FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Riggo#44]

39 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I haven’t seen anyone mock a good draft, to be honest

 

WalterFootball has been pretty accurate, I think.

[Skinsinparadise]

52 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I really dislike quotes like this. Who is the source? Rick Snider will say he is familiar with the organization's thinking--doesn't mean his opinion matters more than a bag of dog**** to me...

 

This is why this quote doesn't matter a bit to me--Kiper and McShay are standard ESPN--sound bites and face time, accuracy and fact-telling be damned.

I don't see though how an opinion is fact telling?   We all got our takes here on Haskins.  There is no fact that Haskins is a franchise QB or for that matter that he isn't.  We all have our opinions based on what we think.  Kiper and McShay are no different 

 

I don't know if you ever listen to their podcasts but they are free flowing, they just expand on their thoughts more more so than they do on TV.  I don't think I've ever seen their podcast quotes turn into stories.  When they are on TV, it's a different story.

 

And yeah if you listen to them enough, it paints a picture.  I do think McShay genuinely isn't high on Haskins.  Kiper is back and forth on him, not really high, not really low.   Neither write him off but neither is in love with the dude and that's not hard to parcel out of their podcasts. 

 

Does their opinion matter?  Nope. But to my point that McShay says he'd consider Tua in the Redskins shoes.  I think he genuinely means it.  He's slammed Haskins on multiple podcasts.  And McShay has plenty of man crushes.  I think if he really dug Haskins, he'd say he does. 

[HTTRDynasty]

23 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

WalterFootball has been pretty accurate, I think.

 

Yeah, they win.  Lol at Mel Kiper.

 

2019 NFL Mock Draft Accuracy

                                     2019 Mock Drafts                                     2018 Mock Drafts                                 

Who has the most accurate NFL Mock Draft?
Our accuracy scores rate the first round predictions of Draft Analysts across four scoring categories. Analysts earn points based on their ability to correctly predict: 1) Draft slots for each player, 2) Rank within a position players will be drafted, 3) Positions (e.g. QB) each team will select, and 4) Teams that will pick each player. View full scoring methodology here

2019 NFL Mock Draft Accuracy | FantasyPros

Rank	Analyst	Points by Category
		Draft Slots (?) 128 pts possible	Player Ranks (?) 96 pts possible	Positions (?) 64 pts possible	Teams (?) 32 pts possible	Total (?) 320 pts possible
1	Charlie Campbell - Walter Football	54	78	28	11	171
2	Walter Cherepinsky - Walter Football	55	71	34	9	169
3	Evan Silva - Rotoworld	52	78	26	10	166
4	Ben Standig - NBC Sports	57	70	28	11	166
5	Michael Middlehurst-Schwartz	56	73	26	10	165
6	Kevin Hanson - EDSFootball	47	78	26	13	164
7	Jason La Canfora - CBS Sports	47	79	30	7	163
8	Zach Berman - Philly.com	58	70	24	11	163
9	Scott Smith - RotoViz	50	73	28	12	163
10	Anthony Staggs - FF Statistics	50	73	30	8	161
11	Peter Schrager - NFL.com	52	75	24	10	161
12	Brad Richter - Going For 2	50	74	28	7	159
13	Dan Brugler - The Athletic	42	76	32	9	159
14	Daniel Jeremiah - NFL.com	48	78	24	9	159
15	Chris Trapasso - CBS Sports	52	73	26	8	159
16	Todd McShay - ESPN	50	73	28	8	159
17	Brendan Donahue - EDSFootball	52	77	22	8	159
18	Ken Zalis - Pressbox	48	77	24	9	158
19	Jenny Vrentas - The MMQB	54	68	26	10	158
20	Matt Miller - Bleacher Report	54	69	26	7	156
21	Luke Easterling - Draft Wire	50	75	24	7	156
22	Matthew Freedman - FantasyLabs	42	77	28	9	156
23	Dave Birkett - Detroit Free Press	57	70	22	6	155
24	Staff - Draft Site	51	69	28	7	155
25	Dan Turner - NFL Draft Zone	52	66	28	9	155
26	DJ Boyer - DraftSite	51	69	28	7	155
27	Elisha Twerski - Cheesehead TV	46	72	28	8	154
28	Nate Bouda - NFL Trade Rumors	46	70	28	10	154
29	Staff - Tankathon	45	78	24	7	154
30	Bryan Fischer - Athlon Sports	53	69	24	7	153
31	Chris Simms - Bleacher Report	50	66	30	6	152
32	Jimmy Kempski - Philly Voice	51	67	26	8	152
33	Rob Staton - Seahawks Draft Blog	48	74	22	7	151
34	Matthew Jones - Draft Examiner	45	71	24	11	151
35	Eric Galko - Optimum Scouting	47	71	24	8	150
36	Don Banks - Patriots.com	49	69	24	8	150
37	Jody Smith - FantasyPros	43	75	24	7	149
38	R.J. White - CBS Sports	48	69	24	7	148
39	Ryan McCrystal - Draft Ace	42	72	26	8	148
40	Ryan Wilson - CBS Sports	48	66	24	9	147
41	Peter King - The MMQB	50	66	22	8	146
42	Manish Mehta - NY Daily News	48	67	22	9	146
43	Jared Smola - Draft Sharks	38	74	26	8	146
44	Trevor Sikkema - The Draft Network	50	63	22	10	145
45	Josh Norris - Rotoworld	40	68	30	7	145
46	Bob Glauber - Newsday	47	73	18	7	145
47	Brad Biggs - Chicago Tribune	44	70	22	8	144
48	Staff - My NFL Draft	49	68	20	7	144
49	Benjamin Solak - The Draft Network	43	67	26	7	143
50	Pat Fitzmaurice - The Football Girl	48	69	20	6	143
51	Andy Singleton - Expand The Boxscore	42	70	24	6	142
52	Mel Kiper Jr. - ESPN	41	66	28	7	142

