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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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Haskins potential is clear. Is he a sure thing? Hell no. But Tua suffered major injuries playing on a powerhouse team. How could anyone feel confident about him going forward in the NFL, where he will take way more hits just because the number of games alone?

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13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rivera must emerge with a franchise quarterback, either by determining it’s Haskins or selecting Tagovailoa

 

This part is just flat wrong. You don't reach, if they don't feel Haskins isn't the guy, then they shouldn't take Tagovoaila unless they're sure he's the guy. Otherwise, you wait until next year.

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38 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

It's simple, Todd. You take Chase Young. The difference between Haskins and Tua Tags is not Chase Young.

 

 

It's simple if that's how McShay saw it.  Based on listening to his podcasts, I don't think he does.  I've heard him enough to know he's not high on Haskins.

 

38 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

3. The Aaron Donald point, the last part there, unlocking Jared Goff...who had played 7 games...under an extremely conservative, out-dated coach...

 

I've never been big on the theory that so and so is on this team and they still haven't won.   So I agree with your point on Donald.  Though I do agree with PFF's point that QB trumps all.  

 

I am in the draft Chase Young camp albeit I am not in the camp of we got our stud franchise QB in house with almost complete certainty and we can chill and just embrace it.    I am undecided on Haskins.  But I am willing to roll the dice -- mainly because of Tua's injury history.  We talk about pushing the ball down field -- arguably no one has been better in recent years in college football as for the deep ball than Tua.  Even Bullock who practically worships Haskins admitted in his apples to apples analysis -- Tua has more consistent footwork, is more accurate and throws a better deep ball.    

 

Having said that, I'll trust whatever they end up thinking in house.   I am hoping the rosiest views of Haskins that some have on this thread prove correct.  I agree he has potential but for me I'd like to see one more round of that movie before pumping my fist about him. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's simple if that's how McShay saw it.  Based on listening to his podcasts, I don't think he does.  I've heard him enough to know he's not high on Haskins.

 

I've never been big on the theory that so and so is on this team and they still haven't won.   So I agree with your point on Donald.  Though I do agree with PFF's point that QB trumps all.  

 

I am in the draft Chase Young camp albeit I am not in the camp of we got out stud franchise QB in house and we can chill and just embrace it.    I am undecided on Haskins.  But I am willing to roll the dice -- mainly because of Tua's injury history.  We talk about pushing the ball down field -- arguably no one has been better in recent years in college football as for the deep than Tua.  Even Bullock who practically worships Haskins admitted in his apples to apples analysis -- Tua has more consistent footwork, is more accurate and throws a better deep ball.    

 

Having said that, I'll trust whatever they end up thinking in house.   I am hoping the rosiest views of Haskins that some have on this thread prove correct.  I agree he has potential but for me I'd like to see one more round of that movie before pumping my fist about him. 

 

Maybe it's just me--I generally disregard 90% of what ESPN says (especially after McShay and Stephen A Smith go on about how Snyder is still interfering--and CHRIS RUSSELL of all people debunks it).

 

I liked Bullock's analysis--what I found encouraging was Haskins ability to read defenses. Couple Tua Tag's inability to do that, with his injury history, is scary for me. Most of Haskins issues,  I believe are fixable--and by all accounts he's putting in the work. I like Haskins, but he is unproven. I think he's done enough to earn another year under a legitimate staff--which is why I found the Goff comparison rather apropos. 

 

If Tua Tags injury history was different, I might feel different, but there's that word again "if." Fact is, it's not. He has a rather lengthy injury history. He can have all the talent in the world, but it's useless if he isn't on the field.

 

I take Young, see what Haskins has next year, then sort it out.

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19 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Maybe it's just me--I generally disregard 90% of what ESPN says (especially after McShay and Stephen A Smith go on about how Snyder is still interfering--and CHRIS RUSSELL of all people debunks it).

 

I don't disregard it.  But it's just opinion.    Kiper and McShay aren't talking for ESPN but just their own draft takes.  McShay in the quote I put up there was being polite by his own standards because on his podcasts he has made the point that Haskins has bust potential and termed his first year "a near disaster".   He also loves Tua.  So that's why I don't think he personally would see Haskins + Young > Tua.  Reason being he has Haskins being a bust as on the table.   Though he loves Chase.  Whether he's right or wrong, is a different conversation. 

 

I am somewhat open to both the positive and negative takes on Haskins because I am somewhat undecided on him.  I lean positive on his talent and lean negative on the intangibles.  But I see things trending positive this off season so I like that.  So on a scale of 0-10 (0 = bust, 10 = stud) on Haskins.  I am probably at a 6 on him right now.

