2018 Draft Day Thread

[SkinFanInMinn]

I noticed some of the grades tended to be skewed by how the teams are viewed also.  The Eagles and Cowboys automatically get better grades because they’ve been good the last couple of years.  The Skins get the opposite effect.  Lower grades until they prove it out with wins.  Not all graders of course, but definitely some of them.

[Gibbit]

who cares about grades.....who here doesn't know we did good (besides that grumpy old Vikings fan) 

[Riggo#44]

3 hours ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

SI gave us a C+ on our draft. Interesting..

SI is relevant one issue a year in February.

[SWFLSkins]

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

[SkinsGuy]

4 hours ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

SI gave us a C+ on our draft. Interesting..

 

A  worthless rag like SI giving the Redskins a C is like getting an A+ from anyone else.   

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 Positing the Payne pick as a bad choice because of Derwin James being available is fools gold.  Has anyone stopped to think maybe Derwin James is totally overrated? Looks like at least 16 teams felt that way. To mention this guy in the same breath as ST is absolutely blasphemous. And to paint Payne as a not worth the 13th pick B/c James was there is IMO silly. 

 

Take a good look at James’ body of actual work and you won’t find this generational football talent. You will find a A+ body with amazing measurables, but not the instincts, gameplay, and game changer some people are claiming. This is all in addition to having a significant injury history. Just my 2cents.

 

 

Using the same logic we should stop talking about Jonathan Allen as being a great-lucky pick.  16 teams passed on him, enough said?  Heck a lot of the reports on Payne acceded he's no Jonathan Allen so what does Allen at 17 say about Payne? -- especially considering some reputable draft geeks like Daniel Jeremiah in their last mocks had Payne drop to the 2nd round?

 

Having said that I don't care where the respective players were taken.  Guice for example to me is the 2nd best RB in this draft by a mile while I am not a big Kerryon Johnson guy who was taken before Guice -- does where Kerryon Johnson taken vindicate that he's the better player?  Not in my book. 

 

I don't feel like trashing Payne because I do think he's a good player.  I just don't think he's a great player at least now.  I watched at least 8 games of his and to me he plays too upright at times and gets shoved out of the A gap (especially pushed to the left) too much for my liking to be blown away by the dude.  I just don't see him as the unmovable rock who just anchors his spot and doesn't give ground.  Sometimes, yes.  But sometimes, no. 

 

I was listening to Portis actually yesterday and he talked about why he likes but doesn't love Payne and that was because when he was studying the RBs (as a paid consultant to the team) he noticed the better guards in college where able to handle Payne too much for his liking where they were able to open a crease by moving him out of the A gap. 

 

Maybe Tomsula can coach him up better to hold the point of attack better and stay low.  I was at training camp last year and was closest to the D line exercises and Tomsula was obsessed with getting his D lineman to play low.  He was yelling at Lanier a lot, it was funny to watch.

 

At the same token, I can see the Redskins thinking Payne is talented so wait till Tomusla coaches him up.  I can go on that ride.  But I am not sold that he was a beast in Alabama to the degree he was worth the 13th pick in the draft.

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, madden lot said:

I bet they gave giants eagles cowboys all A's

The guy on NFL.com, gave us a B+ which was last in our division, He gave the Giants an A- which is fine but he also gave Philly and Dallas an A- and I just don't see it, especially not Philly.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930225/article/2018-nfl-draft-final-quicksnap-grades-for-all-32-teams

[Going Commando]

24 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

The guy on NFL.com, gave us a B+ which was last in our division, He gave the Giants an A- which is fine but he also gave Philly and Dallas an A- and I just don't see it, especially not Philly.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000930225/article/2018-nfl-draft-final-quicksnap-grades-for-all-32-teams

 

Gave the Eagles an A on day one for trading a first round pick for a future second and second round positioning.  Lol.  They got crap trade chart value for a team trying to get their QB when everyone else got far better value for round 1 QB trade ups.

Also gave them an A for day two even thought they only made one pick, and it was for a tight end.

We'd get an F for our draft if we only made one pick in the top 100 and just five picks overall and one of them had never played football before.

[redrobert]

I’m into these Draft grades like most of us. That said, the TRUE measure of this Draft Class won’t be known for several years.

 

i think we did very well.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@Skinsinparadise 

 

i agree on the Allen point. He dropped for a reason, think it was long term injury concerns (shoulder?). So he was what he was, 17th pick.  I don’t judge a player as better cuz he is a higher pick per se, in the end results over seasons will determine that. 

 

Judging the merits of Payne at 13 is open game. I’ll just say that not one reputable pundit said he was a reach at 13. So he went about where people thought he would go. 

