Starting QB 2019???

[MartinC]

13 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

The best offer I would give them is our 2nd and we get Rosen and there 4th. 

 

HTTR 

 

If the Giants get involved along with maybe the Dolphins I think it takes more than our 2nd. The Giants will not trade their first round pick for him, I think we have to give up our first rounder this year to trump them. I would rather do that than trade this years first and maybe next years to move up to the top pick to get Murray.

 

If we are the only serious bidder the 2nd round pick likely gets it done.

[bakedtater1]

20 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

If the Giants get involved along with maybe the Dolphins I think it takes more than our 2nd. The Giants will not trade their first round pick for him, I think we have to give up our first rounder this year to trump them. I would rather do that than trade this years first and maybe next years to move up to the top pick to get Murray.

 

If we are the only serious bidder the 2nd round pick likely gets it done.

This is exactly where I see things sitting..if the phins are really interested and are offering there 13(I believe it is) than we should be out of the race..I believe it will take our 2nd/3rd and Norman.

[clskinsfan]

22 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

If the Giants get involved along with maybe the Dolphins I think it takes more than our 2nd. The Giants will not trade their first round pick for him, I think we have to give up our first rounder this year to trump them. I would rather do that than trade this years first and maybe next years to move up to the top pick to get Murray.

 

If we are the only serious bidder the 2nd round pick likely gets it done.

 

Kind of a win win for us though. If the Giants trade for Rosen than either Haskins or Lock will be there at 15 most likely. Denver seems to love Lock. I would take Haskins in a heartbeat if he fell to 15.

[MartinC]

14 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Kind of a win win for us though. If the Giants trade for Rosen than either Haskins or Lock will be there at 15 most likely. Denver seems to love Lock. I would take Haskins in a heartbeat if he fell to 15.

 

I like Haskins as well. I’d be very happy with him at #15. I like Rosen more, but they are very similar types of QB. 

[LightningBuggs]

Skins OL being greatly overrated in this thread. 

 

A. It’s NEVER healthy. Last year was not an aberration. 

B. Williams being constantly banged up is starting to affect his game. He’s starting to fade with age. 

C. There’s one reliable starter on the line, Scherff. Every other position is “meh”. 

 

But sure, putting Rosen behind this line will solve all of the problems he has shown. 

 

This has disaster written all over it. 

[MartinC]

Just now, LightningBuggs said:

Skins OL being greatly overrated in this thread. 

 

A. It’s NEVER healthy. Last year was not an aberration. 

B. Williams being constantly banged up is starting to affect his game. He’s starting to fade with age. 

C. There’s one reliable starter on the line, Scherff. Every other position is “meh”. 

 

But sure, putting Rosen behind this line will solve all of the problems he has shown. 

 

This has disaster written all over it. 

 

As opposed to starting Colt McCoy or sending a bunch of picks for a rookie who will play at around 185?

 

if Rosen flames out at worst you have a quality backup and roll out the brinks truck to take a QB very high in 2020.

[Skins199021]

I'd Trade a 3rd and 2020 5th at most for Rosen, and select Rypien on day three if he is still there.

 

If that happens I then trade back to 25-29 in the first trying to pick up another 2nd

[storretti]

I’ve been listening to Chris Cooley’s podcast and he loves Drew Lock...LOVES Drew Lock.  He loves Murray but probably pick Lock over Murray if he had the choice.  He is not impressed with Haskins and doesn’t believe he should be drafted in the first round.  

 

Listening to Cooley, he’s not in love with Rosen at all, ball security issues that he had in college carried over in a big way in the pros and he struggles to throw on the run.  I wouldn’t say he poopooed on Rosen, but wasn’t blown away.  Makes you wonder why the Cardinals would give up on Rosen so quickly if they don’t have the same thoughts.

 

in the end, Cooley made me a believer and I would be so excited if we get Lock in the draft.  But we will see.

[RandyHolt]

i am just going to throw this out there.... not a snowballs chance in hell that Rosen only fetches a 3rd.

 

[Poindexter]

9 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

i am just going to throw this out there.... not a snowballs chance in hell that Rosen only fetches a 3rd.

