FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[skinny21]

I’d have to watch the INT again, but I’d guess that one thing that would have helped was throwing with anticipation - getting the ball out as (or even before) Harmon makes his break.  I don’t blame him for that though - that stuff usually takes time (according to NFL qbs themselves).  
 

Regarding the ankle, him not being able to get to the mesh point on that one handoff should be enough evidence that his ankle was a serious problem.  That’s also the point coach should have pulled him, IMO.  

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

The one from yesterday.  And I would define terrible as being the least efficient and effective quarterback yesterday.  But hey, he's more mobile than we thought!

 

https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1203839580513980418?s=20

He wasn’t mobile at all yesterday. Why he was even on the field in that second half is a mystery.

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

I’d have to watch the INT again, but I’d guess that one thing that would have helped was throwing with anticipation - getting the ball out as (or even before) Harmon makes his break.  I don’t blame him for that though - that stuff usually takes time (according to NFL qbs themselves).  
 

Regarding the ankle, him not being able to get to the mesh point on that one handoff should be enough evidence that his ankle was a serious problem.  That’s also the point coach should have pulled him, IMO.  

I thought that about the stretch play he missed the handoff. But actually he was stepped on by the centre which threw the timing off. But he shouldn’t have been in the field that second half IMO. 

[KDawg]

Just now, MartinC said:

He wasn’t mobile at all yesterday. Why he was even on the field in that second half is a mystery.

 

Yet on the missed meshpoint play he tucked it and ran just fine.

 

That's why I'm so confused by the injury. I don't think he was faking it at all.... but I'm not sure how the hell he failed to get to the mesh but then hauled ass like his anus was on fire.

 

I think he was very clearly in pain, but he was able to "focus away" from it sometimes, and sometimes he wasn't.

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I’d have to watch the INT again, but I’d guess that one thing that would have helped was throwing with anticipation - getting the ball out as (or even before) Harmon makes his break.  I don’t blame him for that though - that stuff usually takes time (according to NFL qbs themselves).  
 

Regarding the ankle, him not being able to get to the mesh point on that one handoff should be enough evidence that his ankle was a serious problem.  That’s also the point coach should have pulled him, IMO.  

 

It looked like he got stepped on on that play by the center.

 

But it also looked like he didn't get back from the LOS fast enough as a QB should. Which could be the ankle. It's all confusing as hell to try to piece together.

 

I feel like you need to be Dr. House or Sherlock Holmes to get the full picture.

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I'm glad we're having a real conversation about this, though, because I do respect you as a poster quite a bit. So this is a good talk.

But this is what I mean about objective film review. I’m not saying you have an agenda, but too much post game ‘analysis’ is pure emotion and guess work. You know that when you break things down it can all look a lot different.

 

I’m not arguing Haskins is playing well. But I will argue anyone who says he’s not making progress and doing some good things. It’s incremental though - and there needs to a big step up this offseason into year 2 for him to become a QB who can win you a game rather than one you have to spoon feed and hope your running game and defense will win for you.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

But this is what I mean about objective film review. I’m not saying you have an agenda, but too much post game ‘analysis’ is pure emotion and guess work. You know that when you break things down it can all look a lot different.

 

I’m not arguing Haskins is playing well. But I will argue anyone who says he’s not making progress and doing some good things. It’s incremental though - and there needs to a big step up this offseason into year 2 for him to become a QB who can win you a game rather than one you have to spoon feed and hope your running game and defense will win for you.

Im not sure what point you think you made with agendas, but I’d look in the mirror if you’re making that claim. 
 

Im taking back my kudos, damnit.

[MartinC]

Just now, KDawg said:

Im not sure what point you think you made with agendas, but I’d look in the mirror if you’re making that claim. 
 

Im taking back my kudos, damnit.

My only agenda is seeing the Redskins play winning football. I’m sure that’s the same with you. 
 

I was not suggesting anything else - quite the opposite.

[PlayAction]

20 years of frustration and no one is sure whether Snyder blew another first round pick.  I'm hopeful that he was just drafted too high.  No one would complain if he was drafted in the second round and learning behind a true starter.

[Jumbo]

next year dwyane will be on another team for whatever they can get for him cuz dan's gonna pony up tens of millions in cash to bring tannehill to the 'skins

[DJHJR86]

15 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

20 years of frustration and no one is sure whether Snyder blew another first round pick.  I'm hopeful that he was just drafted too high.  No one would complain if he was drafted in the second round and learning behind a true starter.