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I really dislike quotes like this. Who is the source? Rick Snider will say he is familiar with the organization's thinking--doesn't mean his opinion matters more than a bag of dog**** to me...

 

To me, "a source familiar with the organization’s thinking" is basically saying "My source doesn't actually know anything or have any first-or-secondhand knowledge, but here's their educated speculation."

[PartyPosse]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/11/source-says-washington-interest-in-tua-a-smokescreen

 

Makes sense to me.

[CommanderInTheRye]

36 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

To me, "a source familiar with the organization’s thinking" is basically saying "My source doesn't actually know anything or have any first-or-secondhand knowledge, but here's their educated speculation."

 

The writer is definitely casting a wide net. It’s so vaguely worded that it could literally encompass anyone from Rivera himself to the wife of the greenskeeper at Redskins park. Given the propensity of reporters to exaggerate  the legitimacy of their sources I suspect it’s closer to the latter than the former.

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/11/source-says-washington-interest-in-tua-a-smokescreen

 

Makes sense to me.

 

Well, my thing is that it has to make sense, otherwise, drafting a dude like Tua at no. 2 overall to "Compete" with Haskins, should be enough to get you committed. It really isn't even a good smokescreen.

 

Any good lie has to have a shred of truth/believability.  That leaked explanation sinks it.

[volsmet]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Well, my thing is that it has to make sense, otherwise, drafting a dude like Tua at no. 2 overall to "Compete" with Haskins, should be enough to get you committed. It really isn't even a good smokescreen.

 

Any good lie has to have a shred of truth/believability.  That leaked explanation sinks it.

Nobody in the league believes Washington is going to take Tua. 

[joeken24]

I am in only one camp besides keeping Haskins as the starter. If the Redskins pick up Teddy Bridgewater (age 28) and let them compete for the starting position. Of course I believe Teddy wins. This is not a bad thing, because it gives Haskins that developmental time back (although many might say the only way to develop is to play). Teddy comes in the door understanding Turner's offense. Haskins can learn the new offense under Teddy. Over time, if D shows that he's NFL ready, he'll be the starter in waiting while the team wins football games under Teddy. I realize Teddy is going to want to get paid, so you pay the man his money. You wanna win right?

