Llevron Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, MartinC said: Isn't spending yet another first round pick on a QB 'more of the same'? It would be yea. Thats not what im arguing. Im just saying you dont tell the next GM that Haskins is your guy take it or leave it. If we hire a guy and he keeps him. Cool. If we hire a guy and he tosses him. cool. I actually think you are right, rather he is good or not right now is the least of our worries at the position. You wait and see what he does for another season - clearing you of cap and giving yourself time to teach a young talented player to play the position. I think anyone saying he HAS TO GO right now is just letting their bias cloud their decision making. It accomplishes literally nothing to move on from him right now, where at WORST he can sit back there and take the hits while the team is rebuilt. Thats obvious. Anyone can see that. Hes not stopping us from winning or watching a good football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Llevron said: It would be yea. Thats not what im arguing. Im just saying you dont tell the next GM that Haskins is your guy take it or leave it. If we hire a guy and he keeps him. Cool. If we hire a guy and he tosses him. cool. I actually think you are right, rather he is good or not right now is the least of our worries at the position. You wait and see what he does for another season - clearing you of cap and giving yourself time to teach a young talented player to play the position. I think anyone saying he HAS TO GO right now is just letting their bias cloud their decision making. It accomplishes literally nothing to move on from him right now, where at WORST he can sit back there and take the hits while the team is rebuilt. Thats obvious. Anyone can see that. Hes not stopping us from winning or watching a good football team. I certainly would not argue for forcing Haskins on a GM/HC. Football decision making has to be left to football decision makers - and finding those decision makers is priority number one right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: I know he wasn't a FA this year, but look at Tannehill with the Titans. Assuming Keenum and McCoy are both gone, and Alex Smith isn't cleared to play, you are going to need another QB no matter what. And the job shouldn't be handed to Haskins. Yes we need a backup. I actually think you do hand Haskins the job. Now, if he shows work ethic issues or has some other major problems, then you bench him and see if they can be worked out. If not, you trade/cut him and shoot for the moon the following year. If he plays poorly, or the backup plays instead, your new coach/GM now has a high draft pick to address the position. If he works out, you’ve got more resources to improve the team with. Edit: Obviously the coach and GM should pick their qb. When I say hand him the job, that’s assuming the new regime sees that Haskins has some talent and needs a lot of coaching. If he doesn’t take the coaching, then they shouldn’t be tied to him. If they decide to trade up for Burrows, so be it. I don’t think Haskins would have been given the support/time/coaching he needed, but at least they’d have who they wanted. If they prefer a qb competition with a vet, so be it... I think it would be a mistake for the reasons I outlined previously, but it’s their prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 After the Dolphins trade for Rosen turned out to be a wasted pick, I doubt there will be any market for Haskins if whomever we bring in decides on a reset. Rookie contracts are cheap, so it would make sense to hold on to Haskins even as just a backup if we blow another first trying to do a Kyler Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, Llevron said: Hes not stopping us from winning or watching a good football team. I would argue that yesterday (and every other game except the Bills game) he was a major reason why the offense was under performing. I think we would have had a legit shot to upset the Packers had Keenum came in after halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, KDawg said: No. A new GM/HC need to pick their groceries. Forcing Haskins on them is a mistake and limits your candidates. I'd add. I don't think the beat guys are on some wild conspiracy streak to kick Haskins down just for kicks so I do believe the numerous reports that some FO people and coaches in that building aren't sold on Haskins. My point is i don't think even at Redskins Park there is some consensus behind Haskins. So I back any coach or hopefully new GM on whatever opinion they got on Haskins for better or worst. They should get a clean slate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: I would argue that yesterday (and every other game except the Bills game) he was a major reason why the offense was under performing. I think we would have had a legit shot to upset the Packers had Keenum came in after halftime. We have won 3 games all season. 2 of which Haskins played the whole game. Not saying Haskins was the reason we won those two games - just that Keenum has played in a lot of losses so it's a stretch for me to see him coming off the bench as a saviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 I wonder about the angle of a new coach picking their qb (right off the bat). Would it be better to have a rookie qb learning a new system at the same time as the rest of the team, or is it better to bring a rookie into an established team/offense? I’m torn on this from a philosophical standpoint. Bottom line though, I only draft a qb high if I’m sold on him, otherwise I wait and see what the following draft looks like (meanwhile working with what I have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, MartinC said: We have won 3 games all season. 