase Young? Let's just say for example that Indy is willing to pony up their 2nd for DH....with that pick we could then take the best offensive lineman available or maybe one of the top TE's. I know this would piss off most of us but I'm starting to see more reports that our staff really likes Tua. I don't see any way you keep both DH and Tua. 

[KDawg]

As it stands right now... if Tua were pretty much injury free I’d do it and wouldn’t hesitate. But he’s not. So I take Young if he’s available.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@KDawg man there are so many things I can say to your post, But I’ll just keep it civil and simple and remind you to not take yourself so seriously you lose the ability to see a joke for what it is...✌🏽

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@KDawg man there are so many things I can say to your post, But I’ll just keep it civil and simple and remind you to not take yourself so seriously you lose the ability to see a joke for what it is...✌🏽

Has nothing to do with taking myself too seriously. It’s the constant “Lol Haskins is fine because I think so, so let me imply no one else knows what they’re talking about because they see he isn’t perfect with this joke.”

 

Does that pertain to you in a general sense? My instinct says no. Buts it’s prevalent here. And it drives me insane. People can like Haskins and still see he has improvements to make.

 

You’re a good poster. And we all have bad posts. I sure as hell know I have. 

[kingdaddy]

I really believe the gap between where our coaches feel Tua will be as a pro compared to where Haskins will be could be the deciding factor. As great as Chase Young is projected to be, if there is doubt at all about DH then Tua becomes a real possibility for the Skins. I am torn but can't say I trust Haskins as the best option for this team moving forward at QB. If Tua is considered to be that great of a prospect then I have no problem taking him over Chase Young. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@KDawg No, in general that assessment wouldn’t pertain to me. Haskins has lots to work on. And I’ll let Zampese breakdown the how and what he should be working on, I think he’s in good hands.

[skinsmania123]

45 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I really believe the gap between where our coaches feel Tua will be as a pro compared to where Haskins will be could be the deciding factor. As great as Chase Young is projected to be, if there is doubt at all about DH then Tua becomes a real possibility for the Skins. I am torn but can't say I trust Haskins as the best option for this team moving forward at QB. If Tua is considered to be that great of a prospect then I have no problem taking him over Chase Young. 

This team simply can't take the risk of Tua.  He has been seriously injured and at the risk of repeating myself again, guys in the NFL are bigger, faster and stronger.  What will happen to him in the NFL?  Is the risk worth it?  I don't think so.  The track record of the Redskins in taking prior injured players has been abysmal.

 

 If Cleveland was not so QB hungry they would snatch Young up in a second.  Because the BPA in this draft is Chase Young. 

 

The deal with Haskins again IMO is that there are entirely too many unknowns.  His improvement over the last three games of the season certainly led many to breathe a sigh of relief. I know I did.  But I think one major unknown, but one that is true for many rookie QB's is will the improvement continue to grow during his sophomore season.  Will he be able to build upon the improvements we all saw?  Will he work on some of the mechanical issues some have posted about here and mentioned by some analysts.  I truly believe Rivera is going to roll with him but bring in a vet for competition. 

[Snagletooth]

So what are the mechanics for throwing on the run when scrambling to the left for a right handed QB?   Its an awkward throw regardless. The distance is still pretty impressive even if the accuracy would be inconsistent.   Thought the foot speed looked impressive and ankle recovery too.

[crabbypatty]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Has nothing to do with taking myself too seriously. It’s the constant “Lol Haskins is fine because I think so, so let me imply no one else knows what they’re talking about because they see he isn’t perfect with this joke.”

 

Does that pertain to you in a general sense? My instinct says no. Buts it’s prevalent here. And it drives me insane. People can like Haskins and still see he has improvements to make.

 

You’re a good poster. And we all have bad posts. I sure as hell know I have. 

isn't the point of the drill he posted to work on strengthening the leg that had the high ankle sprain last year by doing things that you wouldn't normally do on that leg? Hence all the hopping around.

I don't think that particular video was meant to be a "look at how mechanically sound and how proficient I am" type thing. It looked like one of those goofy "doing dumb stuff on a hurt leg to prove it ain't hurt video.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

isn't the point of the drill he posted to work on strengthening the leg that had the high ankle sprain last year by doing things that you wouldn't normally do on that leg? Hence all the hopping around.

I don't think that particular video was meant to be a "look at how mechanically sound and how proficient I am" type thing. It looked like one of those goofy "doing dumb stuff on a hurt leg to prove it ain't hurt video.

Well, the hopping part was. But it transitions into an actual roll out drill. You don’t practice poor mechanics on a throw just to do crazy ankle work. You use other ankle strengthening modalities... like he did in the first part of the drill.

 

Mechanics are very rep oriented. They practice them all the time. Changing mechanics for the sake of a drill like this is a quarterbacking (and general as it pertains to football) no no. Practice makes permanent. 
 

But even in using your hypothesis that he was just doing stupid stuff... why the hell did it look like his throwing form from the actual 2019 season?