I am absolutely against bringing in a rookie in hopes that he'll be NFL ready. I really don't think any of the QBs in the draft are world beaters. Tua is getting ridiculous hype IMO. Nevertheless, the Redskins can not afford to be hamstrung by inadequate play at that position. Its not to say that I think Haskins will be bad. But if the coaches don't feel comfortable with him, they would be best served by getting the best option at the position now. On the other hand, Ron has said that this process is not going to happen overnight. He even said it may take a year or two. And for  sure he does not want to get into a QB carousel this team has been in for an entire generation. Picking up Teddy would be a bit a carousel. But I'd be 100% fine with getting on this one. Pick up Teddy in FA, draft a NFL ready player in Chase. No projects please. 

[Thinking Skins]

21 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

2019 NFL Mock Draft Accuracy

 

1. I really respect this because it gives a (maybe not the best but at least a) way to compare the different mocks, particularly over more than one spectrum like just player X going to team Y. 

 

2. I had to reconsider my sources. I've always liked Walterfootball because they have a nice site thats easy to navigate and has a wealth of information. I don't always consider it the most efficient, and some of their stuff on the lower round prospects may be nothing more than a sentence (if that) compared to multiple pages for the potential higher picks. I'm not really a mock guy but I do find it interesting that they did so well. 

 

3. My other site is NFL.com and they seem to have more information about more players, so I like them probably more than Walterfootball. Its interesting that they are all for the most part in that 159 total points range (except Dan Turner who had 155) but its an interesting way of looking at things. 

 

4. Like I said I'm not too big on mocks, but this gives me more information about how much I trust their scouting reports. WF and NFL are two I've been going to for a while because of how easy their sites are to navigate. But I will have to make sure I'm updating my sources. 

[Fresh8686]

 

[Vanguard]

@Fresh8686

 

That arm though.....

😱

[RWJ]

All good to see.  Haskins will prove all the doubters wrong.  If Rivera gives him a strong OL and players around him this O can be special, I think.  We have the talent on the D and when we draft Young and JDR is able to work with our D as a whole, this team is headed in the right direction. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 3/11/2020 at 3:50 PM, Califan007 said:

 

To me, "a source familiar with the organization’s thinking" is basically saying "My source doesn't actually know anything or have any first-or-secondhand knowledge, but here's their educated speculation."

That word, educated, I do not think it means what you think it means. 
 

 

Every member of ES is “a source familiar with the organization’s thinking.” 

[KDawg]

11 hours ago, RWJ said:

All good to see.  Haskins will prove all the doubters wrong.  If Rivera gives him a strong OL and players around him this O can be special, I think.  We have the talent on the D and when we draft Young and JDR is able to work with our D as a whole, this team is headed in the right direction. 

 

Agree. Dude has a cannon. You know what I don't love there, though? The jump throw he did all last season that wound up not working a majority of the time and led to inaccuracy.

 

We'll see. I think Zampese is going to refine the things that need it and let the things that can slip stay as they are. I'm cautiously optimistic with Haskins at this point. Especially due to Zampese's involvement.  

[wit33]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Agree. Dude has a cannon. You know what I don't love there, though? The jump throw he did all last season that wound up not working a majority of the time and led to inaccuracy.

 

We'll see. I think Zampese is going to refine the things that need it and let the things that can slip stay as they are. I'm cautiously optimistic with Haskins at this point. Especially due to Zampese's involvement.  
 

 

 

Running and throwing going left is awkward, especially when trying to deliver a football with power or down the field for any QB (Most don’t have the ability to do so down the field). Dump offs or throws that don’t require much power are different. 
 

What is the proper technique/form when sprinting left for a right handed QB? 
 

I guess for me, I’m okay with his shoulders being square and achieving some level of lower half balance when starting his throwing motion. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Running and throwing going left is awkward, especially when trying to deliver a football with power or down the field for any QB (Most don’t have the ability to do so down the field). Dump offs or throws that don’t require much power are different. 
 

What is the proper technique/form when sprinting left for a right handed QB? 

 

Shoulders around, hips in throw. 

