Starting QB 2019???

[evmiii]

If we can get Josh Rosen with a second round pick I would jump on it.  Cardinals eat the $10 mil signing bonus and we get a potential future franchise QB.  Take a good football player with the 15 pick, fill the roster holes with the other picks and free agency.

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, evmiii said:

If we can get Josh Rosen with a second round pick I would jump on it.  Cardinals eat the $10 mil signing bonus and we get a potential future franchise QB.  Take a good football player with the 15 pick, fill the roster holes with the other picks and free agency.

It's going to cost us a 1st!  New England will gladly give up their #32 for Rosen as is being started.  To me, #15 is a bargain in many ways for Rosen.

[SemperFi Skins]

Not willing to give up our first. Most i'd offer is a 2, and he was my second qb on my draft list last year besides Mayfield. Every team not named the Cardinals has the leverage. 

 

 

[bakedtater1]

I'm worried the phins will beat us out on Rosen offering there 1st.

[SemperFi Skins]

Just now, bakedtater1 said:

I'm worried the phins will beat us out on Rosen offering there 1st.

 

Let them... One less team in on Haskins

[bakedtater1]

Just now, SemperFi Skins said:

 

Let them... One less team in on Haskins

You want Haskins?.. I wouldn't think he'd make it past the Giants..

[Hooper]

There is no way we get Rosen on the cheap draft-picks wise. Would be pretty surprised if it's only a second.

 

If we fall in love, Bruce will go overboard. My God, the Cardinals can't believe their good fortune.

 

They'll settle on an already great deal for the Cards... and then Bruce will throw a good young player just for fun. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Making the Call

Now, is the body of work sufficient to make a move for Rosen? I would argue that it is. From what he showed at UCLA through his turbulent rookie season, Rosen has displayed the traits that you often seek in a quarterback: Mental processing, accuracy, competitive toughness, ball placement, manipulation and anticipation as a passer. Were there struggles? Of course. But many rookie quarterbacks struggle, and Rosen is no different. When viewed with context, given the talent in place in Arizona, some of his failures make more sense.

 

Are there areas where he needs to improve? Of course. He will need to be faster with his reads, he will need to take better care of the football, both in the pocket and with his decision making. However, there is no reason to believe that these development cannot occur for him, provided he is in the right environment.

 

Let’s not forget, Rosen has been through a number of different offensive systems since his college days. UCLA ran two different offenses while he was in school, first a spread-based offense and later a more “pro-style” system with him featured more under center. Then as a rookie he played for two different offensive coordinators. More than anything else, some stability in terms of coaching and scheme would do him a world of good.

Whether the Patriots would even be interested in Rosen is another question. There were rumblings last season that New England was not high on the UCLA QB, reasons relating more to off-the-field issues than anything else. But if the asking price is only a third round pick - provide you believe those stories - then New England should at least explore the opportunity. Especially when you consider the associated cost: Rosen’s contract is extremely team-friendly over the course of the deal, given the rookie salary structure. Given that rookie quarterbacks are perhaps the biggest competitive advantage available to a team (outside of having Brady as your starting quarterback) the numbers also work in New England’s favor.

 

Finally, consider the 2019 quarterback class itself. While players like Murray, Dwayne Haskins and Drew Lock likely hear their names called in the first round, this group is viewed by many as a weak draft group. Daniel Jones to the Patriots late in the first round is one such rumor swirling around, and some (such as Mel Kiper) have mocked the Duke University QB to New England with that 32nd overall selection. But if the choice is Jones at 32 or Rosen for a third-round pick, or even a second, is anyone passing up the QB with one year of starting experience in the NFL?

Rumors of Rosen to New England have been swirling for over a year now, and given that this is the lying season, they might remain just that: Rumors. But if the QB is truly available, he might be the best option for the Patriots to address the quarterback position behind Brady this offseason has to offer.

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/3/5/18250622/nfl-rumors-josh-rosen-arizona-cardinals-new-england-patriots-kyler-murray-tom-brady-larry-fitzgerald

[SemperFi Skins]

3 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

You want Haskins?.. I wouldn't think he'd make it past the Giants..

 

I was huge Rosen fan coming out but there's no denying the arm talent and pocket poise Haskins has. If Rosen can be had for a 2nd, do it. Do not sell the first. 

 

Sure, its a risk that Murray and Haskins are gone, but I am confident in this draft that there is a load a talent that could help this team.