[crabbypatty]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Well, the hopping part was. But it transitions into an actual roll out drill. You don’t practice poor mechanics on a throw just to do crazy ankle work. You use other ankle strengthening modalities... like he did in the first part of the drill.

 

Mechanics are very rep oriented. They practice them all the time. Changing mechanics for the sake of a drill like this is a quarterbacking (and general as it pertains to football) no no. Practice makes permanent. 
 

But even in using your hypothesis that he was just doing stupid stuff... why the hell did it look like his throwing form from the actual 2019 season?

Maybe it wasn't supposed to be a roll out drill in the traditional sense. It looked like he was moving laterally to me. Usually roll outs involve a few steps back toward the rb and then loop around, do they not?

 

All I was saying is maybe the mechanics of the throw isn't what they were focusing on. Not every rep is going to be perfect. Who knows. 

Anyway it doesn't look like it was meant to be taken so seriously. If whoever was there with him on the staff didn't have a problem with it, I don't know why we should.

[skinny21]

A few things go through my mind In regards to watching the video, the fact the video was posted, and the responses.

 

The responses:  feels a bit sad that we’re at roughly two pages breaking down a 5 second video meant to be about him strengthening his ankle.  Here I am posting about though, so I’m not judging anyone.  

The why (always gotta know your why):  have to think this is all about showing Rivera et al he’s putting the work in.  Yet here we are debating it... so maybe it was about the fans too.  

 

The video itself:  so I’m with @KDawg that the mechanics are off.  Sure, this isn’t about mechanics, but he (and any qb) should be striving for solid mechanics even if that isn’t the direct goal of the drill.  The fact that his mechanics look the same as in-season, makes me wonder if he realizes it’s a problem.  Then again, maybe he does have a sense of that and is just waiting on being able to work with his coaches (Zampese) to do it how they want it.  Another, maybe remote possibility... perhaps the videos - from both the front and the angle we see - are so they (whoever they is) have footage to critique.  
 

I’ll echo what others have said though - I’m gonna trust that Zampese and co. will tweak his mechanics fairly significantly this offseason.  Gonna be hard to do it enough that he doesn’t fall into bad habits in-game, but I expect they’ll keep hammering away at it and consistency will come with time.  Assuming he gets that time.  The fact that Haskins was praised last year for not repeating mistakes - ie (IMO) being very coachable (very different from lack of preparation, work ethic or trouble digesting a difficult play book) - should help.  
 

 

 

 

Now, totally separate from the video, and at the risk of turning this into an unreadably long post, I’ve had some thoughts on the three things I mentioned above: work ethic, preparation and digesting a playbook.  
 

First off, preparation.  We all know this was a major issue last year and seemed to improve quite a bit (none of us know quite how much of course).  I was trying to look at it from his standpoint and here’s what I’m asking myself:  how much this stemmed from the transition to the Pros?  
 

His year as a starter in college, did a tailored scheme, with an excellent supporting cast, full offseason reps, success in practice (going against a D that was not accustomed to Ryan Day’s offensive scheme) and success in games (against relatively simpler and less talented defenses) lead him to believe in his preparation?   Imagine him struggling in practice and thinking - “well, most of these guys have practiced against this D for a long time”, or “Case is having trouble too, so I think it’s natural that I, as a rookie, am struggling too”.  Not that far fetched IMO.  We all know how it played out.  He gets shoved into relief duty and comes out of them realizing what he’s done is not enough.  By all accounts, things changed after that.  So I think maybe there’s hope.  
 

The playbook:  this ones fairly simple (ironically).  Keenum, a vet that has played in multiple systems, dealt with protections, and seen most every kind of defense, talked about how difficult it was to digest.  To me, this is maybe akin to a fluent Spanish speaker learning Portuguese (Case), vs someone who knows just some basic Spanish learning the same.  
 

Work ethic:  this one is trickier for me, and I think a part of that is because motivation comes in different forms.  Bottom line though, when we hear about guys that say they played harder because of a teammate or coach’s speech, so we assume the player was unmotivated before that?  When we hear someone talking about Peterson setting an example of working hard, do we assume the player isn’t a self starter?  Now, I said it’s tricky in part because if there is anyone on my team that I want to be a workaholic, it’s my qb.  With that said, I think it’s possible that, in conjunction with improved preparation, Haskins develops a stronger work ethic due to motivation from his coaches, teammates, desire to be great, etc.  I also think it’s possible that he didn’t realize just how hard he had to work at this level.  
 

None of the above means I don’t have concerns about those aspects... I truly do.  I just think there’s a reasonable chance he allays them next year.  And if he does allay them, I think the sky’s the limit.  If he doesn’t, well... back to the drawing board.  

[wit33]

I’d be shocked if Haskins managed to change his mechanics when rolling left, but fortunately Brady can throw more than 10 yards when rolling left and he does alright lol Would love to see him engage the lower half much more, but his elite arm might do the trick.
 

Jordan was a horrible 3 point shooter. 

[Burgold]

Just for fun, who is the best (most successful) NFL QB with the worst mechanics? Was it Brett Farve? This conversation has me thinking about all the times I've heard on the TV announcers complain that so and so has such as an odd throwing motion or angle or does it wrong (weird). 

