FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[skinny21]

I have hope for Haskins in part because of the baseline things:

He goes through reads - we’ve all seen qbs (especially inexperienced ones) lock onto receivers, or coaches solely giving them 1/2 field reads.  
He can stand tall in the pocket - he isn’t usually spooked by the first sign of pressure.

He can move around in the pocket and throw on the move - plenty of qbs just have no feel for pressure and/or move into said pressure.  
He’s for high end arm talent. 
Game situation (down two scores, for example) usually doesn’t cause him to force things.  
He seems open to coaching/advice - maybe a mixed bag here, I don’t know, but his relationship with Smith is encouraging.  Working on protections is another example (nothing groundbreaking here, I mean, it’s the norm after all, but still a positive).  
He seems willing to work on weaknesses - working on syncing his feet to his upper body for example.  
Generally keeps his eyes downfield when pressured.  
He’s confident.  
Had a good size for the position.  
Trimmed down a bit and seems much lighter on his feet than he did in college.  
Not afraid of tight window throws.  
Seems like he’s trying to shut out the noise and doesn’t seem the type that will get in trouble with the law.  

Now, on one hand, that’s a nice list of positives, yet a number of those are (as I said) some baseline things you expect from any qb.  
 

The negatives are piled up as well - touch on certain throws, throwing with anticipation, mechanics, getting his protections right, not taking the easy stuff often enough, and of course all of the reports regarding preparation, indifference, handling the media/criticism, etc.  

 

Here’s hoping he improves on those negatives (I think they’re all fixable, though the character stuff concerns me). 
 

Given his inconsistency (and our blocking issues) there’s every reason for defenses to keep sending pressure (especially disguising it).  Hopefully Haskins is able to start making teams pay for this on a (more?) consistent basis and coaches find a way to help - whether through hot reads, PA passing, added protection, quick passing game, throwing early more often, going uptempo, etc. 

 

I’m looking forward to seeing how things progress, but damn if it hasn’t been a whole lot of ugly so far.  

[The Sean and Laron show]

Yea Haskins currently sucks but he's won more games this year than any other QB on our roster. I have hope that given an offseason with a coach who believes in him we will see a totally different QB next year.

 

Imagine getting a new job where you find out the boss really wanted someone else and made it clear but he got fired and now youre thrust into a highly visible leadership position with minimal training and minimal resources.

[RawRebel]

Haskins is also in an offense that runs on 1st and 2nd down and then has to throw on 3rd and long. Hopefully we can get an offense more tailored to his strong suits.

[SoCalSkins]

27 minutes ago, RawRebel said:

Haskins is also in an offense that runs on 1st and 2nd down and then has to throw on 3rd and long. Hopefully we can get an offense more tailored to his strong suits.

This offense is tailored to strong suits. When he came in off the bench and they ran the modern NFL offense he threw a pick every 4 passes. This might be as good as it gets.

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

This offense is tailored to strong suits. When he came in off the bench and they ran the modern NFL offense he threw a pick every 4 passes. This might be as good as it gets.

They ran on 1st and 2nd loooong before he threw his first 5 passes/ints lol

[wit33]

Want him to remain ultra aggressive and hope this doesn’t get coached out of him. This represents a huge advantage for the pocket QB over the mobile QB that’s taking over the NFL. If the pocket QB doesn’t provide an ultra aggressiveness down the field, then it’s going to be tough consistently win in today’s NFL, IMO. There’s a balance and overall game management that must be learned, but the ability to value/believe in being aggressive down the field is reserved most times to the great to elite pocket QBs.
 

Fortunately, his skill set aligns with this approach. 

[KDawg]

What part of what we've been seeing aligns him with being ultra aggressive? The one throw that McLaurin caught?

[profusion]

I'm just a fan, but I don't feel after several weeks that I have a better idea of Haskins' potential than I did before the season.

 

So much turmoil and stupidity with this franchise...

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

This offense is tailored to strong suits. When he came in off the bench and they ran the modern NFL offense he threw a pick every 4 passes. This might be as good as it gets.

When did we run a game plan based around throwing on first down with Haskins? 

 

(To be fair to the coaching staff we can exclude the Bills game because of the high winds).

53 minutes ago, KDawg said:

What part of what we've been seeing aligns him with being ultra aggressive? The one throw that McLaurin caught?

I would not call him ultra aggressive. But he will push the ball down the field and try to throw guys open. The pick at the end of the half on the throw to Harmon for example was an aggressive decision and throw.

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

When did we run a game plan based around throwing on first down with Haskins? 