 

Daniel Jeremiah in Payne’s combine workout video says he’s a top 15 player.. In the same video Mayock calls him the most talented lineman to come out of Alabama in the last 5-6 years. Kiper has him as the drafts best DT in late March.

 

There are questions though, he’s no slam dunk by any stretch. Will he be the dominant force he was in the championship game who will garner mutiple pro bowl appearances? Or the sometimes pushed back upright lots to learn defender you’ve pointed out he might be.?

 

Even if it’s a mix of the two,  Payne 

is a nice piece of clay to work with, FOR US, IMO he was exactly what we needed. 

 

 

[Burgold]

3 minutes ago, redrobert said:

I’m into these Draft grades like most of us. That said, the TRUE measure of this Draft Class won’t be known for several years.

 

i think we did very well.

This. After all, RGIII was a unanimous first ballot HOF player following his rookie year and Troy Aikman was a bum who should be cut.

 

We'll also get the freshman grades which won't necessarily tell the story of their NFL career, but are still important especially for the team's success this year.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

Even if it’s a mix of the two,  Payne 

is a nice piece of clay to work with, FOR US, IMO he was exactly what we needed. 

 

 

 

I know what the draft geeks think about Payne to a tee.  I can easily puts walls of information here that in concept challenges him as not being the 13th best player in the draft -- including a gazillion mocks showing Payne nowhere near 13 in their projected mocks.  And it least 4 mocks late in the game that had Payne in the 2nd round.  But I won't do it.  I don't want to be labeled a Payne hater because I don't hate the player but I think we could of found a comparable NT later in the draft and gotten a better player at 13. My take on Payne though has nothing to do with mocks. I just watched a lot of Alabama.  My son is a big Alabama guy.   Not saying I am right about him, who knows, but I share the take of some of his critics who see him as a good, not great player. 

 

But I agree with you point about "need".  If we were drafting in the first round based on need its an A plus pick.  Nose tackle and RB were clearly our top needs. 

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@Skinsinparadise 

 

i agree on the Allen point. He dropped for a reason, think it was long term injury concerns (shoulder?). So he was what he was, 17th pick.  I don’t judge a player as better cuz he is a higher pick per se, in the end results over seasons will determine that. 

 

Judging the merits of Payne at 13 is open game. I’ll just say that not one reputable pundit said he was a reach at 13. So he went about where people thought he would go. 

 

Daniel Jeremiah in Payne’s combine workout video says he’s a top 15 player.. In the same video Mayock calls him the most talented lineman to come out of Alabama in the last 5-6 years. Kiper has him as the drafts best DT in late March.

 

There are questions though, he’s no slam dunk by any stretch. Will he be the dominant force he was in the championship game who will garner mutiple pro bowl appearances? Or the sometimes pushed back upright lots to learn defender you’ve pointed out he might be.?

 

Even if it’s a mix of the two,  Payne 

is a nice piece of clay to work with, FOR US, IMO he was exactly what we needed. 

 

 

 

The bolded is absolutely bizarre to me. Payne isn't anywhere near the force that Allen was. You check out a highlight video of Allen without knowing what number he was and you'd know within 20 seconds without anyone having to tell you. On an Alabama DL that was stacked he was a superstar. He dominated in pretty much every aspect of the game. Payne simply isn't the same. He is definitely a solid player but doesn't really stand out IMO (outside of his playoff and bowl game performance).

 

Again, I'm not saying Payne is a bad player. I think he is and will end up being a good player for us. I just don't see "greatness" there. But I'd absolutely love to be wrong and see our coaches tap into things he hasn't really done as much of and bring it out of him. Hopefully they saw that in the film and believe they can do so.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@Skinsinparadise

 

“Best” is relative, and often subjective. 

Some players transcend the definitions and are clearly “best.” I don’t feel we past on any of those players. I could be totally wrong and that’s ok. ??‍♂️ I don’t think I we choose Payne over Minka if he was there. I applaud you and all the other posters that really hashed this stuff out throughout the process. It was fun to follow along; it’s only now that he’s ours that I’ve taken a hard look at Payne. I do not think we will look back and regret taking him at 13, I think we’ll be happy as can be.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@mistertim

 

i hear you, but would say that the performance in the championship game was pretty great. For a DT to make that kind of impact isn’t easy, it suggests “special.” 

Can we get this guy to special, often? I dont think Tomsula gives the thumbs up on the guy If the answer was no, I don’t think we pick him..

I’m expecting special, 40+ tackles 4+ sacks and improvement in our defensive ranking to a min of 15th(this one is not all on his shoulders, I’m not crazy!) lol...

