Starting QB 2019???

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

i CAN'T Believe what i am reading here. Did you guys actually watch the NFL outside of Redskins games this year, Josh rosen is straight garbage. I wouldn't give up a 6 th round pick for this guy. WTF

[Spaceman Spiff]

Rosen is terrible.  

 

Guys, I get it, we want a good, young QB.  But this place smells more desperate than teens getting ready for prom night.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Rosen is terrible.  

 

Guys, I get it, we want a good, young QB.  But this place smells more desperate than teens getting ready for prom night.

Thank you, at least now i know im not crazy or the only one who feels that way. Im not being dramatic when i say i can't believe what im reading in this thread, Its insanity.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Thank you, at least now i know im not crazy or the only one who feels that way. Im not being dramatic when i say i can't believe what im reading in this thread, Its insanity.

 

It's very simple.  If the Cardinals felt that Rosen was a legit, #1 franchise QB...if they saw him in the light of a guy like Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Brees...hell, even a Cam Newton type...they wouldn't be flirting with the idea of drafting Murray and slashing his jersey prices at the store.  

 

And if a team as ****ty as the Cardinals feels that way, there's no reason to think a team as dumb as the Redskins could do anything with him to make him great.  We're just as ****ty as they are, it's not like we've got some great QB program to straighten a guy like that out.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Posted this part on the draft thread too

 

 Listened to Cooley on the Qbs on the same podcast.  Looks like he's backing off some on Daniel Jones, said he's not sure about him.  And wouldn't take him at 15.  I recall he said on a recent podcast that he didn't watch a lot of Jones for his initial opinion and needed to watch more.  He is still mega in love with Lock, thinks he's the closest to a sure thing aside from Murray and thinks he will go top 5.  

 

As for Rosen, he's take on him actually was similar to the one I gave on the QB thread with some exceptions. He thinks he has good arm strength, he can sling it.  Can get the ball down the field.  He's a clinic in the pocket -- good feel for the pocket, moves and slides in the pocket well.   Mechanics are A +.  He trusts himself massively and throws in tight windows.  Intermediate throws are fantastic.  Courage in the pocket.  Can avoid sacks well.    He knows protections and you can see him work that on the field. 

 

The negatives -- he throws deep too much, he doesn't throw underneath enough.  In other words turns down too many easy throws for harder throws that are less likely to be complete.  Doesn't go to the check down well.  He waits too many times for his next reads to open versus checking down. Doesn't throw that great on the run with boots.   Needs to keep two hands on the ball -- fumbles too much.  Can be late on throws.   He thinks he can improve on his weaknesses -- meaning they aren't hopeless things that can't be fixed.    He thinks they can build around him.  Clearly he doesn't like him as much as Lock.  Neither do I. 

 

He dovetails with my take that his weakness is making bad decisions-turnovers.  But he is adding that he's passing over easy throws for tougher ones and bad things happen to him on some of those throws.   An INT will happen often with him passing over an easier pass. 

 

For me at 15, if they have to go get a QB, then try to get Lock if they don't have to trade up a ton.  If they are going to 2nd-4th round for a QB and Rosen is an option for similar draft capital then go get Rosen in that context.   I wouldn't trade a first for Rosen.   So am sticking to my position on it.    So am in the like not love category still on Rosen.  I do like Lock better -- but I think i am unique on this (along with Cooley).

 

[SemperFi Skins]

You're putting too much thought in to it... New Head Coach, wants 'his guy' at QB.... If the price they get in return is right, it's a win-win for the Cards...

 

I don't believe it truly speaks to the level of play of Rosen. He's a legit talent but completely different than Murray in terms of athleticism. Kingsbury could be putting together an entirely new, fast-paced offense which would leave Rosen out in the cold, regardless.

 

Just my 2 cents...

[JoggingGod]

23 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

i CAN'T Believe what i am reading here. Did you guys actually watch the NFL outside of Redskins games this year, Josh rosen is straight garbage. I wouldn't give up a 6 th round pick for this guy. WTF

Nice job ignoring the numerous dropped passes and non-existent pocket

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Nice job ignoring the numerous dropped passes and non-existent pocket

 

Agree.  I'd add if you are going to judge a QB, you got to watch full games.  Rosen was a a top ten pick for a reason.  Yeah he could end up being a bum.  The Redskins for their faults seem to have pretty good college scouts and if one is telling Finlay to throw out what happened with the Cards out the window -- and in their mind it wasn't his fault...there is at least a shot they are right.  Cooley's film review mirrored a lot of what i noticed watching him -- he's got to fix his turnover issues if he can do that -- he has a ton of talent to work with.  If he can't, that wouldn't be good.   