 

(To be fair to the coaching staff we can exclude the Bills game because of the high winds).

 

They never did after the Giants and Vikings mop up duty. The entire plan is to protect Dwayne from embarrassment. He has definitely shown significant improvement from those mop up games but I think that's a factor of the training wheels offense. He has passed the eye test on a couple of spurts and if accuracy was there he would have had 2 very solid games. However it's basically Marty ball with Tony Banks in 2001.  

[Veryoldschool]

8 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

They never did after the Giants and Vikings mop up duty. The entire plan is to protect Dwayne from embarrassment. He has definitely shown significant improvement from those mop up games but I think that's a factor of the training wheels offense. He has passed the eye test on a couple of spurts and if accuracy was there he would have had 2 very solid games. However it's basically Marty ball with Tony Banks in 2001.  

 

So he's not a bust yet.....  Thanks for letting us know because you were so certain he was DOA just a week or 2 back.  

[MartinC]

16 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

They never did after the Giants and Vikings mop up duty. The entire plan is to protect Dwayne from embarrassment. He has definitely shown significant improvement from those mop up games but I think that's a factor of the training wheels offense. He has passed the eye test on a couple of spurts and if accuracy was there he would have had 2 very solid games. However it's basically Marty ball with Tony Banks in 2001.  

So to make any real judgment on his progress (or lack thereof) they have to take the training wheels off. At least to some extent.

 

I would not argue for throwing it 40+ times a game - but we need to balance play calling on first and second down and use more gun and up tempo.

 

its entirely possible the coaching staff have made a judgement he can’t handle that - but the evidence of two minute drives when we go hurry up belies that. 
 

No point handing it off every 1st and 2nd down with the odd play action shot play.

[Llevron]

The coaching staff straight up said that they were gonna run the air out of the ball the moment Gruden was gone. Dude said any team that runs it the most wins or something like that. Everyone was sick about it. At the same time he was saying Keenum was the undisputed starter and his guy and that was it. 

 

There is literally zero correlation between Haskins performance to this point and our play calling as far as the run game and our leaning on it is concerned. 

[SoCalSkins]

13 minutes ago, MartinC said:

So to make any real judgment on his progress (or lack thereof) they have to take the training wheels off. At least to some extent.

 

I would not argue for throwing it 40+ times a game - but we need to balance play calling on first and second down and use more gun and up tempo.

 

its entirely possible the coaching staff have made a judgement he can’t handle that - but the evidence of two minute drives when we go hurry up belies that. 
 

No point handing it off every 1st and 2nd down with the odd play action shot play.

 

I totally agree. We need the wheels off to make sound assessments but Callahan is interested in saying he competed in every game and was close. My other worry is that this is the worst the division has been in forever. We also have some fairly easy out division games next year. With the right coaching and some moves we can be in the middle of it. I definitely think we need more than Haskins as the only viable option to start in September. If he makes an off season leap and wins the job great but in my opinion he hasn't earned anything to have him as the undisputed 2020 game 1 starter. Competition is always good.

 

17 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

So he's not a bust yet.....  Thanks for letting us know because you were so certain he was DOA just a week or 2 back.  

 

A bust is a bust retroactively to when they were drafted. He has played way better and passed the eye test in spurts. Statistically he almost certainly is a bust, like nearly all other prospects. I still think he will be a bust, but he did some nice things on the field I give him credit for. I want him to light it up and succeed. I'm not rooting against him even though I have been very skeptical and critical. This is the easiest the division probably will be for a generation and I don't want us missing out on the opportunity to win it. 

 

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

 

 

 

1

24 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

A bust is a bust retroactively to when they were drafted. He has played way better and passed the eye test in spurts. Statistically he almost certainly is a bust, like nearly all other prospects. I still think he will be a bust, but he did some nice things on the field I give him credit for. I want him to light it up and succeed. I'm not rooting against him even though I have been very skeptical and critical. This is the easiest the division probably will be for a generation and I don't want us missing out on the opportunity to win it. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bloviate

[HigSkin]

2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

A bust is a bust retroactively to when they were drafted. He has played way better and passed the eye test in spurts. Statistically he almost certainly is a bust, like nearly all other prospects. I still think he will be a bust, but he did some nice things on the field I give him credit for. I want him to light it up and succeed. I'm not rooting against him even though I have been very skeptical and critical. This is the easiest the division probably will be for a generation and I don't want us missing out on the opportunity to win it.