[Burgold]

I still lean towards us NOT drafting a QB this year. The reason is simple. I expect the team to be terrible next year. If it is, I see Gruden and Allen gone. Moreover, I hear next year is the year to get a super-blue chip prospect at QB. So, why should we reach this year for a draft pick or trade for someone a team gave up on after only one year and give up the chance to get a better franchise level QB.

If I'm right, I see next year being 4-12 give or take. That doesn't really change with either McCoy or Rosen at the helm. Do we want to be 4-12 and tied to Rosen and Smith? Sounds shortsighted and dumb.

 

Now, if I'm wrong and Rosen is a superstar about to launch a transcendent ten year career then get him, but if that were the case... would Arizona really be leaning towards dumping him after just a year?

[bakedtater1]

Just now, SemperFi Skins said:

 

I was huge Rosen fan coming out but there's no denying the arm talent and pocket poise Haskins has. If Rosen can be had for a 2nd, do it. Do not sell the first. 

Could not agree more .how hot are the skins on Rosen..phins prob as hot could offer there 1..please Lord don't let us give our first for him..

[Darth Tater]

Just now, bakedtater1 said:

I'm worried the phins will beat us out on Rosen offering there 1st.

That would be great for us if Wormtounge 2.0 and Marv Gruden  wanted to trade #1.  At least it would prevent Wormtounge 2.0 and Marv Gruden from doing another stupid thing which is basically paying more for a guy that much more than he is worth to his current team.  At best, Rosen is just as much about potential as anybody available in the draft.  At worst, Rosen is a bust, a possibility you got evidence that supports.  You have little real evidence that the the QBs available are going to bust or aren't going to be that butt-hurt if they do. You only have a year, maybe two, to decide to fish or cut bait while with the guys in the draft you get at least 2-3.

 

Remember, the only year we had any significant chance to lock down Kirk, we only had one good year of evidence that he could play at a good level in the NFL.

[SemperFi Skins]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

Now, if I'm wrong and Rosen is a superstar about to launch a transcendent ten year career then get him, but if that were the case... would Arizona really be leaning towards dumping him after just a year?

 

If Murray is the type of player that I project him to be, then yes, a new HC would absolutely love to have such an electric player at the helm. Him, David Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald... It's not about 'dumping' Rosen more than it's about picking 'your guy.' If they don't get the comp they wish to receive then they may trade back for a haul of picks and Keep Rosen, or draft Quinnen Williams #1 overall..

[dballer]

3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I still lean towards us NOT drafting a QB this year. The reason is simple. I expect the team to be terrible next year. If it is, I see Gruden and Allen gone. Moreover, I hear next year is the year to get a super-blue chip prospect at QB. So, why should we reach this year for a draft pick or trade for someone a team gave up on after only one year and give up the chance to get a better franchise level QB.

If I'm right, I see next year being 4-12 give or take. That doesn't really change with either McCoy or Rosen at the helm. Do we want to be 4-12 and tied to Rosen and Smith? Sounds shortsighted and dumb.

 

Now, if I'm wrong and Rosen is a superstar about to launch a transcendent ten year career then get him, but if that were the case... would Arizona really be leaning towards dumping him after just a year?

 

To me it all depends on the cost, but "being tied to Rosen" isn't a big deal, he is cheap. If he stinks, nothing changes for the future QB picks. And to me, it is worth taking a chance that he ends up being a good QB. Just saying "i expect us to stink next year so we can get a good QB" is not a good plan in my eyes. I doubt we improve our draft position that much. Even if we roll with Colt, i bet we are competitive, and end with a similar record. 

 

And the fact that they brought in a new young coach that is supposed to be an offensive guru, and they have the chance to draft what could be a franchise changing player...is the reason them getting rid of him doesn't wreak. 

[WelshSkinsFan]

I still feel like the 15th pick is a little high when 1 year of his rookie contract is gone and he is already in less than prime condition after the battering he took behind the all decade worst o line in football.  If we have to give up 15 to get him I would ask for a swap of second round picks to even things out.  The first pick in the 2nd round is coveted and we can get a good player there or even flip it for additional picks.

 

I know this might be sacrilege to some but I would also explore whether they would take a 3rd and Trent.  They badly need to upgrade their line and if they are going all in for Murray they need to address the issue now.  We know that the time to turn the page on Trent is coming and if we can offload the salary and get something in return now might be the time to bite the bullet.

[bakedtater1]

2 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

 Just saying "i expect us to stink next year so we can get a good QB" is not a good plan in my eyes. 

Thank you.. thank you very much!

