FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Jericho]

If Allen is the starter, something has gone horribly wrong. It could happen, but its 99.9% because Haskins has gotten injured or just sucked so bad he had to be benched or something along those line. It's not because Allen has suddenly morphed into Tom Brady. How many starting level QBs in the NFL went undrafted, then cut, then free for any team to sign for nearly a full season, then get traded for a 5th round pick? I think the only modern comparison to something like that would be Kurt Warner (Tony Romo went undrafted, but was never cut or traded. The Cowboys knew they had a player of value). 

[Llevron]

27 minutes ago, Jericho said:

If Allen is the starter, something has gone horribly wrong. It could happen, but its 99.9% because Haskins has gotten injured or just sucked so bad he had to be benched or something along those line. It's not because Allen has suddenly morphed into Tom Brady. How many starting level QBs in the NFL went undrafted, then cut, then free for any team to sign for nearly a full season, then get traded for a 5th round pick? I think the only modern comparison to something like that would be Kurt Warner (Tony Romo went undrafted, but was never cut or traded. The Cowboys knew they had a player of value). 

 

I dont think you have to be Tom Brady to beat Haskins out. Truth is Haskins is still young in NFL years and a number of things can happen between the ears that would lead him in the wrong direction. And number of things could and should go right for him though, so yes something would have to go wrong probably. But Haskins is not so much better that it would take a TB like effort to beat him out. He should be on his toes and I think thats the point. Its better for the whole team that way too. Someone described our as the octagon. I like that. Fight for your life ****es. 

[SkinsGuy]

25 minutes ago, Jericho said:

If Allen is the starter, something has gone horribly wrong.

 

Or it may be because Allen is more familiar with Scott Turner's system.

 

A familiarity Haskins may not be able to acquire this offseason if all the OTAs and mini-camps are cancelled this year.

 

I still think Haskins will be the guy, but it depends on how much he can learn about the new system without the usual work.

[Jericho]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I dont think you have to be Tom Brady to beat Haskins out. Truth is Haskins is still young in NFL years and a number of things can happen between the ears that would lead him in the wrong direction. And number of things could and should go right for him though, so yes something would have to go wrong probably. But Haskins is not so much better that it would take a TB like effort to beat him out. He should be on his toes and I think thats the point. Its better for the whole team that way too. Someone described our as the octagon. I like that. Fight for your life ****es. 

 

But that's part of my point. If Haskins can't even beat out Allen (who is not a starter level player), then Haskins is a bad player. Potentially very bad. And essentially that means he's a bust. So something's gone wrong. I suppose a QB can suck for years and then turn it around. Drew Brees being the best example I can think of. But that seems very unlikely. And Haskins would have to be noticeably worse that Allen to really make it worth starting Allen. Which means something's gone very wrong with his "development"

[HTTRDynasty]

27 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

But that's part of my point. If Haskins can't even beat out Allen (who is not a starter level player), then Haskins is a bad player. Potentially very bad. And essentially that means he's a bust. So something's gone wrong. I suppose a QB can suck for years and then turn it around. Drew Brees being the best example I can think of. But that seems very unlikely. And Haskins would have to be noticeably worse that Allen to really make it worth starting Allen. Which means something's gone very wrong with his "development"

 

I mean, Kirk Cousins couldn't even beat out Colt McCoy for a long period of time.  I wouldn't give up on Haskins if he doesn't win the battle this offseason, especially with the probable lack of normal reps he'll get picking up the new offense.

[Jericho]

3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I mean, Kirk Cousins couldn't even beat out Colt McCoy for a long period of time.  I wouldn't give up on Haskins if he doesn't win the battle this offseason, especially with the probable lack of normal reps he'll get picking up the new offense.

 

What are you talking about? In no season did McCoy ever start more games than Cousins. Cousins was the primary back-up to Griffin in 2012 and 2013. Cousins was the full time started by 2015. The only issue might be 2014, which was a mix of starts from Griffin (7), Cousins (5), and McCoy (4). Though Cousins was the primary back-up as he took over for Griffin in Game 2 and started Games 3-7. He eventually got benched for poor play, but McCoy was the third stringer and got 3 of his 4 starts at the end of the year when the team had three wins and decided to just try anything out.