 

I agree....I think if we can get Rosen and keep our first rounder then it's a win.  I think it's going to take a 2nd and 3rd for sure.  

 

[Nerm]

5 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

Some suspect sources (a lot of those around this time of year) saying Skins and Giants going hard after Rosen and Pats are the sleeper who may sneak in.  Then you see stuff like they may keep Rosen as their backup.  Wow, bad idea thinking about RGIII and KC - toxic.  I think some of this is coming from the morning NFL show shows and speculation but FWIW.

 

I think it could be toxic, but you also may get a better QB in the end if these high talent players have to go into every practice with the mindset that they have something to prove.  The 49ers got Steve Young when they already had Montana, a lot of people thought that was a toxic idea... But it didn't take away from winning Super Bowls with both.  A situation that is more comparable to the possibility of keeping Rosen and drafting Murray is what Dallas did in 1989.  They took Aikman #1 overall, as he was considered to be the best QB prospect since Elway.  Then in the supplemental draft, they used a 1st round pick to take Steve Walsh that same year.  Aikman couldn't have been happy about it, but Jimmy Johnson sent a message that even players expected to be the franchise savior have to produce to keep their job.  When Aikman won the competition, Dallas traded Walsh for  first, second, and third round picks.  

[bakedtater1]

31 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

i am just going to throw this out there.... not a snowballs chance in hell that Rosen only fetches a 3rd.

 

The Cardinals will get a first.. dolphins first..Rosen starting qb for Miami week 1..my prediction

[RWJ]

6 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

The Cardinals will get a first.. dolphins first..Rosen starting qb for Miami week 1..my prediction

In the end I think it will be at least a 1st and possibly more and Rosen is the starting QB for the Skins week 1.  

[RandyHolt]

I wonder if trading for a kid that struggled in his first year provides a better way for us to get a QB.  Loot an org littered with dysfunction....

 

Lord knows if we draft one, we will grossly overpay to move up, and draft another QB in the same draft to make the guy we took look over his shoulder his entire time here, or burn a 6th on a developmental guy and watch him get a ring at a rival.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

What if it’s all a ruse to drum up interest in the 1st pick? Or to drum up interest Rosen just to see what their future options would be?

What if Charlie Casserly is right and teams aren’t impressed with Murray? 

 

What if we don’t bite and sit tight and one of Haskins Murray or Lock falls to us?

 

i can dream right? I don’t think any of this is that crazy.

[aszumilo]

17 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I wonder if trading for a kid that struggled in his first year provides a better way for us to get a QB.  Loot an org littered with dysfunction....

 

Lord knows if we draft one, we will grossly overpay to move up, and draft another QB in the same draft to make the guy we took look over his shoulder his entire time here, or burn a 6th on a developmental guy and watch him get a ring at a rival.

I've seen that movie before..........

[skins2victory]

1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

The Cardinals will get a first.. dolphins first..Rosen starting qb for Miami week 1..my prediction

 

I hope Rosen does go to the Dolphins. Between Rosen and Lock I would much rather get Lock. If Rosen is a Dolphin then we have a better shot at Lock falling to 15.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Lets hear from Coach Kingsbury himself from today...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/05/kliff-kingsbury-insists-cardinals-havent-decided-on-top-pick/

 

Both Murray and Bosa are co-favorites at the betting establishments to be the first pick, same odds. Vegas is pretty good at what they do. The fact it is co-favorites and not overwhelmingly Murray may be a clue? Gotta love draft season..

Maybe this all clears up once Murray has his pro day, maybe not.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Warned everyone pages and pages back about Murray. Over-rated as a football player.

VERY.

Let the Cards take him. Skins should not want him.

I honestly would take the Cards' Rosen instead, if they choose to take Murray.

So let the Cards take Murray, and we take Rosen, at a REASONABLE exchange.

But I am not in any way a bitter soul. So Mr Murray, I wish you the best at whatever team you land.

[Skinsinparadise]

PFF article about Rosen

 

 

 

...Offensive coordinator Mike McCoy was fired midway through the season, and interim offensive coordinator Byron Leftwich’s playcalling was hamstrung by the worst offensive line in the NFL by PFF’s grading. As such, Rosen limped to an unspectacular 49.1 overall grade in his rookie season. The Cardinals finished with the worst record in the NFL at 3-13 and now control of the number one overall pick. Head coach Steve Wilks was fired after the season and replaced with the similarly-fired former head coach of Texas Tech, Kliff Kingsbury. It’s safe to say the reset button has been pushed.