2 of which Haskins played the whole game. Not saying Haskins was the reason we won those two games - just that Keenum has played in a lot of losses so it's a stretch for me to see him coming off the bench as a saviour. You can't ignore the defense playing much better over these past 3 weeks as compared to the first 10. They averaged giving up 25 points for those first 10 games (would've been higher, IMO, if the 49ers game wasn't played in the rain) and have now averaged 19 points in the last 3 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 The fate of the new GM and particularly the coach are going to be tied to the QB. A reasonable coach/GM are not going to look at what Haskins has put on tape so far and tie their careers to that. That’s reality. You don’t draft a QB in round 1 the year before you clean house. If you do, you can’t expect in demand top notch coaches and GMs to be tied to the previous regime’s decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: I would argue that yesterday (and every other game except the Bills game) he was a major reason why the offense was under performing. I think we would have had a legit shot to upset the Packers had Keenum came in after halftime. I don’t think you are at all unbiased on the subject to be honest. You have literally zero reason to think Keemun could do any better. He lost his job to this guy and the coach (two of them) game him every chance not to lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, Llevron said: You have literally zero reason to think Keemun could do any better. He lost his job to this guy and the coach (two of them) game him every chance not to lol Literally every measurable statistic that defines QB play is every reason as to why Keenum would do better. He "lost" his job because the season was already over and it made no sense to not see what you had in Haskins. And my point was that Keenum was the better option after halftime. I don't even see how that's debatable at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, MartinC said: We have won 3 games all season. 2 of which Haskins played the whole game. Not saying Haskins was the reason we won those two games - just that Keenum has played in a lot of losses so it's a stretch for me to see him coming off the bench as a saviour. Goober Gruden's absence was also a factor in those three wins... 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Also, in 3 of the 5 starts of Haskins, the Skins have had over 100+ yards rushing. In Keenum's 7 starts, there were only 2 such games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: You can't ignore the defense playing much better over these past 3 weeks as compared to the first 10. They averaged giving up 25 points for those first 10 games (would've been higher, IMO, if the 49ers game wasn't played in the rain) and have now averaged 19 points in the last 3 weeks. And the offense averaged 11 points a game in the games leading up to Haskins starting against the Bills. Bills game on we have averaged almost 18 (17.8). Now 18 points a game is not good - but it's more than 11. 6 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: Literally every measurable statistic that defines QB play is every reason as to why Keenum would do better. Well apart from point scored. 5 minutes ago, ntotoro said: Goober Gruden's absence was also a factor in those three wins... 😉 Gruden is a much better offensive coach than Callahan for me. HC is another question though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 We have no TE , all 3 starting receivers are rookies, the starting rb is 34, and the vagabond interim head coach has game planned around that guy. Can we stop trying to compare Haskins to other teams that have a much better surrounding cast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, MartinC said: And the offense averaged 11 points a game in the games leading up to Haskins starting against the Bills. Bills game on we have averaged almost 18 (17.8). Now 18 points a game is not good - but it's more than 11. And in only 2 of those games did the rushing offense have over 100+ yards. They have had 3 in 5 of Haskins' starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, MartinC said: Well apart from point scored. So a one legged Haskins, who was the least efficient QB yesterday as well as having a QBR lower than Mohamed Sanu Sr., was the better option coming out after halftime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said: And in only 2 of those games did the rushing offense have over 100+ yards. They have had 3 in 5 of Haskins' starts. That's good right? Maybe QB play is not the only factor in offensive performance and you have to evaluate wider and really break the film down. I would say the worst game Haskins played so far was the Lions game - but he played a heck of 4th quarter and led a come from behind game winning drive. In fact he's looked better generally in 2 minute or pass first situations were we have gone hurry up. Maybe running an offense from the 1980's based around a tailback is not showing him to his best. Who knows. Right now I would say no-one really knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiLfan Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, PiLfan said: Mason Rudolph has 4 wins and 4 losses, Duck has 7 wins and 1 loss.... Man, look at those Steelers showing off and finishing all their games 3 weeks early lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 The steelers have a pro bowl OL, elite level secondary, a great lb core, and a hall of fame coach. Again... comparing apples to oranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said: The steelers have a pro bowl OL, elite level secondary, a great lb core, and a hall of fame coach. Again... comparing apples to oranges I don’t think anyone expects Haskins to win a whole bunch with this gang, but we would like him to look better than Duck Hodges. Is that not fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I don’t think anyone expects Haskins to win a whole bunch with this gang, but we would like him to look better than Duck Hodges. Is that not fair? Give him time. Haskins is still learning the pro game. He may evolve into a serviceable QB! 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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