FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

I dont believe that at all. He is fortunate enough to have landed with a group determined to make him successful in whatever way they can. And that group happens to have the means, knowledge and leadership in place to do it. But hes not a once in a lifetime or even decade athlete imo. I see all the amazing stuff he can do with his body, but the only thing that really makes him different than Griffin is his ability to take a hit which is probably attributed to his flexibility. Watch and see. If he stays successful, you will without a doubt see more kids with his athletic make up playing that position. Hell hes not much different than many of the cats that came before him. But there definitely will be cats like him who will be told they need to play receiver or RB. If some of those kids are lucky, and find good leadership, he will 100% not be the last guy this decade to do what hes doing. 

 

The difference between him and Griffin is that he is elusive in the open field. Griffin was just straight line fast. Vick had wiggle but not like Lamar 

 

He won’t do this every season but long as he stays healthy, he’s the most dangerous weapon in the league 

[wit33]

18 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

The difference between him and Griffin is that he is elusive in the open field. Griffin was just straight line fast. Vick had wiggle but not like Lamar 

 

He won’t do this every season but long as he stays healthy, he’s the most dangerous weapon in the league 

You must go into the box of all time great RBs or WRs to compare his running ability to, that’s the difference and why he can be considered a unique never before seen type talent. Griffin was special because of his ability to capture the edge with his straight line speed, truly special and what separated him from other mobile guys in his day (Kap and Wilson). With Jackson you can call a QB run plays that attack all gaps of a defense. Wild. 
 

He will inspire youngsters destine to dominate as WRs or RBs to play QB and the NFL see more guys like Jackson at the QB spot in the coming years. 

[London Kev]

12 hours ago, sportjunkie07 said:

 

those guys on Baltimore are exactly that, just regular guys.

 

Lamar Jackson’s ability coupled with a coaching staff scheming around that is 100% why they are having success. The other pieces there are replaceable. It looks easy for the rest of the team because Lamar Jackson has protected the football in the passing game and just broke the qb rushing record. That’s it.

 

 

Yeah, the coaching staff (especially Greg Roman) deserve a massive amount of credit for Lamar's success. He obviously has talent, but Roman spent the off season designing an offensive scheme that complements those talents and the results are there for all to see. Lamar broke Vick's QB rushing record last night with two games to go, and the Ravens look unstoppable.

[profusion]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

He will inspire youngsters destine to dominate as WRs or RBs to play QB and the NFL see more guys like Jackson at the QB spot in the coming years. 

 

Thing is, Lamar is basically the size of a TE and yet can run like that. The prototypical RB is too short, and the prototypical WR is too frail to play QB like Lamar. That's why I think he's almost one of a kind. I'm sure there'll be others like him in the future, but not at the moment.

[Thinking Skins]

So this is an interesting piece

 

Caleb Wilson:
The Redskins signed TE Caleb Wilson off Arizona’s practice squad. He was Mr. Irrelevant in the 2019 draft.

— John Keim (@john_keim) December 13, 2019

 

Caleb Wilson is a guy I wanted in the draft or UDFAs. He ran a 4.56 40 yard dash. I'm not sure how well he can catch or run routes but with that speed he can probably create separation from LBs and be a threat to help Haskins underneath. He has 965 yards receiving at UCLA last year. 

 

In contrast Sprinkle ran a 4.69 40 yard dash and Hentges ran a 4.8 40 yard dash. 

 

I still have my doubts that he is active Sunday or plays a significant number of plays, but if he can help with Haskins, i like him as a potential TE of the future. 

 

[SoCalSkins]

Caleb Wilson is a stud. I watched every game of his at UCLA. He originally went to USC where his dad was an assistant coach and former NFL player. Once his dad was fired he transferred to UCLA. He had a great year under Rosen before getting hurt. Dude can catch. I called him the UCLA Jordan Reed. His QB situation sucked last year, otherwise he would have been drafted much higher.