 

I agree with this take 100%.  But there would be a much more serious discussion of drafting another QB next year if Haskins continues to look like Ryan Finley bad for the last 3 games.  Because of he was taken in the first round, people automatically get defensive about drafting another QB.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

next year dwyane will be on another team for whatever they can get for him cuz dan's gonna pony up tens of millions in cash to bring tannehill to the 'skins

Cam Newton seems more up Dan's alley.  But if Dwayne was really Dan's choice, we're stuck with Dwayne.  But you never know what can happen in Ashburnistan.

[MartinC]

48 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I agree with this take 100%.  But there would be a much more serious discussion of drafting another QB next year if Haskins continues to look like Ryan Finley bad for the last 3 games.  Because of he was taken in the first round, people automatically get defensive about drafting another QB.  

 

So here is the decision/dilemma.

 

We have a LOT of holes on this offense - and part of that might be scheme/coaching but that's another topic. Just on the roster though we have thin air at TE, need two OTs (assuming Trent is gone and Penn retires). We need 3 quality starters right there at a minimum. AT running back CT is a free agent, AP and Guice are under contract but Guice as talented as he is seems to have durability issues. Do we need another back? At WR I think we have a true number 1 in McLaurin and two developing potential starters in Harmon and Simms, but we could absolutely use another real playmaker opposite Terry. Both starting guards are also free agents.

 

We have needs on D as well. FS, CB, Edge at a minimum.

 

Meanwhile Smith is still on the books at QB next year at a big cap number. Count me as someone who highly doubts he can pass a physical to play for next year. Very hard to see us being able to dedicate even more cap space to the QB position bringing in a veteran on starter type money.

 

Then we have scarce draft resources which will include a premium top 5 pick. But Burrows will go first overall. That leaves us with a choice possibly of Herbert whoes mechanics are even worse than Haskins and has days he can't hit the broad-side of barn from ten paces or an injured Tua. I LOVE Tua but it would be hell of a risk taking him top 5 until he has proven his health. Then its more projects and 2nd/3rd round types.

 

So do you give up on Haskins now after 4 starts where he HAS shown some progression and draft another guy who you are going to put into a situation with big holes around him. Or do you fill some of the holes around the QB position and give Haskins more time knowing that if he does not show progression next season you will likely be in the position to draft high again in 2021 on what looks like a really strong QB class - which could be even stronger if Tua stays in School to prove his health.

 

I know which way I would lean ... 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

So here is the decision/dilemma.

 

We have a LOT of holes on this offense - and part of that might be scheme/coaching but that's another topic. Just on the roster though we have thin air at TE, need two OTs (assuming Trent is gone and Penn retires). We need 3 quality starters right there at a minimum. AT running back CT is a free agent, AP and Guice are under contract but Guice as talented as he is seems to have durability issues. Do we need another back? At WR I think we have a true number 1 in McLaurin and two developing potential starters in Harmon and Simms, but we could absolutely use another real playmaker opposite Terry. Both starting guards are also free agents.

 

We have needs on D as well. FS, CB, Edge at a minimum.

 

Meanwhile Smith is still on the books at QB next year at a big cap number. Count me as someone who highly doubts he can pass a physical to play for next year. Very hard to see us being able to dedicate even more cap space to the QB position bringing in a veteran on starter type money.

 

Then we have scarce draft resources which will include a premium top 5 pick. But Burrows will go first overall. That leaves us with a choice possibly of Herbert whoes mechanics are even worse than Haskins and has days he can't hit the broad-side of barn from ten paces or an injured Tua. I LOVE Tua but it would be hell of a risk taking him top 5 until he has proven his health. Then its more projects and 2nd/3rd round types.

 

So do you give up on Haskins now after 4 starts where he HAS shown some progression and draft another guy who you are going to put into a situation with big holes around him. Or do you fill some of the holes around the QB position and give Haskins more time knowing that if he does not show progression next season you will likely be in the position to draft high again in 2021 on what looks like a really strong QB class - which could be even stronger if Tua stays in School to prove his health.

 

I know which way I would lean ... 

 

Priority 1: Get rid of Allen and see if Trent Williams will play for the team next year.

Priority 2: Get Flowers and/or Scherff under contract.