[HTTRDynasty]

12 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

What are you talking about? In no season did McCoy ever start more games than Cousins. Cousins was the primary back-up to Griffin in 2012 and 2013. Cousins was the full time started by 2015. The only issue might be 2014, which was a mix of starts from Griffin (7), Cousins (5), and McCoy (4). Though Cousins was the primary back-up as he took over for Griffin in Game 2 and started Games 3-7. He eventually got benched for poor play, but McCoy was the third stringer and got 3 of his 4 starts at the end of the year when the team had three wins and decided to just try anything out.

 

I'm talking about the 2014 season, when Cousins couldn't take a firm hold of the starting QB job when RGIII was injured.

[Jericho]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I'm talking about the 2014 season, when Cousins couldn't take a firm hold of the starting QB job when RGIII was injured.

 

And Cousins beat him out. Was the primary back-up. Cousins did get benched during the season for poor play. That had nothing to do with McCoy specifically. In fact, the team went back to Griffin after that. McCoy only got any real time at the end of the season after the team burned through all the QBs and they all played poorly. Not all that dissimilar to Carolina playing Will Grier for a few games at the end of the year and "benching" Allen. Grier wasn't better, but the team figured why not?

 

But that still leaves the main point. If Haskins can't beat out Allen (and let's be honest here, if it's even remotely close Haskins will win), then something's gone really wrong. Allen is what, the 50th best QB in the NFL? It doesn't 100% mean Haskins will never be good, but the odds are really long at that point and I think at you are basically looking to the 2021 draft for another QB pick.

[CommandB11]

7 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

And Cousins beat him out. Was the primary back-up. Cousins did get benched during the season for poor play. That had nothing to do with McCoy specifically. In fact, the team went back to Griffin after that. McCoy only got any real time at the end of the season after the team burned through all the QBs and they all played poorly. Not all that dissimilar to Carolina playing Will Grier for a few games at the end of the year and "benching" Allen. Grier wasn't better, but the team figured why not?

 

But that still leaves the main point. If Haskins can't beat out Allen (and let's be honest here, if it's even remotely close Haskins will win), then something's gone really wrong. Allen is what, the 50th best QB in the NFL? It doesn't 100% mean Haskins will never be good, but the odds are really long at that point and I think at you are basically looking to the 2021 draft for another QB pick.

I do say 50th is an exaggeration. He started 12 games for 1 of 32 teams in the NFL last year and by your own words "benched" for "why not". He may not be one of the 32 best. But I would certainly put him in the top 40.

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I mean, Kirk Cousins couldn't even beat out Colt McCoy for a long period of time.  I wouldn't give up on Haskins if he doesn't win the battle this offseason, especially with the probable lack of normal reps he'll get picking up the new offense.

 

 

To me that depends on the context of how it went down.  Since Kirk seems part of the discussion, I'll use him as an example.  I recall multiple beat reporters early on about Kirk said the dude was always studying the playbook, they'd pass him by in the locker room and he was studying his IPAD, etc. 

 

Kirk talked about when he was benched in 2014 he hired a QB coach to work on what he was missing as a player -- and he was doing that in addition to the team practices.  He was obsessed and worked at it.  He's not alone.  Alex Smith is billed that way.  Russell Wilson.  Cam. And a lot of the good to great Qbs in the league. 

 

As for Haskins, he's not billed as a workaholic at least not in the past.  Kyle Allen talked about how he prepared every game like he would be the starter even if he wasn't slated to start.   How he'd memorize plays in front of the mirror, etc.   Haskins wasn't billed that way last year in DC and according to an Ohio State reporter that's not how he always rolled there either when he was a back up.  