[Llevron]

28 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

Thing is, Lamar is basically the size of a TE and yet can run like that. The prototypical RB is too short, and the prototypical WR is too frail to play QB like Lamar. That's why I think he's almost one of a kind. I'm sure there'll be others like him in the future, but not at the moment.

 

Average shooting guard is his height and can move like he can. I mean you are right, he puts it all together in a magnificent way so im really not trying to take it away from him. I just think hes the first guy to have the support to do it like he can do it. I hope im right. Hes so much fun to watch, and I still feel like what he is doing should be "our" thing here in DC. But thats a whole other bag 

 

If I didnt love the Redskins so much I would be a Bmore fan as long as hes playing. Hes that good. 

[wit33]

46 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

Thing is, Lamar is basically the size of a TE and yet can run like that. The prototypical RB is too short, and the prototypical WR is too frail to play QB like Lamar. That's why I think he's almost one of a kind. I'm sure there'll be others like him in the future, but not at the moment.

Unique talent for sure, but he goes all of 210 pounds or so. Not close to a TE size, that’s more in mold of a Cam Newton. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Long as he’s healthy, Skins fans will eventually becomes a minority in this region. Clustered in DC and parts of VA. Lamar Jackson already might be the biggest star in the area. Pretty easily too. 

[Thinking Skins]

45 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Caleb Wilson is a stud. I watched every game of his at UCLA. He originally went to USC where his dad was an assistant coach and former NFL player. Once his dad was fired he transferred to UCLA. He had a great year under Rosen before getting hurt. Dude can catch. I called him the UCLA Jordan Reed. His QB situation sucked last year, otherwise he would have been drafted much higher.

 

Yeah thats what I thought too (watching no film just going off scouting reports), but I have to wonder why (a) he was Mr. Irrelevant, and b, why he hasn't been on a roster yet this year. Just looking at those two questions and the fact that he's joining us this late in the year (and week) I have to think he's inactive again. But if he can be active and get some plays I think he could be an outlet for us. 

 

I really like this pickup and think it can be a gem of the future like Foster, Betts, some of the OL, some other points. But i hear arguments about how we're not addressing the TE position. This is another good shot at it and hopefully he can stay healthy and we keep him into the offseason because I think he can be a gem. 

[Mr. Sinister]

It's not gonna last. Plain and simple.

[profusion]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Unique talent for sure, but he goes all of 210 pounds or so. Not close to a TE size, that’s more in mold of a Cam Newton. 

 

He looks bigger, maybe because he's tall. I stand corrected, then.

 

Either way, Haskins is basically a statue compared to Lamar, so we're dealing with a traditional NFL offense for the foreseeable future, I'm guessing.

[joeken24]

To me Jackson is unstoppable.

 

But I'd definitely place Haskins in the mode of a Cam from a standpoint of size (although Cam is a tad bigger). I believe as the maturation increases for Haskins in the offense and he gains more time taking care of his body, we'll see a QB that will have to command a defensive adjustment which is all you want. Haskins has said, he'd like to run his game like Warren Moon who in my opinion is top three all time. Warren Moon spent 6 years in the CFL (because of the stigma most black QBs have to deal with) before even entering the league and is still 11th all time in passing yardage after 20 years of a wide open offensive happy league. That's a good QB to emulate. Lets hope he works out to be the first franchise QB the Redskins have had in 30 years.

[RandyHolt]

It seems really difficult to be a pure pocket passer in the modern era.  Its too easy for defenses to just tee off on him.

 

We saw Brady scramble for 16 yards the other week. Rodgers took off vs us.   Tribinsky in the doghouse a lot of the year seems to have started running more and suddenly is getting mentions of being fantasy viable.  It doesn't matter that Josh Allen cannot pass. The Bills are 9-4. We see Fitzmagic randomly lowering the shoulder and leading his team to wins.