 

19 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I liked Bullock's analysis--what I found encouraging was Haskins ability to read defenses. Couple Tua Tag's inability to do that, with his injury history, is scary for me. Most of Haskins issues,  I believe are fixable--and by all accounts he's putting in the work. I like Haskins, but he is unproven. I think he's done enough to earn another year under a legitimate staff--which is why I found the Goff comparison rather apropos. 

 

 

I like Bullock.  My only issue with him is the same i have with other analysts which is they double down on their favorite players pre-draft through thick and thin.  We all do that to an extent.  But yeah going through his apples to apples comparison with Tua and Haskins if I recall correctly his points included:  Tua is more accurate.  Tua has better footwork and thus is more accurate throwing on the move, Tua has the better deep ball.  Haskins according to him is better at setting protections.  The irony about that was according to people covering the team -- the protections was what Haskins was struggling on in camp and earlier on in the season but that is something younger Qbs eventually tend to get a hang off and Haskins improved on over time.  So if that's Haskins thing over Tua, Tua probably catches up at some point. 

 

19 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

 

If Tua Tags injury history was different, I might feel different, but there's that word again "if." Fact is, it's not. He has a rather lengthy injury history. He can have all the talent in the world, but it's useless if he isn't on the field.

 

I take Young, see what Haskins has next year, then sort it out.

 

 

I am in the same place or close enough.  If Tua was healthy, I do agree with both Kiper and McShay that it would be a no brainer to take him at #2.  But the injury history has me pausing for sure. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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54 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

He did that all throughout the year and even in pre-season. He would often make the more difficult throw and push things up the field and even make the harder choice in the red zone. He doesn't just want to win, he literally wants to shred a defense and punk them if he can. If he can make a strike in the end-zone by looking off a safety and firing the ball into a tight window he will take it over a check-down walk-in score. I remember a touchdown to steven sims where he did exactly that.

 

I vaguely remember a segment comparing the rookie qb's after pre-season and it had Haskins leading by far in the amount of difficult throw attempts or whatever the hell they called it. I wish I could track that down somehow.

 

Yeah, here's where Haskins ranked in the following QB metrics last season:

 

Aggressiveness % (i.e. tight-window throws): 2nd (behind Stafford)

 

Average Intended Air Yards: 10th (behind Stafford, Winston, Tannehill, Wilson, Allen, Prescott, Fitzpatrick, Rodgers and Jackson)

 

Drop %: 3rd (behind Bridgewater and Allen)

 

Play-action passes per attempt: 20th (his was 22%... Lamar Jackson was 1st at 41%)

 

PFF Rookie Rank: 2nd (behind Minshew)

 

With his natural aggressive mindset, I'm really excited to see what Haskins can do with a legitimate QB coach and an OC who ranked among the highest in the league in play-action usage.

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am probably at a 6 on him right now.

 

I think that's fair, and about as high as anyone should be right now. I am really encouraged by his effort and time he's putting in--I think that pushes the needle towards Young even moreso. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Guys like McShay clearly didn't watch the latter part of the season when it comes to Haskins. 

 

I have a hard time taking McShay seriously.  I remember hearing a few years ago that McShay is considered a "party boy" and barely puts in the work, especially compared to the work a guy like Mayock or Jeremiah puts in - apparently, he has a group of interns doing the majority of the analysis and rankings for him.  I very much doubt he watched many of Haskins' snaps last year.

 

Kiper is just a clown - period.  He shouldn't even be on air right now after saying he'd quit if Jimmy Clausen didn't become a franchise QB.

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14 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Here's his 3-round mock draft, where he plays GM, and each team would receive an "A" grade from him: https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insider/story/_/id/26464701/mcshay-best-case-three-round-nfl-mock-draft-how-all-32-teams-get-a

 

This was right before the draft.  He seems pretty high on Haskins to me.

 

New York Giants

Round 1 (6): Dwayne Haskins, QB, Ohio State

Round 1 (17): Brian Burns, DE/OLB, Florida State

Round 2 (37): Tytus Howard, OT, Alabama State

Round 3 (95): Mack Wilson, ILB, Alabama

 

The Giants have a lot of needs, but everything starts at quarterback. Haskins is the purest passer in the draft, so that's a no-brainer for me at No. 6 overall. If Haskins is there, I'm taking him.