 

I am not living or dying with Rosen one way or another.  He's not my first course of action at QB.  But if they can get him without giving up a first rounder, I'd take that ride and see what happens. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Rosen is terrible.  

 

Guys, I get it, we want a good, young QB.  But this place smells more desperate than teens getting ready for prom night.

There’s no doubting the desperation.  I’m not of the belief that any QB can save this franchise from itself.  No matter how good they might be, it would be difficult to carry the baggage of Bruce’s shenanigans.

 

That said, I think if you can actually get Rosen for a third, you have to do it.  I don’t see that happening.  I see the usual, over compensating in an attempt to fill a hole, blowing up in our faces per usual.

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

You're putting too much thought in to it... New Head Coach, wants 'his guy' at QB.... If the price they get in return is right, it's a win-win for the Cards...

 

I don't believe it truly speaks to the level of play of Rosen. He's a legit talent but completely different than Murray in terms of athleticism. Kingsbury could be putting together an entirely new, fast-paced offense which would leave Rosen out in the cold, regardless.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

Totally Agree. Kingsbury can't believe his luck that Murray is just sat there waiting to be picked by the Cards. 

[MartinC]

33 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

i CAN'T Believe what i am reading here. Did you guys actually watch the NFL outside of Redskins games this year, Josh rosen is straight garbage. I wouldn't give up a 6 th round pick for this guy. WTF

 

I live in Phoenix. I watched 5 of his games.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There’s no doubting the desperation.  I’m not of the belief that any QB can save this franchise from itself.  No matter how good they might be, it would be difficult to carry the baggage of Bruce’s shenanigans.

 

That said, I think if you can actually get Rosen for a third, you have to do it.  I don’t see that happening.  I see the usual, over compensating in an attempt to fill a hole, blowing up in our faces per usual.

 

No you don't!  There's no need! 

 

You're absolutely correct, no QB can save this franchise from itself, therefore Rosen isn't needed.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  The Redskins biggest issue is them selling each and every year that this is a season where they'll be good.  And they're gonna do it again this year.  They're gonna get an average QB with some sort of name recognition and try to make believe that this is gonna be a good year.

 

They are so afraid....PETRIFIED....to do what needs to be done.  Which is to blow it all up and build it properly.  As long as Dan and Bruce are here, that'll never happen.  Anything that happens between now and then is just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

[MartinC]

24 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 it's not like we've got some great QB program to straighten a guy like that out.

 

 

Jay Gruden has made Andy Dalton and Kirk Cousins very very rich.

 

Not saying his some kind of QB whisperer - but he knows how to get production from QBs within a WCO. Rosen would be a great fit for his system and the most talented QB he has worked with in that traditional WCO mold.

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

They are so afraid....PETRIFIED....to do what needs to be done.  Which is to blow it all up and build it properly.  As long as Dan and Bruce are here, that'll never happen.  Anything that happens between now and then is just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

I actually agree with you on the rebuild. I just really liked Rosen coming out and still do and think he could absolutely be a corner stone part of that rebuild and at a cap price which allows us to add some supporting pieces. I would FAR rather do something for Rosen than throw the moon on a stick at getting the first pick to take Murray. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

Jay Gruden has made Andy Dalton and Kirk Cousins very very rich.

 

Not saying his some kind of QB whisperer - but he knows how to get production from QBs within a WCO. Rosen would be a great fit for his system and the most talented QB he has worked with in that traditional WCO mold.

 

You do have a point.

 

But as much as I liked Kirk and thought they Skins were dumb for not locking him up years ago...its not like Kirk could overcome the stench of the rest of the team.  Same for Dalton at the Bungles.  

 

 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

45 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

i CAN'T Believe what i am reading here. Did you guys actually watch the NFL outside of Redskins games this year, Josh rosen is straight garbage. I wouldn't give up a 6 th round pick for this guy. WTF

 

39 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Rosen is terrible.  

 

Guys, I get it, we want a good, young QB.  But this place smells more desperate than teens getting ready for prom night.

 

I am just wondering if you guys were saying the same thing about Goff after his rookie season? He started fewer games than Rosen. But equally stunk up the joint. It is tough to call a guy "garbage" and "terrible" after their rookie season. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

No you don't!  There's no need! 

 

You're absolutely correct, no QB can save this franchise from itself, therefore Rosen isn't needed.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  The Redskins biggest issue is them selling each and every year that this is a season where they'll be good.  And they're gonna do it again this year.  They're gonna get an average QB with some sort of name recognition and try to make believe that this is gonna be a good year.