 

Me thinks Haskins will have to run more sooner than later to overcome his inexperience, if he expects to play through his development and win at the same time.  The modern game seems to require not just mobility to elude blitzers, it requires coaches to embrace all strengths a QB may provide.

 

While I don't want him to get clobbered I recognize the most dangerous QBs in the game use their legs an awful lot, after being told being a pure pocket passer is required for long term success.  Plus, QBs get clobbered in the pocket so pick your poison on taking hits. Using ones legs almost seems to ensure a longer career for many QBs. We all saw RG3 running on thursday night and taking shots lol. Josh Johnson ironically didn't run much when he was young and got jettisoned, but does now and takes calls from NFL teams still. His legs even got US a win, which speaks volumes with the decimated OL we had.

 

I have heard Haskins has a great ball fake running the read option but the fake only goes so far if he never runs. And Callahan never calls it IIRC so its a bit of a non starter.

[mistertim]

8 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

It's not gonna last. Plain and simple.

 

Yeah I think the same. He's a guy the size of a WR (6'2 210) who hits holes and gaps that traditional RBs do. It's only a matter of time IMO. Electric to watch right now but I see very little chance that he stays healthy for long playing this way. 

[wit33]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I think the same. He's a guy the size of a WR (6'2 210) who hits holes and gaps that traditional RBs do. It's only a matter of time IMO. Electric to watch right now but I see very little chance that he stays healthy for long playing this way. 

The Ravens have advanced past this line of thinking and have two guys with elite QB speed backing him up. Of course he’ll get injured at some point, but have a plan and go all in on the philosophy. The backup will not be Jackson, but has similar abilities to allow to continue to roll with the same approach. What a concept lol

[Llevron]

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

The Ravens have advanced past this line of thinking and have two guys with elite QB speed backing him up. Of course he’ll get injured at some point, but have a plan and go all in on the philosophy. The backup will not be Jackson, but has similar abilities to allow to continue to roll with the same approach. What a concept lol

 

Sometimes they even put all three on the field at once and it’s scary. It’s college! Who woulda thunk it possible? 

[Going Commando]

17 hours ago, wit33 said:

Unique talent for sure, but he goes all of 210 pounds or so. Not close to a TE size, that’s more in mold of a Cam Newton. 

 

Yeah.  He's slender, especially in the legs.  He's the same height as RGIII but RGIII was bulkier and had thicker legs given his background as a hurdler.

 

Jackson is like a taller Vick who came along in a shotgun era where the field is much better spaced and a coach was willing and able to design his offense around his running ability.  Whole zone read nd RPO game Vick never had to run with.  Fairly simplistic one and two read passing game concepts and moving pockets designed to cut the field down for Jackson and give him quicker run reads and take advantage of his special ability to rapidly reset his feet and throw from different spots, as well as throw on the run.

 

The problem with his system is the same as every super run heavy system.  You can't come back from big deficits with it. That's why they lost to Cleveland and Kansas City.  Everything is clicking for their offense and defense this year.  But there will be more years than not where that's not the case and Jackson will eventually have to run a more versatile and complex passing offense to have long term success.  More and more of his rushing yardage will come from scrambles.  More and more of his passing yardage will come outside the numbers.  That's the way these types of players evolve.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KDawg]

The Ravens did absolutely revamp everything. And without the right personnel that is a huge gamble. 
 

Except... they can run the same offense if Jackson goes down. Will they be as effective?  Very likely not, but they have Griffin behind him who can still do a lot of the same things. 
 

As far as Jackson goes, the guy is superb. He’s not a prototypical QB by any stretch... but his legs open the pass in incredible fashion. And some people knocking his ability to throw are the same who are defending Haskins ability to throw. Hint: Jackson isn’t Drew Brees, but he’s better at the throwing thing than Haskins.