 

 

 

Edited by HTTRDynasty
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4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Here's his 3-round mock draft, where he plays GM, and each team would receive an "A" grade from him: https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insider/story/_/id/26464701/mcshay-best-case-three-round-nfl-mock-draft-how-all-32-teams-get-a

 

This was right before the draft.  He seems pretty high on Haskins to me.

 

New York Giants

Round 1 (6): Dwayne Haskins, QB, Ohio State

Round 1 (17): Brian Burns, DE/OLB, Florida State

Round 2 (37): Tytus Howard, OT, Alabama State

Round 3 (95): Mack Wilson, ILB, Alabama

 

The Giants have a lot of needs, but everything starts at quarterback. Haskins is the purest passer in the draft, so that's a no-brainer for me at No. 6 overall. If Haskins is there, I'm taking him.

 

 

 

 

Drew Lock, 10th over all...under Joe "I'm not teaching anyone ****" Flacco's tutelage.

 

Round 1 (10): Drew Lock, QB, Missouri
Round 2 (41): Deebo Samuel, WR, South Carolina
Round 3 (71): Nate Davis, OT/G, Charlotte

Based on how the first nine picks went, I'm taking Lock here. Develop the mobile gunslinger under Joe Flacco's tutelage before you let him shred defenses by throwing bullets at his new slot receiver. Once Samuel has the ball in his hands, it's tough to tackle him. Davis, the Broncos' third-rounder, makes up for the loss of Billy Turner on the offensive line.

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21 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Drew Lock, 10th over all...under Joe "I'm not teaching anyone ****" Flacco's tutelage.

 

Round 1 (10): Drew Lock, QB, Missouri
Round 2 (41): Deebo Samuel, WR, South Carolina
Round 3 (71): Nate Davis, OT/G, Charlotte

 

Based on how the first nine picks went, I'm taking Lock here. Develop the mobile gunslinger under Joe Flacco's tutelage before you let him shred defenses by throwing bullets at his new slot receiver. Once Samuel has the ball in his hands, it's tough to tackle him. Davis, the Broncos' third-rounder, makes up for the loss of Billy Turner on the offensive line.

 

Well, he wasn't high on the QBs last year. And Haskins had the best arm of the crew, and looked the most like a NFL quarterback.

 

But the QBs last year weren't exactly lighting the world on fire.

 

I don't think that means he was high on him. But he was high enough on him to believe he should be the best QB off the board. Haskins, in my opinion, has the highest ceiling of all of the quarterbacks in last year's draft. But his floor is fairly low coupled with the expectations that came with his stats/prototypical look. 

 

We'll see what happens, but I think people are a bit too harsh on McShay around here.

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

This part is just flat wrong. You don't reach, if they don't feel Haskins isn't the guy, then they shouldn't take Tagovoaila unless they're sure he's the guy. Otherwise, you wait until next year.

 

Maybe I read it wrong, but I think he means that if he leaves the draft without taking a QB, Rivera believes Haskins IS the franchise quarterback. Thus he emerged with him. 

 

I'm not sure you can argue with that logic. You need a guy that can hold down your franchise, especially in his rookie deal. It's imperative. 

 

To be successful this season, they need the guy that they feel is the franchise guy.

 

If this season bombs... well... Trevor Lawrence is the light at the end of the tunnel most likely. But I'm not sure it's going to bomb enough for that to happen. Then again, I thought our floor was 5-11 last year... I was wrong :ols:

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5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Maybe I read it wrong, but I think he means that if he leaves the draft without taking a QB, Rivera believes Haskins IS the franchise quarterback. Thus he emerged with him. 

 

Or he doesn't believe the others are. If they don't believe Tua can stay on the field--or don't believe he is the guy, but don't believe Haskins, why would they waste the pick to just take a QB?

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Just now, Riggo#44 said:

 

Or he doesn't believe the others are. If they don't believe Tua can stay on the field--or don't believe he is the guy, but don't believe Haskins, why would they waste the pick to just take a QB?

 

Sure. I'm not sure myself (as we all know). But if you leave this FA period and draft without a guy to compete with Haskins, you're handing him the reigns, saying you're the guy, and seeing what happens. At that point, it's Haskins job to lose. It's absolutely 100% in his control on what the team does for his "junior" year. 

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7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We'll see what happens, but I think people are a bit too harsh on McShay around here.

 

His mock draft was terrible, he had Drew Luck 10th over all and said that Flacco would tutor him--when Flacco was quoted saying the exact opposite. He had Jones going 26th? 27th? I think people are fair to McShay.