 

If you listen to Shanny, he likes to say he'd never know for sure what type of player he drafted until they entered the locker room and he saw them prepare.  Gibbs has said similar things.   It's a variable that people on the board can never know one way or another since we aren't there seeing that unfold.  Only the coaches know.   And sometimes the beat guys will leak what's leaked to them on that front. 

 

I am not saying this is the book on Haskins but this is the book he clearly needs to escape.  According to some he's working it hard now.  And also sometimes the conversation gets twisted in discussion that Haskins is being accused of being lazy.  I don't think anyone accuses Haskins as lazy.  He probably works a lot harder than the average person.   But he's been billed by multiple people as a dude who doesn't have the workaholic traits that some believe you need to have if you desire to be a good-great QB in this league.

 

The Haskins work ethic has really gone viral.  It's national now before it seemed just local.  Even Bucky Brooks who worshipped Haskins pre-draft mentioned the work ethic tag that Haskins has now and specifically said for that reason, it might not be easy for him to get his job back if he loses it to Allen.  

 

Personally, I'd bet that Haskins pushes it and wins the job.  But it's tough to rule out Kyle having a shot to give him a run for his money mainly because he knows the system. 

[HTTRDynasty]

10 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

And Cousins beat him out. Was the primary back-up. Cousins did get benched during the season for poor play. That had nothing to do with McCoy specifically. In fact, the team went back to Griffin after that. McCoy only got any real time at the end of the season after the team burned through all the QBs and they all played poorly. Not all that dissimilar to Carolina playing Will Grier for a few games at the end of the year and "benching" Allen. Grier wasn't better, but the team figured why not?

 

But that still leaves the main point. If Haskins can't beat out Allen (and let's be honest here, if it's even remotely close Haskins will win), then something's gone really wrong. Allen is what, the 50th best QB in the NFL? It doesn't 100% mean Haskins will never be good, but the odds are really long at that point and I think at you are basically looking to the 2021 draft for another QB pick.

 

Cousins beat him out temporarily.  I said "long period of time" in my original post for a reason.  Kirk couldn't hold onto the job.  It doesn't matter if it "had nothing to do with McCoy specifically".  The coach thought McCoy was the better option, so he started him over Kirk.

 

It would be concerning if Haskins can't beat out Allen.  But context matters.  If he's not getting normal reps running the new plays due to the coronavirus situation, and Zampese isn't able to work on his mechanics this offseason, I would think most would have the sense to not just write him off.  

[HTTRDynasty]

 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

To me that depends on the context of how it went down.  Since Kirk seems part of the discussion, I'll use him as an example.  I recall multiple beat reporters early on about Kirk said the dude was always studying the playbook, they'd pass him by in the locker room and he was studying his IPAD, etc. 

 

Kirk talked about when he was benched in 2014 he hired a QB coach to work on what he was missing as a player -- and he was doing that in addition to the team practices.  He was obsessed and worked at it.  He's not alone.  Alex Smith is billed that way.  Russell Wilson.  Cam. And a lot of the good to great Qbs in the league. 

 

As for Haskins, he's not billed as a workaholic at least not in the past.  Kyle Allen talked about how he prepared every game like he would be the starter even if he wasn't slated to start.   How he'd memorize plays in front of the mirror, etc.   Haskins wasn't billed that way last year in DC and according to an Ohio State reporter that's not how he always rolled there either when he was a back up.  

 

If you listen to Shanny, he likes to say he'd never know for sure what type of player he drafted until they entered the locker room and he saw them prepare.  Gibbs has said similar things.   It's a variable that people on the board can never know one way or another since we aren't there seeing that unfold.  Only the coaches know.   And sometimes the beat guys will leak what's leaked to them on that front. 

 

I am not saying this is the book on Haskins but this is the book he clearly needs to escape.  According to some he's working it hard now.  And also sometimes the conversation gets twisted in discussion that Haskins is being accused of being lazy.  I don't think anyone accuses Haskins as lazy.  He probably works a lot harder than the average person.   But he's been billed by multiple people as a dude who doesn't have the workaholic traits that some believe you need to have if you desire to be a good-great QB in this league.