 

I think the analysis above is on point and mechanics are pretty crucial, but I also wonder sometimes if there is more than one set of mechanics. For instance (and I know this is a stupid comparison) I learned typing wrong. Even today, my hands rest on the wrong set of keys, but I still at need can churn out 40-50 words per minute which while not the fastest is good enough and better than many. I just developed an offset style that has become so ingrained that I I don't know if I could move my hands over even if the difference is literally one key distant.

[KDawg]

Long story short... there are unorthodox mechanics that work for guys sometimes. And if they work you leave them alone most of the time.

 

As I said in my initial post about the video, I trust that Zampese will evaluate and get Haskins to make the changes necessary. 
 

But this kind of thing is my biggest concern with him. Not his size. Not his arm. Not his competitive drive. His attention to detail, his situational awareness, his decision making process. If Zampese can fix those, we have a dude.

[LD0506]

Damn, it's still raging here...........

 

As much as I like Haskins I agree w/ KDawg, I don't see the two points as mutually exclusive. I think that hiring Zampese said a lot, the kid will get top coaching to give him the best chance and if after that the assessment is "no", then so be it. I kinda get the comments on his mechanics, he does some awkward **** at times but IMO if you want to change that you start with basics, and some of that is going to be drills to instill different mechanics. To do that you have to break old habits, sometimes a drill isn't new programming, it can be overwriting old programs. Haskins had success based on sheer physical ability and skipped a lot of the intermediate lessons, there will have to be some backtracking and filling in blanks. To me the biggest issue is whether or not Haskins can humble himself a tad and accept the opinions and coaching, and that's a hard thing for any 22 yr old. It pisses me off that these things were not done a year ago. At this point we're all trying to read tea leaves, we will know something tangible by TC. 

 

But yeah, the jump pass is cringeworthy, knock that **** off!

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

31 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

Damn, it's still raging here...........

 

As much as I like Haskins I agree w/ KDawg, I don't see the two points as mutually exclusive. I think that hiring Zampese said a lot, the kid will get top coaching to give him the best chance and if after that the assessment is "no", then so be it. I kinda get the comments on his mechanics, he does some awkward **** at times but IMO if you want to change that you start with basics, and some of that is going to be drills to instill different mechanics. To do that you have to break old habits, sometimes a drill isn't new programming, it can be overwriting old programs. Haskins had success based on sheer physical ability and skipped a lot of the intermediate lessons, there will have to be some backtracking and filling in blanks. To me the biggest issue is whether or not Haskins can humble himself a tad and accept the opinions and coaching, and that's a hard thing for any 22 yr old. It pisses me off that these things were not done a year ago. At this point we're all trying to read tea leaves, we will know something tangible by TC. 

 

But yeah, the jump pass is cringeworthy, knock that **** off!

Pretty much agree with this except for the "jump pass".

 

There's a time and place for everything. 🤔

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Pretty much agree with this except for the "jump pass".

 

There's a time and place for everything. 🤔

Actually, I agree here With two caveats. He always does it. So it’s not a time/place thing.

 

And the second: there’s not a time and place for everything. Unorthodox deliveries when facing specific situations/pressures. Sure! Jump passes... not very often. 
 

But the message that I think you’re trying to get across is there is room for some unorthodox things in a quarterback. And I agree completely there - as long as it works.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Actually, I agree here With two caveats. He always does it. So it’s not a time/place thing.

 

And the second: there’s not a time and place for everything. Unorthodox deliveries when facing specific situations/pressures. Sure! Jump passes... not very often. 
 

But the message that I think you’re trying to get across is there is room for some unorthodox things in a quarterback. And I agree completely there - as long as it works.

Exactly 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I'm sure this was discussed ad nauseam in pages past, but I was busy.  

 

So I'm just going to leave this here:  Rob Ryan is exactly the type of guest that ass hat, failure of a human being, shock jock, scumbag Collin Cowheard gets on the his pointless, low-minded, and extremely limited radio show: a guy who has a lot of hair, is a loud mouth, and a terrible track record as a coach.  The only reason Rob Ryan ever got an opportunity to coach in the NFL is because his dad was a legend, and his brother was honestly a pretty damn good coach there for a while.  That's it.  He's failed everywhere he's been as a DC.  He was out of coaching for 2 years, and the only reason he was hired to the Redskins is because Jay couldn't find quality coaches to join him on the extremely obvious voyage of the Titanic. Rob said he was actually down working on the docks somewhere. Nobody else wanted him anywhere near their organizations.

 

Except Cowheard, because that jackass just wants sound bites and to stir controversy and discontent.  So he called up a coach who can't help himself.  Honestly, I would say the same thing if Rob had said Haskins was going to be the next Ben Rothlisburger.  Basically, what the hell does Rob know about anything?  

 

So, that said, given the platform and the source, we are all dumber from listening to anything Rob Ryan had to say about Haskins.  

 

Ok, everybody can now go on with their social distancing and quarantines.