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Sure. I'm not sure myself (as we all know). But if you leave this FA period and draft without a guy to compete with Haskins, you're handing him the reigns, saying you're the guy, and seeing what happens. At that point, it's Haskins job to lose. It's absolutely 100% in his control on what the team does for his "junior" year. 

 

What does that have to do with leaving this offseason with a Franchise QB?

 

He'll bring in someone to compete with Haskins (Mariota, Moore, etc.) I love the fact that Rivera is making people earn it--far too often these last 20 years the "favorite" has gotten the job--and there have been better options.

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3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

His mock draft was terrible, he had Drew Luck 10th over all and said that Flacco would tutor him--when Flacco was quoted saying the exact opposite. He had Jones going 26th? 27th? I think people are fair to McShay.

 

What does that have to do with leaving this offseason with a Franchise QB?

 

He'll bring in someone to compete with Haskins (Mariota, Moore, etc.) I love the fact that Rivera is making people earn it--far too often these last 20 years the "favorite" has gotten the job--and there have been better options.


I haven’t seen anyone mock a good draft, to be honest :ols:

 

And he’s giving him the chance to be the franchise guy... so that’s the franchise.

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Tua to Washington? ‘I Don’t Think Dan Snyder Would Want That . . . ’

One source familiar with the team says the Tua rumors are just a lot of smoke. Plus, what scouts think of a small-school tight end who shined at a pro day, and how coronavirus is affecting the draft process.
 
  •  

At the NFL scouting combine, Washington head coach Ron Rivera told reporters that all options are on the table with the second overall pick, and that the team will bring in quarterbacks Tua Tagovailoa and Joe Burrow for meetings and private workouts.

At the combine, Washington also formally interviewed Tagovailoa and Burrow, the presumed top pick in the draft. When asked if it was just due diligence, Rivera specifically shot down that suggestion. “No," the coach said. "Talking to Tua is you talk to Tua, which I’ve had an opportunity to."

 

Rivera’s public admission that the team is putting in work on quarterbacks introduced an important wrinkle to the 2020 draft. A year after taking Dwayne Haskins 15th overall, will Washington pull an Arizona Cardinals and draft another quarterback high in Round 1 because they have a new head coach in charge?

 

“I don’t think [Washington owner] Dan [Snyder] would want that,” says a source familiar with the organization’s thinking. “He wants to give Haskins the opportunity and I think Dan is infatuated with [Ohio State defensive end] Chase Young.”

When Washington selected Haskins last year, many in league circles viewed it as a pick orchestrated by Snyder, and this source says that characterization is not overblown. Snyder wanted Haskins as his team’s quarterback. The single-season starter from Ohio State is a Maryland native and went to the same private high school in Potomac as Snyder’s son. Last season as a rookie, Haskins showed growth despite Snyder firing head coach Jay Gruden after an 0-5 start.

 

...“I don’t buy that,” the source says. “It makes for a nice offseason to just say, Hey, this is coach-centric and all that … I know that it is still Dan’s team. I know what he wanted to do with Haskins and I know what he wants to do with Young so I don't see that changing. I would be shocked if they did anything different at quarterback.”

 

Former Giants exec Marc Ross echoes that doubt. “We’ll see it when it really happens,” Ross says. “It’s one thing to talk about it, but how many times have we heard this? It’s the same thing with Cleveland. We rinse and repeat and it’s the same. I don’t think you can say that he is going to give up all his say and control.”

 

...So if Snyder really is locked in on Haskins, the team might just be covering their bases with Tagovailoa to make sure they know the ins and outs of all their options. They could also be trying to increase the value of the pick for trade purposes, or trying to send Haskins a message.

 

Haskins is active on social media, and he is not oblivious to the quarterback rumors surrounding his team. The interest in Tagovailoa and Burrow might serve as a motivational kick for the young quarterback. Rivera said Haskins has been in the building a lot offseason, and another source close to the team says Haskins is working hard and doing all the right things.

 

On the flip side, several scouts across the league said that they think Washington might really pick Tagovailoa, and they wouldn’t be surprised either way considering the precedent set when Arizona took Kyler Murray No. 1 overall just a year after drafting Josh Rosen 10th overall. Two scouts said they’d do the same thing if they were in Washington’s position because they view Tagovailoa as an upgrade over Haskins, even though Tagovailoa may not be a Day One starter because of his hip injury.

 

So far, all reports of Tagovailoa’s medical status have been positive. This week he was cleared for some football activity and he expects to hold a pro day for teams in April. Tagovailoa did not work out at the combine, but several scouts mentioned they were surprised by how spry he looked (they noticed him bouncing up the stairs en route to his weigh in).