 

Still too early to tell.  Problem with these big time program QB's is that they are surrounded by phenomenal talent and not asked to do a lot like a Joe Burrow and what he has around him.  Haskins, the same back at Ohio State.  These kids look the part but what happens in the NFL when skills are equal and they get drafted to NFL teams that lack talent?  It's interesting that smaller program QB's with lesser talent seem to excel faster in the NFL, not necessarily HOF'rs but more immediate game managers.  

 

IMO, jury is still out on Haskins but I think he will eventually get it.

[CjSuAvE22]

Why are ppl looking at wins wins mean nothing if you cant play vs good teams....Last year we were 6-3 with a qb that had 10 tds in 9 games, only fools actually thought we were good...to be good in this league u need either elite level coaching or elite level talent....we got neither of those...too many people on this thread are coddling haskins...hes been worst or second to worst statistically in every qb category vs the other rookies that have played this year.

[wit33]

13 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Why are ppl looking at wins wins mean nothing if you cant play vs good teams....Last year we were 6-3 with a qb that had 10 tds in 9 games, only fools actually thought we were good...to be good in this league u need either elite level coaching or elite level talent....we got neither of those...too many people on this thread are coddling haskins...hes been worst or second to worst statistically in every qb category vs the other rookies that have played this year.

Lol... What I’d give to have same record this year. Team was average to above last year nothing more or less. Nothing special.

 

Division champs! 

You can tell no one is ready to go all in on Haskins, due to some of what you mention, but attempting to remain patient. 

[joeken24]

I'm sitting here looking at the Ravens. Believe me, I am not minimizing Lamar at all. He's clearly HOFish. But he benefits big time from not only the scheme and a good running game (he attributes too). He also, benefits from three wide body TEs that can catch the ball. 

Mark Andrews - 6'5, 256. Can block, run routes and catch the ball.

Nick Boyle - 6'4, 269. Can block, run routes and catch the ball.

Hayden Hurst - 6'5, 260. Can block, run routes and catch the ball. 

 

The Redskins and probably every team in the league need to duplicate this. It's virtually impossible to defend! The crazy thing is, TE are not that difficult to obtain if you stop looking for the Jason Reeds of the world. The Redskins have got to invest in Tight ends to help Haskins. Period.

 

 

[sportjunkie07]

27 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

I'm sitting here looking at the Ravens. Believe me, I am not minimizing Lamar at all. He's clearly HOFish. But he benefits big time from not only the scheme and a good running game (he attributes too). He also, benefits from three wide body TEs that can catch the ball. 

Mark Andrews - 6'5, 256. Can block, run routes and catch the ball.

Nick Boyle - 6'4, 269. Can block, run routes and catch the ball.

Hayden Hurst - 6'5, 260. Can block, run routes and catch the ball. 

 

The Redskins and probably every team in the league need to duplicate this. It's virtually impossible to defend! The crazy thing is, TE are not that difficult to obtain if you stop looking for the Jason Reeds of the world. The Redskins have got to invest in Tight ends to help Haskins. Period.

 

 

 

those guys on Baltimore are exactly that, just regular guys.

 

Lamar Jackson’s ability coupled with a coaching staff scheming around that is 100% why they are having success. The other pieces there are replaceable. It looks easy for the rest of the team because Lamar Jackson has protected the football in the passing game and just broke the qb rushing record. That’s it.

 

the example of what you are talking should be George kittle. He is the best and most dangerous tight end in the league. He is heavily schemed against, is one of the best blockers in the league, and is virtually unguardable. 

 

Guys like that that are extremely difficult to find and others teams did take notice by drafting two tight ends from his alma mater in the first round this year, which was unheard of

 

te has been an issue for the redskins for some time because we have been one dimensional at the position and reed is always hurt. I do agree and have thought for a while that we need upgrades there.

[joeken24]

1 hour ago, sportjunkie07 said:

 

those guys on Baltimore are exactly that, just regular guys.

 

Lamar Jackson’s ability coupled with a coaching staff scheming around that is 100% why they are having success. The other pieces there are replaceable. It looks easy for the rest of the team because Lamar Jackson has protected the football in the passing game and just broke the qb rushing record. That’s it.

 

the example of what you are talking should be George kittle. He is the best and most dangerous tight end in the league. He is heavily schemed against, is one of the best blockers in the league, and is virtually unguardable. 

 

Guys like that that are extremely difficult to find and others teams did take notice by drafting two tight ends from his alma mater in the first round this year, which was unheard of

 

te has been an issue for the redskins for some time because we have been one dimensional at the position and reed is always hurt. I do agree and have thought for a while that we need upgrades there.