 

He was really good as a college DL, I think we think he’s gonna be a great pro, his best football is still to come.

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

“Best” is relative, and often subjective. 

Some players transcend the definitions and are clearly “best.” I don’t feel we past on any of those players. I could be totally wrong and that’s ok. ??‍♂️ I don’t think I we choose Payne over Minka if he was there. I applaud you and all the other posters that really hashed this stuff out throughout the process. It was fun to follow along; it’s only now that he’s ours that I’ve taken a hard look at Payne. I do not think we will look back and regret taking him at 13, I think we’ll be happy as can be.

 

Sure.  Yeah definitely all subjective.  I don't claim to be some personnel guru -- far from it.  But I've been posting things on and off about Payne for almost 6 months.  So it would be weird for me to back off my opinion just because the Redskins took a guy.   I try to stick to my takes for better or worse.  Otherwise what fun is it to put in all the work if you just throw it out the window in the afterglow of the pick. 

 

If you see my posts on Guice, I am practically selling him as the second coming.  Love the player.  Early in the process I probably posted more on Guice and Payne than any player.  So its ironic for me that we got both guys.  For Guice over time my love of him as a player just grew to man crush level. Payne went from man crush to liking the dude but not loving him.

 

I love the concept of Payne so I get some of the gushing on the thread.  Not talking here about you but its clear with some based on reading the content on all the posts on this thread they haven't watched him or not seen him much (but some of the ones who like him did put in the word so not generalizing it as everyone) -- but the concept is exciting -- Alabama, NT, pal of Jonathan Allen, we can find some draft geeks who really dig him -- so we love him based on all of that, exciting stuff, so don't spoil the party.  We got a NT from Alabama!  I dig that narrative myself.  But I can't help recalling the games I watched and its not that he struggled but in some he was far from this stalwart unmovable object.   And there are a share of people who agree with that take so i am not exactly going on off on a limb with no net.

 

Having said that I think it will perceived as a home run pick because the improvement at nose tackle will likely be tremendous.  If I recall Ziggy Hood is ranked dead last by PFF as a run stopper, or something like that.  I've been re-watching some games via coaches tape and have seen a couple of plays where they have Hood play 0 and the R-DE and L-DE (post Jonathan Allen) play tight 2 shade -- in other words multiple guys ganging up to close the A gap in 3rd and short distance -- and the opponent's RB got the first down anyway running right up the gut.  Really pathetic.  I think a healthy Jonathan Allen and Payne will help fix that.  

 

As for not regretting it, depends on perspective.  Hyperbole to make a point:  Kerrigan as a player has been really good.  In a vacuum do we regret drafting him?  Of course not.  If you look at who they could have taken over him if they didn't trade back -- yeah in that context, the pick doesn't look nearly as good but not terrible either since Kerrigan is really good.  I think we will find something similar here.  Will see.  

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 3:28 PM, Koolblue13 said:

I'm with you. I'm firmly in the big Phil camp.

Why are you yelling?

Is it that you have nothing intelligent to add???????? 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@Skinsinparadise 

 

Every player has some unforgiving tape. Reps they’d like back. Tomsula is key here for me, I’m good if he’s good.

I actually mentioned Kerrigan in another Payne take. I see him similarly as “safe” with nothing overtly special but really good players.  I do, however, believe Payne has more upside athletically and if he matches Kerrigans work habits which his time at Alabama suggests he will, could be great. ??

 

With the 13th pick I know we are all looking for a hall of famer, show stopper, franchise changer but sometimes what you need is a guy who can just stop the damn run! Lol. Maybe he can be more too, we’ll find out soon enough.

[Thinking Skins]

My excitement for Payne over James and Edmunds and even Vea was based on potential. I hate that word when there isn't much film to match it, but i think first that when you've got a close call between a dominant lineman and any other position, you take the lineman. It's different if we're talking about once in a lifetime players, but the best I've heard about Edmunds and James is things like playmaker. I love guys with speed or who can get sacks or ints, but i think we have a lot of that on the roster. And that may sound like a 'need' type talk, but it really means that there are more players like those two than players like Fletcher Cox or Haloti Ngata or Calais Campbell, and we've seen those guys turn defenses around. What did Ray Lewis say about the Ravens defense before they drafted Ngata? Something to the effect of if you want his numbers to increase, get the guards off him. 

 

Is Payne that guy? Based on stats, I'd say no, but based on athletic ability its possible. And it then goes to what could be become. I talked yesterday about the potential of udfas and how they're developmental signings generally. But what if the player we see in the championship game is who Payne becomes? If that's who we got, then it's no comparison between the potential picks. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Various stuff on Payne from Jan, Feb and March...It is extremely difficult to not love this pick.