 

They are so afraid....PETRIFIED....to do what needs to be done.  Which is to blow it all up and build it properly.  As long as Dan and Bruce are here, that'll never happen.  Anything that happens between now and then is just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

My opinion is tied directly to the assumption that we are stuck with Bruce.  Obviously I’d love nothing more than for Dan to cut his losses and give the keys to the franchise to a more responsible driver.

 

But if I’m Bruce and Jay, who are practically on their deathbed, I’m not worried about the future.  I’m worried about right now and if I have the chance to turn chicken doo doo to bland chicken salad by trading a third for a first round talent at QB, I’m doing it.

 

 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

 

I am just wondering if you guys were saying the same thing about Goff after his rookie season? He started fewer games than Rosen. But equally stunk up the joint. It is tough to call a guy "garbage" and "terrible" after their rookie season. 

 

Not every QB that starts off like Goff has the turnaround that he did.  And he DOES have a QB whisperer on his sideline, someone that's talking to him through his helmet until he gets up to the line of scrimmage.  

 

 

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

My opinion is tied directly to the assumption that we are stuck with Bruce.  Obviously I’d love nothing more than for Dan to cut his losses and give the keys to the franchise to a more responsible driver.

 

But if I’m Bruce and Jay, who are practically on their deathbed, I’m not worried about the future.  I’m worried about right now and if I have the chance to turn chicken doo doo to bland chicken salad by trading a third for a first round talent at QB, I’m doing it.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep, and that's the issue.  Bruce and Jay are fighting for their jobs...well, maybe just Jay.  They gotta win.

 

The Redskins should just do the Spiff plan.  Draft a QB in every round.  We've got...9 picks?  Pick 9 quarterbacks.  Odds are one will shake out.

[clskinsfan]

Here is an interesting stat for you. Rosen had a different offensive coordinator every season in college. With the Cards going a different direction at HC Rosen is going into his 5th season in a row with a different OC. I am sure the guy is looking for a little stability at this point. And lord knows Bruce isnt going anywhere any time soon.

[Stadium-Armory]

I would be surprised if Arizona moved on from Rosen.

 

Considering his low salary number and the draft capital they have invested in him, it would take a once-in-a-generation type player to make me move on from him after only one year.

 

Is Murray that guy? Maybe. But not enough of a lock for me to take that leap.

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

13 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

You do have a point.

 

But as much as I liked Kirk and thought they Skins were dumb for not locking him up years ago...its not like Kirk could overcome the stench of the rest of the team.  Same for Dalton at the Bungles.  

 

 

 

 

 

Kirk couldn’t overcome the stench of the 13-3 Minnesota Vikings.

 

Rosen is 10 times the prospect that Captain Backfoot was.  I’d expect him to do quite well here in Jays offense.

[Spaceman Spiff]

17 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

 

I actually agree with you on the rebuild. I just really liked Rosen coming out and still do and think he could absolutely be a corner stone part of that rebuild and at a cap price which allows us to add some supporting pieces. I would FAR rather do something for Rosen than throw the moon on a stick at getting the first pick to take Murray. 

 

I get the reasons for liking Rosen.  Honestly, if we traded for him, I wouldn't be terribly upset and I agree that I'd rather get him than trying to elbow our way in to take Murray.  The fact that we've got a bunch of picks this year scares me cause I think there's a chance we'll try to trade UP.  

 

I just don't think we've got anything in place to turn Rosen the way around the Rams made Goff perform.

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Kirk couldn’t overcome the stench of the 13-3 Minnesota Vikings.

 

Rosen is 10 times the prospect that Captain Backfoot was.  I’d expect him to do quite well here in Jays offense.

 

Stole my thunder. I was just going to ask him how the stench of that incredible talent on offense up in Minny being wasted smelled to Kirk.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Kirk couldn’t overcome the stench of the 13-3 Minnesota Vikings.

 

Rosen is 10 times the prospect that Captain Backfoot was.  I’d expect him to do quite well here in Jays offense.

 

I'm still trying to figure out if Kirk peed in your gas tank or something 

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I just don't think we've got anything in place to turn Rosen the way around the Rams made Goff perform.

 

Whoever plays QB needs much better speed and play making ability at receiver and some luck with injuries along that O'line to be successful. I actually think we have a pretty good offensive scheme and staff.

[TradeTheBeal!]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I'm still trying to figure out if Kirk peed in your gas tank or something 

 

I was about to ask if you’d been sniffing glue.