Right I agree. If not for the scheme and Lamar's ability to pull the ball down and become a threat in the run game, those TE probably wouldn't be as successful. They are regular guys. But to that point, most of guys on the Ravens are regular guys. Most the guys on the Patriots are regular guys. The Redskins have a lot of regular guys underachieving and at least early on, making too many mistakes. Its gotten a little better, but they definitely need help at that one position to have any hope on offense. 

[profusion]

Lamar Jackson is one of a kind. You can't replicate that with just any run-heavy QB.

 

If the Skins want to build around Haskins, they to try to make him the next Ben Roethlisberger.

[Llevron]

28 minutes ago, profusion said:

Lamar Jackson is one of a kind. You can't replicate that with just any run-heavy QB.

 

I dont believe that at all. He is fortunate enough to have landed with a group determined to make him successful in whatever way they can. And that group happens to have the means, knowledge and leadership in place to do it. But hes not a once in a lifetime or even decade athlete imo. I see all the amazing stuff he can do with his body, but the only thing that really makes him different than Griffin is his ability to take a hit which is probably attributed to his flexibility. Watch and see. If he stays successful, you will without a doubt see more kids with his athletic make up playing that position. Hell hes not much different than many of the cats that came before him. But there definitely will be cats like him who will be told they need to play receiver or RB. If some of those kids are lucky, and find good leadership, he will 100% not be the last guy this decade to do what hes doing. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

23 hours ago, RawRebel said:

Haskins is also in an offense that runs on 1st and 2nd down and then has to throw on 3rd and long. Hopefully we can get an offense more tailored to his strong suits.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

To me the next 3 games for Haskins are huge.   Giants have the 27th ranked defense and just released Jenkins to make their atrocious defense even worse.

 

I like aspects of what I see, his competitive nature, rocket arm, pocket presence, surprisingly decent mobility.  And I like the dude as a person from my small sample up close.

 

His accuracy to me is my problem and I cringe with all the he doesn't work hard enough reports that seem to come nonstop from just about everyone who covers the team, so I am hoping that they are either hyperbole or he grows out of it and some reports indicate he's indeed growing out of it so fingers crossed.  

 

The Giants, Jax, Denver, Arizona aren't brimming with offensive talent yet their rookie QBs all have had their big games.   For me, I want to see that big game from Haskins.  I don't mean that with pessimism.  I think he has it in him.  But yeah if the other rookie QBs sans Finley all show a flash or two game and the best we got are pedestrian games from Haskins, I'd count that as a red flag coming into the off season.  I am not saying have a good game or bust.  I'd run the script next year, too.  But for me personally, if I don't see one really obvious good game out of him, I'll have the same doubts in the off season that I had about him before we drafted him. 

 

Good article today in the WP about Haskins and young Qb development.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/12/13/big-question-dwayne-haskins-what-can-qb-learn-tough-rookie-year/

Understanding the playbook and developing an ability to decipher a dizzying number of NFL defensive schemes are the most important things a rookie quarterback can do, according to several former quarterbacks and coaches. Establishing a base knowledge slows down the game and allows the other necessary attributes — resilience, leadership, work ethic — to propel the quarterback forward.

 

A memory had lodged in Holcomb’s brain from one of Manning’s first minicamps. They were practicing a slant-and-go route where the quarterback dropped three steps, pump-faked and shuffled twice more before throwing. Manning was struggling so much that, eventually, he chased down a team video guy and asked him to record his footwork. Manning studied the tape, realized what he was doing wrong and later perfected the move. That showed Holcomb everything he needed to see.

“A lot of people don’t like to work on their weaknesses, but he was honest with himself,” Holcomb said. “That’s what separated him.”

 

Players and coaches pointed to the offseason as one of the last and most important steps of a quarterback’s rookie season. The successes and mistakes of the first year are only valuable afterward if you actually learn from them. Colts coaches analyzed every play from Manning’s rookie campaign, and they spent the spring honing their approach during 6:30 a.m. workouts. A year later, in Philadelphia, McNabb determined the things he was weakest at — throwing to a spot, stepping up in the pocket, knowing when to check down — and studied film of quarterbacks who excelled in those areas.

Once in a while, McNabb remembered what his coaches had repeated again and again during the season on the sideline or in the meeting room. They told him to forget the last play, something Haskins is hearing now. That advice is a reminder every quarterback needs coming out of his rookie season.

“We need you focusing on now,” McNabb remembered hearing over and over. “We need you to make a play for us.”