 

 

The scoop: "I think A'Shawn Robinson was more talented than Da'Ron (Payne) and I know Robinson had better (tackle-for-loss) and sack production than him, but Payne plays harder and I think he'll be the better NFL player. He's thick and strong, but he's also a really good athlete and I see his best football in front of him." -- NFL executive on Alabama DT Da'Ron Payne

 

The skinny: Payne showed off his athletic ability with an interception and a touchdown reception against Clemson in the Sugar Bowl. Payne is built like a wall of granite with elite body control and contact balance at the point of attack. While he's regarded as a run-stuffing specialist, he has the potential to improve as a pass rusher if he adds to his rush repertoire.

 

 

****************

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-daron-payne-dominant-in-college-football-playoff/

 

Tua Tagovailoa is the rightful talk of Alabama's fifth national title during the Nick Saban era. Just don't forget about the all-time performance put on by defensive tackle Da'Ron Payne. The former top recruit set up camp in Georgia's backfield for the duration of the game. 

 

He was a force against the run, which is always the case, and more important for his draft stock, he got after quarterback Jake Fromm often. 

Although Payne is a true junior with room to grow, he undoubtedly made the most of the intense playoff spotlight. The first round now seems likely for Payne, not a best-case scenario.

 

27. Da'Ron Payne, DT, Alabama

Payne was absolutely dominant against Clemson. Then he took that dominance to another level in the national title game. Against the run, Payne is as refined as any defensive lineman in the class, as he plays with proper leverage, anchoring strength and NFL-caliber block-shedding ability. He flashed getting to the passer in the playoffs too, which was the only knock on his game. Oh, and Payne will only be 20 when he's drafted.

 

(here's something extra thrown in)

 

11. Derrius Guice, RB, LSU

According to Pro Football Focus, Guice forced seven missed tackles against Notre Dame in the Citrus Bowl. Clockwork for him. On the season, Guice had four games with at least five forced missed tackles. One can reasonably argue that Guice is more impressive than Barkley between the tackles, and he's probably more powerful through tackles. He just lacks elite long speed.

 

****************

 

https://247sports.com/Bolt/NFL-Combine-2018-Mike-Mayock-on-Alabama-DL-DaRon-Payne-as-first-round-pick-115833246

 

Alabama pass rusher Da'Ron Payne held his own with impressive numbers during Sunday's on-field testing at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis, backing up what he's shown on film as one of the draft's top interior defenders.

 

An expert run-stopper who emerged as a quarterback harasser late in his SEC career, Payne is hoping to solidify a first-round grade with a stellar Pro Day.

"Da’Ron Payne’s ability to rush the quarterback is what’s going to get him paid," Mayock said during Sunday's NFL Network coverage. "He gets into the offensive line extremely quick off the snap. That get-off and explosion. He’s unbelievable in the run game and got better and better against the pass. When the guard pulls, the center has no chance at blocking him.

 

"His ability to affect the pass game will ultimately determine his value. If teams feel he can rush the passer on third down, he’ll be a first round pick."

 

****************

 

 

To boost his draft stock even further after being a dominant force in the middle for Nick Saban’s Alabama defense, Payne had a great combine performance. He ran a 4.91 40-yard dash and 1.67 10-yard. To put that into perspective, Payne’s 10-yard sprint was a hundredth of a second faster than defensive end Joey Bosa taken number three overall by the Los Angeles Chargers in the 2016 draft as an edge rusher.

 

Payne will likely be fighting with Vea for the number one drafted defensive tackle this year after Maurice Hurst was unable to run drills at the combine due to a heart condition. Vea will likely be a better fit under a 3-4 scheme as an absolute mauler in the run game. Payne will succeed in a 4-3 due to his size and being more versatile to help in the pass rushing attack.

 

According to Pro Football Focus Draft Guide, Payne significantly improved in both the run and passing game each of his three years at Alabama. His run defense was always strong as he finished 2017 with an 85.9 grade. His pass rushing rating shot up in 2017 from a 73.9 in 2016 to 83.9. While Payne is not an elite pass rusher, he is definitely not a slouch either. That’s not to say that he can’t become an elite pass rusher at the next level with some coaching.

 

When teams left him one on one with the center it almost always turned out bad for the offense. His quick burst off of the line mixing with his athleticism and hand fighting skills allowed him to run right past single blockers. Payne caused 22 hurries in 2017 which almost doubled his 2016 pass rush production of 12.