 

The Haskins work ethic has really gone viral.  It's national now before it seemed just local.  Even Bucky Brooks who worshipped Haskins pre-draft mentioned the work ethic tag that Haskins has now and specifically said for that reason, it might not be easy for him to get his job back if he loses it to Allen.  

 

Personally, I'd bet that Haskins pushes it and wins the job.  But it's tough to rule out Kyle having a shot to give him a run for his money mainly because he knows the system. 

 

Yeah, that is a label Haskins needs to shake.  He seems well on his way to doing that, but we'll see.  

 

However, I still wouldn't write him off and call him a "bad player" if he has trouble picking up the playbook this offseason, especially given the environment we're in.  Even Allen said he needed a lot of live reps to pick up this system.

[KDawg]

If Allen starts this season and Haskins doesn’t see the field much, you sell that Haskins is really improving and looking great, but you can’t take away the starting job from a guy who is playing well. Then you trade Haskins to the highest bidder because if he isn’t playing behind Allen there is a considerable problem and you need to get into the QB market again. 
 

I think Haskins beats Allen out and starts day 1. I’m not totally sold on that, but I think Haskins has to get on the field first. If he doesn’t, you have essentially thrown in the towel on the guy. He needs to lose the job before Allen can gain the job.

 

Downside there is that if Haskins plays poor enough in the first few outing and gets benched, his value is damaged. Positive is that if Haskins plays and plays well, we have the quarterback. 
 

Going to be interesting to see how this all goes down.

[Est.1974]

I think Allen beats Haskins out. In a disrupted offseason, Allen’s holdover knowledge of the system will give him too much of an edge over Haskins. 
 

However, without a starting TE, receiver to pair with Terry Mc and a LT who is likely to be aged closer to 40 than 30, it could be a challenge for either QB early doors.

 

 

[Jericho]

32 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Cousins beat him out temporarily.  I said "long period of time" in my original post for a reason.  Kirk couldn't hold onto the job.  It doesn't matter if it "had nothing to do with McCoy specifically".  The coach thought McCoy was the better option, so he started him over Kirk.

 

It would be concerning if Haskins can't beat out Allen.  But context matters.  If he's not getting normal reps running the new plays due to the coronavirus situation, and Zampese isn't able to work on his mechanics this offseason, I would think most would have the sense to not just write him off.  

 

Again, not sure what you mean by "Cousins beat him out temporarily". Cousins was the back-up QB. He had been for years prior. He was ahead of McCoy on the depth chart. He was ahead of McCoy during the offseason, during mini-camp, during training camp, and through much of the season. At best, Cousins, fell behind McCoy at the end of year. It seemed to be more of a situation of just try anything then McCoy actually being better, but I won't argue semantics if you want to say McCoy was better for those few weeks. At best McCoy beat him out temporarily, because by next season Cousins was the full-time undisputed starter. Basically Cousins repeatedly beat McCoy except for one month or two.

 

I'm not advocating cutting Haskins or anything. But if you draft a guy and he can't beat out mediocre back-ups after two years, I think you need to make alternative plans at the position.

[Jericho]

43 minutes ago, panahoo said:

I do say 50th is an exaggeration. He started 12 games for 1 of 32 teams in the NFL last year and by your own words "benched" for "why not". He may not be one of the 32 best. But I would certainly put him in the top 40.

 

I thought 50th place was generous. There are 32 teams in the NFL. Each team has a starter and a back-up QB. Being 50th means you are an average back-up. But simply starting NFL games is not indicative of skill. 57 different players started games last year. But they certainly aren't the 57 best QBs in the league. All it means is that the starter was injured or ineffective and you are better than the alternatives on your own team. There are many quality back-up QBs that simply don't play because the starter did not get hurt. Cracking the top 40 basically means you are a top notch NFL back-up. I don't think many people would share your opinion of Allen on that, since Allen has not proven anything to show he's that good.