Priority 3: Scope out FA to fill other holes (QB/OL/CB/FS/ILB/TE/RB)

Priority 4: See what the roster is like on draft day. Try to acquire additional first round capital, if not, try for additional 2nd round capital. 

Priority 5: Draft by BPA with need weights based on FA.

 

It's a little early to get too specific here, but Williams may play for a team that doesn't have Bruce Allen at the helm. Or he may not. This team does have several holes. Quarterback is very likely one. But the top priority has to be the offensive line.

 

I don't think we have the luxury of addressing much at WR, but if an intriguing enough prospect comes through that could happen. CB is a similar spot. 

 

TE is lacking in first round assets in the draft round now, in my opinion. But I haven't done a great scout on the position yet.

 

Ultimately, a new GM/HC should pick their groceries. And if it isn't Haskins, it isn't Haskins.

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

So do you give up on Haskins now after 4 starts where he HAS shown some progression and draft another guy who you are going to put into a situation with big holes around him. Or do you fill some of the holes around the QB position and give Haskins more time knowing that if he does not show progression next season you will likely be in the position to draft high again in 2021 on what looks like a really strong QB class - which could be even stronger if Tua stays in School to prove his health.

 

You absolutely have the conversation about giving up on Haskins after 8 starts.  Especially if Snyder does the right and correct thing and go nuclear and cleans house and hires an actual GM to run the team.  At a minimum, the discussion should be about bringing in a FA QB to compete for the job.  

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

You absolutely have the conversation about giving up on Haskins after 8 starts.  Especially if Snyder does the right and correct thing and go nuclear and cleans house and hires an actual GM to run the team.  At a minimum, the discussion should be about bringing in a FA QB to compete for the job.  

 

I think if you are going to try to prove to fans that the FO is really going to do things the correct way then you have to entertain it. 100%. You absolutely cannot have another guy come in here with the exception that we keep Haskins. Ignoring the fact that hes not good enough to base your GM on and no player is, but you have to show the fans that there is change here and not more of the same. 

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

You absolutely have the conversation about giving up on Haskins after 8 starts.  Especially if Snyder does the right and correct thing and go nuclear and cleans house and hires an actual GM to run the team.  At a minimum, the discussion should be about bringing in a FA QB to compete for the job.  

 

Everything should be evaluated. And obviously how you evaluate Haskins plays a big part in whatever the answer is (and you and I clearly differ there on that evaluation - if only if I think at worst you have to say 'incomplete').

 

But bringing in a free agent QB ... just don't see that happening. At least not one who is going to really challenge for the starting role. That conversation would start at $20M+ for anyone who is a legit starting option. ALex Smith has a $21M cap number next year - are you really going to dedicate $40M + tof cap space to the QB position and if you do how are filling out a quality roister around that QB to give him a chance to succeed.

 

If we get a new GM and HC next year is likely an evaluation and transition year anyway. Ride Haskins and see where the chips fall at the ends of 2020.

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I think if you are going to try to prove to fans that the FO is really going to do things the correct way then you have to entertain it. 100%. You absolutely cannot have another guy come in here with the exception that we keep Haskins. Ignoring the fact that hes not good enough to base your GM on and no player is, but you have to show the fans that there is change here and not more of the same. 

 

Isn't spending yet another first round pick on a QB 'more of the same'?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

Isn't spending yet another first round pick on a QB 'more of the same'?

 

No. A new GM/HC need to pick their groceries. Forcing Haskins on them is a mistake and limits your candidates.

[HigSkin]

Yikes, if you're looking for Haskins in QB completion % see left bottom corner!

 

 

[MartinC]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Priority 1: Get rid of Allen and see if Trent Williams will play for the team next year.

 

Agreed. 100%. I think Williams is gone whatever but the new GM hs that conversation.

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Priority 2: Get Flowers and/or Scherff under contract.

 

100%

 

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Priority 3: Scope out FA to fill other holes (QB/OL/CB/FS/ILB/TE/RB)

 

Which will take up a lot of the available cap space. Jones from Dallas for example should be targeted at corner but will be at a premium.

 

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Priority 4: See what the roster is like on draft day. Try to acquire additional first round capital, if not, try for additional 2nd round capital. 

 

Only capital we have really is Williams and Kerrigan IMO. Who else are you looking at? And I don't see either of them getting a first. 2nd for Trent and maybe a 3rd or 4th for Kerrigan.