 

Rivera has said some nice things about Haskins and his progression as he got more starting experience last season, but he hasn’t made any definitive statement that Haskins will be the team’s starter. Regardless of Rivera’s opinion, it seems like Haskins has the support of the owner, and the decision may come down to the function of the new power structure.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/11/source-says-washington-interest-in-tua-a-smokescreen?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com

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I honestly don't care about peoples' opinions of Haskins based on what we saw last year. The team was in complete disarray from coaching down to talent. I think it's vital to see what Dwayne can do this year with a competent coach, an OL with more cohesion, a receiving squad with an additional year of seasoning, a reliable TE and a (hopefully) healthy run game. 

 

IMO every year there's ALWAYS going to be a QB or two that could potential thrive depending on how well they fit the situation. Only TRUE elite QBs can thrive in any situation and I don't see any of this year's crop being that guy. No offense to them, they're good but not "generational".

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47 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Here's his 3-round mock draft, where he plays GM, and each team would receive an "A" grade from him: https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insider/story/_/id/26464701/mcshay-best-case-three-round-nfl-mock-draft-how-all-32-teams-get-a

 

This was right before the draft.  He seems pretty high on Haskins to me.

 

 

 

2 things on that.  McShay and Kiper's mantra is their mocks are about what they are hearing much more so then what are their favorite players in the draft with an occasional exception.  2nd point is that McShay might have changed his mind on Haskins post draft?  If you listen to the McShay-Kiper podcasts, they had 2 podcasts in particular where there was no ambiguity especially about what Mcshay felt about Haskins and yeah there was no nuance on the point that McShay wasn't high on Haskins after this season.  

 

I wouldn't put McShay in the camp of some here of hey Haskins played well in the last 2 games, the future is only bright for the dude.  My quote from McShay about Haskins' season was a "near disaster" was a direct quote.  I recall the disaster word for sure.  Maybe he said almost versus near.  But in short he was very down on Haskins' season and said he had a higher grade on Tua now then he did on Haskins predraft. 

 

As for whether that matters -- I agree it doesn't.  I was just commenting on why Mcshay might not feel that Young + Haskins > Tua. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

says a source familiar with the organization’s thinking.

 

I really dislike quotes like this. Who is the source? Rick Snider will say he is familiar with the organization's thinking--doesn't mean his opinion matters more than a bag of dog**** to me...

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My quote from McShay about Haskins' season was a "near disaster" was a direct quote.

 

This is why this quote doesn't matter a bit to me--Kiper and McShay are standard ESPN--sound bites and face time, accuracy and fact-telling be damned.

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1 minute ago, OldSkinsGuy said:

The thing is, how confident is Rivera on Haskins?  From the recent posts I've read, it seems as if Ron isn't sold on him and may look to bring a veteran in.  Any thoughts on this?

 

This could be misleading as well cause they have to bring someone in.  We only have haskins on the roster right now.   Could be nothing more than that.

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3 minutes ago, OldSkinsGuy said:

The thing is, how confident is Rivera on Haskins?  From the recent posts I've read, it seems as if Ron isn't sold on him and may look to bring a veteran in.  Any thoughts on this?

I still think it's a smokescreen for Tua but naturally, until you know 100% what you have you still want someone you trust to back him up. 

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

2 things on that.  McShay and Kiper's mantra is their mocks are about what they are hearing much more so then what are their favorite players in the draft with an occasional exception. 

 

Your'e talking about a regular mock draft.  The mock I linked to was the one he posts regarding what he would do as the decision maker.  Those were his personal thoughts on Haskins at the time, not what he was hearing from teams.

 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

2nd point is that McShay might have changed his mind on Haskins post draft? 

 

He may have.  But I don't buy that it was from watching a significant amount of film (especially given the work ethic rumors I've heard about McShay.).  I think it's much more likely he took a cursory look at his traditional QB stats and soured on him from that.

 

For example, I can imagine his thinking went something like: 3rd worst completion % in the league?  "Man, Haskins was a near disaster".  Without taking into account the drops, tight-window throws and intended air yards that all helped lead to a lower completion percentage than average.

 

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for whether that matters -- I agree it doesn't.  I was just commenting on why Mcshay might not feel that Young + Haskins > Tua. 

 

I get it.  And I'm sure you respect McShay's opinion much more than I do. 

 

 

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  • TK changed the title to FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State
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