[CommandB11]

18 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

I thought 50th place was generous. There are 32 teams in the NFL. Each team has a starter and a back-up QB. Being 50th means you are an average back-up. But simply starting NFL games is not indicative of skill. 57 different players started games last year. But they certainly aren't the 57 best QBs in the league. All it means is that the starter was injured or ineffective and you are better than the alternatives on your own team. There are many quality back-up QBs that simply don't play because the starter did not get hurt. Cracking the top 40 basically means you are a top notch NFL back-up. I don't think many people would share your opinion of Allen on that, since Allen has not proven anything to show he's that good.

And since I do think he is a top notch backup we must agree to disagree.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Yeah, that is a label Haskins needs to shake.  He seems well on his way to doing that, but we'll see.  

 

However, I still wouldn't write him off and call him a "bad player" if he has trouble picking up the playbook this offseason, especially given the environment we're in.  Even Allen said he needed a lot of live reps to pick up this system.

 

I think the likely reason why Brooks thinks the label can hurt him if he doesn't land the starting job is its not the easiest label to shake off. Will see if he does it.  I do think the outward praise on this front, and the Redskins social media showcasing some videos on it is to help him shake off that label and build his confidence.  Some would say players (or for that matter any worker) who can self-motivate -- that isn't something that typically comes and goes but its more of a personality trait.  So that's my personal pause about Haskins especially hearing an Ohio State sharing an angle on that same issue.  

 

Not saying Haskins can't overcome it.  He probably indeed shakes it off.  but I get why Keim and others have said they are jazzed about Haskins talent but aren't thinking slam dunk they got their QB for the future.  They want to see it unfold including his preparation.  

[Skinsinparadise]

PFF are wildly schizophrenic about Haskins.  On one count, they are leading the chorus that the Redskins would be fools not to take Tua and how on some metrics Haskins looks like a likely bust.  Then they also push the narrative that Haskins shows well on certain metrics and deserves a chance...

 

 

 

[Number 44]

3 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I thought 50th place was generous. There are 32 teams in the NFL. Each team has a starter and a back-up QB. Being 50th means you are an average back-up. But simply starting NFL games is not indicative of skill. 57 different players started games last year. But they certainly aren't the 57 best QBs in the league. All it means is that the starter was injured or ineffective and you are better than the alternatives on your own team. There are many quality back-up QBs that simply don't play because the starter did not get hurt. Cracking the top 40 basically means you are a top notch NFL back-up. I don't think many people would share your opinion of Allen on that, since Allen has not proven anything to show he's that good.

 

I think that it is fair to say that his familiarity and knowledge of our new system qualifies as making him a top notch back-up for the Redskins this particular season.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[joeken24]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Something about Micheal Robinson. Smh. Always seems to have a axe to grind with Haskins. I get what the rest of the guys are saying. But Robinson just strikes me as a guy I'd **** slap at some point. Just sayin. But I digress. Haskins is in a precarious situation. He had better be in his play book, off social media, doing what squared away players do. They are absolutely right about Ron being a old school coach. However, for me, I just want solid QB play to compliment what I hope to be a good defense. I could care less about the name on the back of the jersey.

[mojo]

D Hall seems to be trying to ‘hot take’ his way on the air and he hasn’t been right about anything.

[ExoDus84]

14 hours ago, Jericho said:

But that still leaves the main point. If Haskins can't beat out Allen (and let's be honest here, if it's even remotely close Haskins will win), then something's gone really wrong. Allen is what, the 50th best QB in the NFL? It doesn't 100% mean Haskins will never be good, but the odds are really long at that point and I think at you are basically looking to the 2021 draft for another QB pick.

 

Allen graded out far better than Haskins last year fwiw. Allen was 30th in QBR and Haskins was something like 50th. Haskins was also dead last in traditional QB rating for any QB with over 150 attempts. 

 

Let's just say both were not very good, but Haskins was especially putrid outside of the last two games. 

[volsmet]

Haskins was fine last year.