 

 

[KDawg]

Just now, MartinC said:

 

Agreed. 100%. I think Williams is gone whatever but the new GM hs that conversation.

 

100%

 

 

Which will take up a lot of the available cap space. Jones from Dallas for example should be targeted at corner but will be at a premium.

 

 

Only capital we have really is Williams and Kerrigan IMO. Who else are you looking at? And I don't see either of them getting a first. 2nd for Trent and maybe a 3rd or 4th for Kerrigan.

 

 

 

The third overall pick could be tremendous value.

[skinny21]

22 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

You absolutely have the conversation about giving up on Haskins after 8 starts.  Especially if Snyder does the right and correct thing and go nuclear and cleans house and hires an actual GM to run the team.  At a minimum, the discussion should be about bringing in a FA QB to compete for the job.  

I’m not in favor of bringing in a FA qb to compete with Haskins.  First of all, you’re splitting reps, which means neither qb is going to be where they could be with full reps.  Secondly, a FA qb is almost assuredly not taking us to the super bowl and very likely wouldn’t be in our long term plans.  Third (and this ties into the 2nd point), if a FA beats out Haskins, we likely wind up with a worse draft position.  4th, we’re down money that could be used to sign other FAs, re-sign our own guys, or roll over.  Lastly, you’re creating a scenario similar to this year in which you will sow doubt about the starting quarterback and they’ll inherently feel like they are on a short leash.  
 

My only caveat would be if the FO sees a FA they think has a legit shot at being a (long term) franchise qb for us and wants him in the building to give him a shot.  A lot of the above would still apply though.  
 

Edit: @MartinC is correct that next year should be a transition/evaluation year for a new coach/GM.  @KDawg I agree that a new regime should get to pick their groceries, but I don’t think Haskins is much of a deterrent, if at all.  Now if Dan says, “you have to make it work with this guy and I won’t let you draft another qb for the next two+ years”, then sure, that’s a problem.  Fortunately, Snyder has shown some patience with GMs/coaches recently, so I don’t see a 1 year trial with Haskins being that deterrent.  

[MartinC]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

The third overall pick could be tremendous value.

 

Agreed. A trade back is something I would absolutely consider.

[DJHJR86]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

But bringing in a free agent QB ... just don't see that happening. At least not one who is going to really challenge for the starting role. That conversation would start at $20M+ for anyone who is a legit starting option. ALex Smith has a $21M cap number next year - are you really going to dedicate $40M + tof cap space to the QB position and if you do how are filling out a quality roister around that QB to give him a chance to succeed.

 

Assuming Alex Smith doesn't play next year, what are they going to do at QB?  They have to sign a FA or draft one.  

 

And let's be real.  If this were a true QB competition right now, Haskins would be the number 3 on the depth chart.  

[bakedtater1]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

Agreed. 100%. I think Williams is gone whatever but the new GM hs that conversation.

 

100%

 

 

Which will take up a lot of the available cap space. Jones from Dallas for example should be targeted at corner but will be at a premium.

 

 

Only capital we have really is Williams and Kerrigan IMO. Who else are you looking at? And I don't see either of them getting a first. 2nd for Trent and maybe a 3rd or 4th for Kerrigan.

 

 

Get as much as you can for kerrigan,norman,reed,thompson,anyone else on defense that ain't named ion,payne,allen..maybe sweat..same goes for offense...everyone not named mclaurin,harmon,sims,scherff, flowers(surprisingly)..

[DJHJR86]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Secondly, a FA qb is almost assuredly not taking us to the super bowl and very likely wouldn’t be in our long term plans. 

 

I know he wasn't a FA this year, but look at Tannehill with the Titans.  Assuming Keenum and McCoy are both gone, and Alex Smith isn't cleared to play, you are going to need another QB no matter what.  And the job shouldn't be handed to Haskins.  

[MartinC]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

 

Assuming Alex Smith doesn't play next year, what are they going to do at QB?  They have to sign a FA or draft one.  

 

And let's be real.  If this were a true QB competition right now, Haskins would be the number 3 on the depth chart.  

 

You have to sign a vet as a backup for sure and maybe draft a developmental guy later in the draft who could become that backup.

 

And yes Haskins would be third - but then this year and next should be about his development. If he's not the clear starter by merit at the end of next year chances are he never will be. I just don't believe anyone can make that judgement right now.