[SemperFi Skins]

Just now, WelshSkinsFan said:

I still feel like the 15th pick is a little high when 1 year of his rookie contract is gone and he is already in less than prime condition after the battering he took behind the all decade worst o line in football.  If we have to give up 15 to get him I would ask for a swap of second round picks to even things out.  The first pick in the 2nd round is coveted and we can get a good player there or even flip it for additional picks.

 

I know this might be sacrilege to some but I would also explore whether they would take a 3rd and Trent.  They badly need to upgrade their line and if they are going all in for Murray they need to address the issue now.  We know that the time to turn the page on Trent is coming and if we can offload the salary and get something in return now might be the time to bite the bullet.

 

You don't trade away your best offensive lineman for a guy who's known to have terrible pocket presence and rarely senses pressure, similar to Kirk Cousins... That's Rosen. 

[WelshSkinsFan]

Just now, SemperFi Skins said:

 

You don't trade away your best offensive lineman for a guy who's known to have terrible pocket presence and rarely senses pressure, similar to Kirk Cousins... That's Rosen. 

 

You do if that lineman has been battling significant injuries for the past few seasons, is one failed test away from a long term ban and is almost certainly only 1 or 2 seasons from retirement.  

[SemperFi Skins]

Just now, WelshSkinsFan said:

 

You do if that lineman has been battling significant injuries for the past few seasons, is one failed test away from a long term ban and is almost certainly only 1 or 2 seasons from retirement.  

 

agree to disagree on this one. Trent is a bookend tackle protecting the blindside of an immobile QB. He's missed some games, sure, but with an upgrade in LG play we may have one of the better lines in football. 

[goskins10]

13 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I still lean towards us NOT drafting a QB this year. The reason is simple. I expect the team to be terrible next year. If it is, I see Gruden and Allen gone. Moreover, I hear next year is the year to get a super-blue chip prospect at QB. So, why should we reach this year for a draft pick or trade for someone a team gave up on after only one year and give up the chance to get a better franchise level QB.

If I'm right, I see next year being 4-12 give or take. That doesn't really change with either McCoy or Rosen at the helm. Do we want to be 4-12 and tied to Rosen and Smith? Sounds shortsighted and dumb.

 

Now, if I'm wrong and Rosen is a superstar about to launch a transcendent ten year career then get him, but if that were the case... would Arizona really be leaning towards dumping him after just a year?

 

I agree with the first part. I do not want to draft a QB this year. I would prefer they work on other parts of the team this year then target QB next year. 

 

I disagree in terms of Rosen. The biggest part is being "tied" to Rosen is just not much money in terms of the CAP. He will be on his rookie contract with no leverage to ask for a renegotiation. Unless I missed something, the Redskins are only on the hook for his salary and roster bonuses. The signing bonus is just money lost by AZ. That makes his salary CAP hits $1.3M, $2.1M and $2.9M respectively. We would also have an option on a 5 yr. 

 

They will know next yr if he has the potential to be the long term solution. If Alex comes back, salary or not he is the backup if Rosen is playing well. So if they can get him without giving up a 1st rd pick, any years 1st rd pick, then I believe it's definitely worth it. 

 

The only down side is a lost draft pick or two, or maybe a player if that's how they go (assuming Bruce does not get completely fleeced). The up side is up to getting a franchise QB for virtually nothing and keeping our 1st rd picks to get top players. I see as a very low risk very high return option, again only if they do not spend a 1st to get him. 

 

 

 

[dballer]

Just now, WelshSkinsFan said:

 

You do if that lineman has been battling significant injuries for the past few seasons, is one failed test away from a long term ban and is almost certainly only 1 or 2 seasons from retirement.  

 

Why is he retiring? 

[WelshSkinsFan]

1 minute ago, dballer said:

 

Why is he retiring? 

 

He has not played a full season in some time, playing in only 35 of our last 48 games and clearly playing hurt in a number of those that he did play.  He has had some serious injuries and lived with an awful lot of pain for a long time now and so realistically, much as I love him as a Redskin, it is highly likely that he will be hanging it up soon.  I am not desperate to see him go but it may be a smart move if you take the emotion out of it.

[Skinsinparadise]

just listened to an Arizona beat guy on 106.7.  Some of his points:

 

A.  They genuinely haven't made up their mind about what they are going to do.  And that's not them playing games to solicit bidding for the first or for Rosen.

B.  They love Bosa and Q. Williams

C.  They had a good interview with Murray but are putting some stock in this upcoming pro day.

D.  The reporter asked around about trade value for Rosen -- thinks its the mid 2nd round to early 3rd round rage

E.  He isn't down on Rosen at all -- said he had a bad supporting cast.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]