 

It's not stay square to LOS, jump in the air and fling

[KDawg]

55 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I guess for me, I’m okay with his shoulders being square and achieving some level of lower half balance when starting his throwing motion. 

 

Problem is the throw is all arm. He can get away with it a little because his arm is so strong, but he wouldn't need to get away with it if he got his shoulders around. If his arm goes, or he has an injury to any part of his upper body, it's going to effect his ability to get the ball out there. The hips are what generates more power and allows for a better "aimed" throw. 

 

The hips are the power hose in athletic movements, as I'm sure you are aware. Throwing a baseball, hitting a baseball, tackling, etc. 

 

When going back to watching him last year, he actually had some throws where he was in the air when he threw the ball. 

[HTTRDynasty]

I don't agree with the 2nd part of this, for the record...

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Every member of ES is “a source familiar with the organization’s thinking.” 

 

great point lol...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

 

 

1

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Agree. Dude has a cannon. You know what I don't love there, though? The jump throw he did all last season that wound up not working a majority of the time and led to inaccuracy.

 

We'll see. I think Zampese is going to refine the things that need it and let the things that can slip stay as they are. I'm cautiously optimistic with Haskins at this point. Especially due to Zampese's involvement.  

 

Exactly (that part in bold)....it's almost like a bad habit that he falls back into a little too easily.

 

 

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Running and throwing going left is awkward, especially when trying to deliver a football with power or down the field for any QB (Most don’t have the ability to do so down the field). Dump offs or throws that don’t require much power are different. 
 

What is the proper technique/form when sprinting left for a right handed QB? 
 

I guess for me, I’m okay with his shoulders being square and achieving some level of lower half balance when starting his throwing motion. 

 

The problem for me is, he does those jump throws in all scenarios..running left, running right, back-peddling, running forward...you name it. Right now it's the one aspect of his game that I fear he wont improve on anytime soon.

[wit33]

15 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

The problem for me is, he does those jump throws in all scenarios..running left, running right, back-peddling, running forward...you name it. Right now it's the one aspect of his game that I fear he wont improve on anytime soon.

Good point on it being present in other areas of his game. That is a worrisome trait that hopefully either works it out of his game or masters it to the level of it being effective. 

Not as concerned when he does it rolling left as much, due to feeling like all QBs naturally have an upward motion when throwing on the run to the left. The amount of time the QB has to set his feet also plays a role— it seems when in a rush the lower half plays less of a role and with more time the QBs engage the the lower half more effectively. 

 

 

[crabbypatty]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Good point on it being present in other areas of his game. That is a worrisome trait that hopefully either works it out of his game or masters it to the level of it being effective. 

Not as concerned when he does it rolling left as much, due to feeling like all QBs naturally have an upward motion when throwing on the run to the left. The amount of time the QB has to set his feet also plays a role— it seems when in a rush the lower half plays less of a role and with more time the QBs engage the the lower half more effectively. 

 

 

I think much of that had to do with the game speed being too fast for him and him not believing what his eyes were seeing. I think it'll improve with experience. Reps are the only cure for bad habits. Once he's seen it all/done it all he will know what he can and can't get away with in this league.. understanding and evolution in his game will follow.

 

If the tweet from the guy saying DH working on moving laterally to improve his pocket elusiveness, then he's already showing signs of understanding and evolving. I say give the dude a chance. You can't bail on a uber talented guy after one year. That is foolhardy.

 

[KDawg]

Except, guys, he’s not per this video. 
 

He’s also really flat in his roll out. 
 

It’s a troubling sign. But in Zampese I trust.

[wit33]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

Except, guys, he’s not per this video. 
 

He’s also really flat in his roll out. 
 

It’s a troubling sign. But in Zampese I trust.

I’m most encouraged by his ability to move in the pocket and roll out in either direction— One of the main reasons I like his ceiling potential. It’s An absolute must for the pocket QBs of today to have the ability to manipulate and create plays on the edges when available. The dude seems to naturally have this and really pride himself on doing so.
 

Disclaimer: I have not reached any conclusion on the dude.