 

That reportedly leaves Rosen as an expendable commodity. The ‘college’ concepts that Kingsbury brings to the table were quite obviously run at a higher level by Heisman trophy winner Kyler Murray than they were by Rosen at UCLA, but should they really cut bait after one season? The obvious answer in this situation should be: yes.

 

It’s important to remember that this has nothing to do with Rosen, and everything to do with their prior evaluations. I don’t care what team you are, if you are in a position to upgrade the quarterback position – with how valuable even slight incremental differences can be – you do it. If the staff has a higher grade on Murray or even Dwayne Haskins or Drew Lock, they should pull the trigger.

 

This is obviously easier said than done, but it’s important to remember that it has nothing to do with ‘giving up’ on Josh Rosen. His rookie season falls somewhere on the Goff/Trubisky spectrum in terms of simply throwing it out the window for evaluation purposes. This was the fourth quarterback selected in the 2018 draft though; three other teams that drafted quarterbacks (Browns, Jets, Bills) quite obviously did not have Rosen as their top guy. Two other quarterback-needy teams in the Giants and Broncos didn’t think Rosen was a franchise-type guy either. This obviously doesn’t prove anything for Rosen’s career going forward, other than a handful of other teams didn’t have super-high grades on the now-Cardinals quarterback.

 

That’s what makes the trade market for him tricky. If you had a first-round grade on Rosen a year ago, should you be willing to give up a first for him now? While there’s evidence that it’s not a death knell, Rosen’s dreadful rookie year should impact your valuation of him for a couple of reasons. The first is that he’s already burned a year of deflated price control. The second is that the odds simply aren’t in your favor. While there have been exceptions of late, the vast majority of the top quarterbacks in the NFL were at least average in their first season of starting experience, while the majority of the ‘elite’ quarterbacks performed well above-average.

Here are all the quarterbacks in PFF’s grading history who played at least 350 snaps and rookie grade under 60.0:

 

That’s a bad list. Goff is obviously the dream scenario, but there’s a laundry list of first-round busts that should give pause. Even guys like Derek Carr and Matthew Stafford, who turned it around after their rookie seasons, still haven’t exactly been consistent over the course of their careers. Any potential trade partner looking at this list should be given pause for thought.

Just as the way the Packers were the suitors for second-round pick DeShone Kizer last year, pretty much anyone could be a potential fit for Rosen. The Broncos, Dolphins, and Redskins are all in the immediate-quarterback market with draft slots that might not allow them to get one. The Bengals, Raiders, Bucs, and Lions could all be in the supplementary-quarterback market. The Steelers, Chargers, Saints, and Patriots could all be in the groom-the-quarterback-of-the-future market. It will all come down to price. The possibly inflated evaluation and the dreadful rookie season could see many unwilling to part with the first-round pick that the Cardinals covet. At the end of the day though, Arizona has to go with who they believe is the best player available to them at quarterback, and not worry about the compensation in return.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-what-next-for-cardinals-qb-josh-rosen

[RichmondRedskin88]

Maybe I’m taking this personal but Rosen said if he bombed out his rich LA doctor parents would make sure he never worked a 9-5 job like regular people.  So well I don’t work that kind I find that jacked up and my ex came from LA doctor family like that where basically everything was covered by them as I figured out over time.  We broke up because her family wasn’t accepting of a non upper class person who didn’t walk in with a doctorate.

 

so no. If we trade for him I won’t watch again until he’s gone.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Maybe I’m taking this personal but Rosen said if he bombed out his rich LA doctor parents would make sure he never worked a 9-5 job like regular people.  So well I don’t work that kind I find that jacked up and my ex came from LA doctor family like that where basically everything was covered by them as I figured out over time.  We broke up because her family wasn’t accepting of a non upper class person who didn’t walk in with a doctorate.

 

so no. If we trade for him I won’t watch again until he’s gone.

Where did you see this?