[wit33]

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Jackson is like a taller Vick who came along in a shotgun era where the field is much better spaced and a coach was willing and able to design his offense around his running ability.  Whole zone read nd RPO game Vick never had to run with.  Fairly simplistic one and two read passing game concepts and moving pockets designed to cut the field down for Jackson and give him quicker run reads and take advantage of his special ability to rapidly reset his feet and throw from different spots, as well as throw on the run.

 

Supremely athletically gifted players make scheming easier, the NFL is finding out this is true for the QB. It’s not that traditional ways are done, but other ways are available for franchises to get value out of the QB position. At the present day, the Ravens are way ahead of the curve and will benefit from having a historic run game for next few years while others attempt to keep up. Of course, the NFL defenses will get better with scheming against it, but that’s true for any offense. 
 

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The problem with his system is the same as every super run heavy system.  You can't come back from big deficits with it. That's why they lost to Cleveland and Kansas City.  Everything is clicking for their offense and defense this year.  But there will be more years than not where that's not the case and Jackson will eventually have to run a more versatile and complex passing offense to have long term success.  More and more of his rushing yardage will come from scrambles.  More and more of his passing yardage will come outside the numbers.  That's the way these types of players evolve.

 

I disagree that that the dual threat QB can’t come back from large deficits, as there’s proof otherwise. Admittedly, I’m pulling from memory only and don’t have a full spectrum of knowledge/numbers to compare dual threat run systems versus traditional systems, but my guess is all systems struggle when down “big”. Lamar brought the Ravens back agains Chiefs this year, I think he led team to 17 points in 4th quarter. Last year after a dreadful first 3 quarters Jackson had team with a chance to win against Chargers in the 4th. Kap and the Niners came back from a big deficit in the SB. Fully acknowledge I’m pulling from only a few examples, not sure if they’re exceptions or not.
 

Definitely agree the ceiling hasn’t been scratched for Jackson and Ravens and the hope would be to have more overall balance, but as is, it will have the them in SB contention for next few years. 
 

All systems have strengths and weaknesses. For example, an efficient passing team may struggle to close teams out with clock killing drives when front running. 

[Redskins Reparations]

On 12/13/2019 at 1:27 PM, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Lamar Jackson already might be the biggest star in the area. Pretty easily too. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I’d die for Alexander Ovechkin. Honestly I probably would. No one has brought me more joy. 
 

but there is no comparison between a hockey player and football player in terms of popularity 

[Redskins Reparations]

12 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I’d die for Alexander Ovechkin. Honestly I probably would. No one has brought me more joy. 
 

but there is no comparison between a hockey player and football player in terms of popularity 

I understand football rules in terms of overall popularity but in my opinion Ovechkin wears the crown in the nations capital.  

[Veryoldschool]

On 12/13/2019 at 11:02 AM, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

The difference between him and Griffin is that he is elusive in the open field. Griffin was just straight line fast. Vick had wiggle but not like Lamar 

 

He won’t do this every season but long as he stays healthy, he’s the most dangerous weapon in the league 

 

Griffin had great lateral quickness before his 2012 injury.  He didn't seem to have it in 2013-2014 after his surgery.

 

Jackson seems to have everything Griffin had plus a bigger and hopefully more durable body.  

 

It would be interesting to see a team acquire 3 dual threat QBs and rotate 2 each game to keep them fresh.  I don't think having 1 like Jackson is a multi-year strategy because they get beat up and Jackson may not even make to through the playoffs in 1 season but I'm curious what a team could do if they keep 3 and rotated playing 2 each game.  Colleges turn out a lot of these guys, obviously not a gifted as Jackson, but a lot dual threat QBs so it might be easier and cheaper to find and maintain 3 dual threats QBs that you use in a rotation that are effective rather than search endlessly for 1 classic drop back guy.

 

I haven't been a fan of dual threat guys because a QB needs to be healthier to be effective but there is no disputing the effectiveness of 1 when they are healthy.  I think it would pay a team to try using a rotation of them to get the benefits with some of the downside risk mitigated because you are not depending on 1 of them.