 

****************

 

http://www.detroitlions.com/news/road-to-the-draft/article-1/Meet-the-Prospect-DaRon-Payne/c7238d47-8236-440e-ae4a-a16003adad3a

 

Key observations: Payne only had three sacks in three years at Alabama, but that’s not uncommon for interior defenders in Alabama's two-gap system. Payne increased his quarterback pressures from 15 in 2016 to 27 this past season, per NFL.com statistics. Payne had his first career interception and touchdown catch against Clemson in the Sugar Bowl.

 

What they had to say about him: “Payne possesses one of the most impressive combinations of strength and athleticism that we've seen from an interior lineman. He will be the premier run-stuffer in this draft, but he may have enough in the pass rushing toolbox to project as a better pro than college pass rusher. Payne is a game-ready starter who immediately upgrades a defense's ability to slow the run. If teams view him as just a run-down player, then his draft value could fall a little, but he could become a Pro Bowl defender early in his career.” – Lance Zierlein

 

How he stacks up: Scouts Inc. lists Payne as the overall 15th best prospect in the draft class. He checks in at No. 20 on Mel Kiper Jr.’s Big Board.

 

****************

 

https://www.fantasylabs.com/articles/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-daron-payne/

 

Payne’s lack of career numbers behind the line of scrimmage don’t quite do him justice, as he regularly set up shop in the opponent’s backfield regardless of the number of men tasked with blocking him. A strong showing at the combine could quantify what appears to be high-level short area quickness, which could help bring to light his ceiling as a tantalizingly talented interior pass rusher, considering the size and strength Payne already possesses. Even if he never becomes one of the league’s elite inside pass rushers, Payne carries a high floor as a dominant inside presence against the run.

 

Even with potential limitations as a pass rusher, Payne could become the 12th defensive linemen no older than 21 years and weighing 300-plus pounds to be drafted in the first round over the past 25 years. The last four have established themselves as great players, but they didn’t necessarily prove to be gamebreakers at getting to the quarterback during their first two seasons.

• Kenny Clark: 2.5 sacks
• Malcolm Brown: 6 sacks
• Corey Liuget: 8 sacks
• Marcell Dareus: 11 sacks
•  

Payne has the ability to help a good defensive line become great against the run, but it might be asking a lot to expect an Aaron Donald or Ndamukong Suh-esque impact against the pass right away. Still, defensive line coaches all over the league will undoubtedly line up to draft a young specimen with enough strength and size to play a long time in this league. There might not be a defensive linemen in the draft with a higher ceiling than Payne, and his floor certainly doesn’t appear to be all that low either.

 

****************

https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/nfl-draft-2018-alabama-players-mock-draft-daron-payne-minkah-fitzpatrick

 

Payne has made a strong case to be the first defensive tackle selected.

 

Not only did he finish his collegiate career well while helping the Crimson Tide win the national championship, but he beat out his top competition in a key event at last month’s NFL combine. While Vita Vea of Washington was thought to be a more-potent pass-rusher with better explosion, Payne topped him in the 40-yard dash and had a better 10-yard split.

 

“Him showing that he has explosive athletic traits at 6-2½ and 311 pounds — he runs a 1.67 which is a really good 10-yard split, and a 4.95 and anything sub-5 at that size is awesome,” ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said. “Across the board he had a really good workout.

 

“I do think that Da’Ron Payne helped himself, simply because if you just look at his sack numbers, it’s certainly not overwhelming. But if you study the tape, you see a guy who’s really highly disruptive.”

 

[JaxJoe]

I see now why we didn't draft a guard this year.  We are waiting for RP3 - Richie Petitbon, OG for Alabama who will be a senior (RS) next year.  He is related to someone we know... can't quite think of the name at the moment.

 

https://rolltide.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4665

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

8 hours ago, THE HAMMER'IN HOG said:

Is it that you have nothing intelligent to add???????? 

Please stop. 

[Burgold]

Just a side observation, through much of the draft process I kept reading how both Vea and Payne would be stretches at 13. How either would be okay if we traded down into the twenties to snag one, but at 13 it'd be kind of dumb. Now, I admire people sticking to their horses, but... one went at twelve and the other at 13. I think the NFL disagrees with fandom.

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Most were a B, I saw one A,, I don't get it, WE got two first rounders, a third round pick back, and some real potential late in the draft, That's an A all day in my book. 

 

The broadcast guys were giving the Redskins props, I really don't understand the other grades either.  Payne was not a reach, had D James been off the board as expected I don't see how many would have had a problem with the pick. As mentioned he has a very low bust potential and fills a huge need.  Then as you said we got a 1st round RB, another huge need, while still trading back.  I'm trying to figure out why Settle was graded as a 5th round pick, he looks better than that from what I've seen.