 

I did a quick google search and came up empty.  Not because I find it hard to believe that a privleged kid would feel that way, but to be dumb enough to say it publicly, that’s another thing.

[dballer]

34 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Where did you see this?

 

I did a quick google search and came up empty.  Not because I find it hard to believe that a privleged kid would feel that way, but to be dumb enough to say it publicly, that’s another thing.

 

Yeh, I would love to see where he said that. If it was true i'd definitely say that was a red flag. Most of the red flags I saw about him coming out were "too smart", "too political (Not a Trump fan so that will rub some people wrong/right)", and possibly not focused enough on football. To me he seems like an uber competitor on the field. Also, reading some of his quotes and issues that brought up those red flags, you can definitely see he is intelligent and thoughtful kid. That doesn't seem like the kind of quote he would have given. Sure he is a rich kid, and he knows it, but he seems to have an understanding the he has been privileged where others are not, which is not always the case with kids like that. 

 

 

[OVCChairman]

Rosen may not be a great QB.  He may not even be a good QB.  I don't think anyone in here suggesting we make a move, is doing so because we feel like he's some lock to be a future hall of fame player. 

 

Here's what we know right now.  

 

In 2019 we're paying Alex Smith $20+ mil and he's not playing

We have Colt McCoy under contract for an additional $3.375 mil

We're going to need to add AT LEAST 2 QBs over the course of the offseason

 

 

Here are our options imho

 

1.  Sign a free agent.  Looking at the free agent class we'd be likely looking to spend somewhere near $5 - $7 mil for someone to come in here, likely on a 1 or 2 year deal.  And that's the very low estimates about cost.  Keenum, Bortles, Fitzpatrick... someone in that range.  We could luck out and Bridgewater could agree to come here but there are questions there.   This route would mean we have 3 players (Smith, McCoy, XXXX free agent) on our roster who are likely in the 2nd half of their career.  We can still take a QB later in the draft to develop, but i would be frustrated if we went this route AND took a QB at 15 because if we're going to groom a guy behind a vet, let them groom behind Colt. 

 

2.  Draft a QB.   If we take a QB at 15, it likely ends up being Daniel Jones, because from what I heard, Lock looked good at the combine.  It's likely that Murray, Haskins, and Lock are off the board.  Now we can trade BACK and hope we still get jones, if that's what you want to do, but that's no guarantee. This would mean we go into camp with Jones vs McCoy vs whoever as an open competition for the position.  I think Gruden stands on the table for McCoy because he likely gives him the best chance to win in his eyes, but i think the fanbase and other FO people push for the rookie to be with the first team early in the season. 

 

3.  Trade a 2nd or a 3rd for Rosen.  This is where it could change a lot of the dynamic of the team.  We NEED to add QBs over the next 5 months before we go to camp.  Rosen (at the right price) COULD open the flexibility of the team.  He costs LESS THAN $4 mil in 2019.  There aren't many backups in the league that cost that little.  He counts for $4.8 mil in 2020 and $5.6 mil in 2020.  The other important thing he does is allows us to keep 15 and use it.  Now that means we could take someone that we really like to help change the dynamic of the team.  Hockenson, Devin White (if he falls), Cody Ford, AJ Brown... etc.  The other thing we can do is trade back and possibly get back a pick similar to the one we traded away.  If someone like Lock or White falls, someone is going to want them, and very likely be willing to deal to get up there...  If Rosen works out... great... if he doesnt, we've used a 2nd or 3rd on a guy who likely grades out higher than any QB that would be available for us to draft this year.  

 

 

 

Stop looking at Rosen like we're spending our future looking at Rosen to be the answer, and look at it like we're essentially using a 2nd day pick on a guy who graded out as a 1st round QB, but fell to the 2nd or 3rd round because of some questions on film.  

[Llevron]

He did say something like that in the past if my memory serves me. I also think he was responding to questions or suggestions about money/ getting paid. Basically saying he isnt all about the money because he doesnt really need it. Which if you put that into conjunction with his competitiveness, would mean that he wants to win and only wants to win. Hell, dude may even take a discount cause money isnt everything to him. 

 

But that last part is a hell of a stretch so I can understand being wary of the dude