2018 Draft Day Thread

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

The guy at USA Today gives us a C-, seriously?

 

Nate Davis - USA Today

Washington Redskins: C-

First-round DL Da'Ron Payne is made to order for the league's worst run defense, and fifth-round NT Tim Settle will also help. In second-round RB Derrius Guice, Washington took a player who could add offensive rocket fuel ... assuming concerns that apparently scared so many teams off prove unfounded. T Geron Christian and S Troy Apke are physically gifted but unlikely to contribute for some time.

[Thinking Skins]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Doug is fun because I sense he spills more than they'd like him too.

I read your comment and then this and just laughed at the thought that maybe this isn't the image we want of Jay.

 

 

Jay was beating the boards for Trey Quinn @treyquinn8 early, sometimes you gotta ignore Jay & let him do what he gotta do. You dont pick him 1 time n he might walk out the room on you, but he comes back smiling because you got the guy he wanted - Doug Williams #Redskins @team980

— Scott Jennings (@HunterLoganX) April 30, 2018

[Skinsinparadise]

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 5m5 minutes ago

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Ian Rapoport Retweeted Andrew Brandt

The #Redskins moved on pretty quickly from a former free agent signing

Ian Rapoport added,

Andrew BrandtVerified account @AndrewBrandt

Other side of the Draft: after drafting two defensive tackles, @Redskins release Terrell McClain. Four-year $21 million deal last year turns into one year, $7.5 million.

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 5m5 minutes ago

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Ian Rapoport Retweeted Andrew Brandt

The #Redskins moved on pretty quickly from a former free agent signing

Ian Rapoport added,

Andrew BrandtVerified account @AndrewBrandt

Other side of the Draft: after drafting two defensive tackles, @Redskins release Terrell McClain. Four-year $21 million deal last year turns into one year, $7.5 million.

 

 

 

 

Is that really how much he got paid though? I thought he got his money from last year but not the roster bonus from this year.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I read your comment and then this and just laughed at the thought that maybe this isn't the image we want of Jay.

 

 

Jay was beating the boards for Trey Quinn @treyquinn8 early, sometimes you gotta ignore Jay & let him do what he gotta do. You dont pick him 1 time n he might walk out the room on you, but he comes back smiling because you got the guy he wanted - Doug Williams #Redskins @team980

— Scott Jennings (@HunterLoganX) April 30, 2018

 

LOL, yeah I saw it.  You definitely have stories changing.  Not a big deal though.  Doug on 980 at 9:30 am saying they had 4-5 offers, in his press conference it was if I recall 2 or 3.  Jay saying it was unanimous for the 13th pick.  But then being wishy washy I thought in his comments after the pick, some alluding to he was tops on the board, other comments alluding to maybe he wasn't.   Doug saying (though I will re-listen to it so maybe I misheard him) that there were multiple people in the room wanting to go elsewhere with the 13th pick in the draft.

 

Beat guys also inferring that he wasn't tops on their board.  Does it matter or not?  Probably not.  But I think the odds are pretty good there was some disagreement in that room for that pick.

 

 

JP Finlay‏Verified account @JPFinlayNBCS 3m3 minutes ago

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#Redskins also cut AJ Francis, per source. New defensive line coming in Washington.

[Tay]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

LOL, yeah I saw it.  You definitely have stories changing.  Not a big deal though.  Doug on 980 at 9:30 am saying they had 4-5 offers, in his press conference it was if I recall 2 or 3.  Jay saying it was unanimous for the 13th pick.  But then being wishy washy I thought in his comments after the pick, some alluding to he was tops on the board, other comments alluding to maybe he wasn't.   Doug saying (though I will re-listen to it so maybe I misheard him) that there were multiple people in the room wanting to go elsewhere with the 13th pick in the draft.

 

Beat guys also inferring that he wasn't tops on their board.  Does it matter or not?  Probably not.  But I think the odds are pretty good there was some disagreement in that room for that pick.

 

From all the reporting, they came to a unanimous decision, but there was debate between James/Payne. Same grade was on the players. They ultimately with the bigger need.

 

Craig Hoffman went into a little more detail on his show this past weekend. His story is generally consistent with what we've heard from Doug, Jay, JP Finlay, etc.

[Thinking Skins]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

#Redskins also cut AJ Francis, per source. New defensive line coming in Washington.

 

Yeah I saw this happening. Question is will Hood be here. I think its too early to cut him because he is depth but I don't think we have the space for him either.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Doug Williams: "The big boys make the little boys look better. The little boys don't make big boys look better."

— John Keim (@john_keim) April 30, 2018

 

All true.  But as Danny Rouhier just said are they better with Hankins AND Derwin James. Or Just Payne?   I don't look at any move in a vacuum.  I've been screaming for D line on the Fa thread.  Ironically the guys I were picking on were McClain, Francis (him not being a real NT solution) and Hood.  Hood so far is the last man standing from those three.

3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Yeah I saw this happening. Question is will Hood be here. I think its too early to cut him because he is depth but I don't think we have the space for him either.

 

I wonder about Hood in part because Keim among others have said they think he's a better 5 technique guy than 0-1 but he's been forced into the line of duty at 0-1.

[skinny21]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Yeah I saw this happening. Question is will Hood be here. I think its too early to cut him because he is depth but I don't think we have the space for him either.

Yeah, especially with 2 guys that can play NT.  He’d have to beat out McGee, or there would have to be an injury.  

 

Somewhat surprised we cut those two guys this early, but they probably want to give them a chance to latch on elsewhere.  

[Thinking Skins]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

All true.  But as Danny Rouhier just said are they better with Hankins AND Derwin James. Or Just Payne?   I don't look at any move in a vacuum.  I've been screaming for D line on the Fa thread.  Ironically the guys I were picking on were McClain, Francis (him not being a real NT solution) and Hood.  Hood so far is the last man standing from those three.

I know we disagree on this as to whether its right, but I really think our FO has a anti (or at least minimal) FA philosophy. Particularly at DT where we've been burned over and over again Stubby, Wilkerson, and Haynesworth are the biggest names, but also McClain lately, Hood, Reyes, its all over the spectrum. Add to that the idea of re-signing the trio of 2016 picks and I think there's more to the equation. Like, what happens if we start to re-sign players in July? Is that something that we wouldn't have been able to do with Hatcher?

[oraphus]

It sounds like if they knew they could get Settle in the 5th, they would not have taken Payne at 13 or would have traded down. I am actually glad it worked out the way it did though. Tired of overpaying retreads from other teams and our D being consistently bad year over year. Build a young talented line in the draft and have them on the cheap for the next 4 years. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Tay said:

 

From all the reporting, they came to a unanimous decision, but there was debate between James/Payne. Same grade was on the players. They ultimately with the bigger need.

 

Craig Hoffman went into a little more detail on his show this past weekend. His story is generally consistent with what we've heard from Doug, Jay, JP Finlay, etc.

 

I'll re-listen to the last doug interview shortly and see if I misheard him. 

 

In that Doug interview I could have sworn he flat out said there were people in that room who wanted them to draft another player. 

 

As for Craig, I listened to him Sunday, too.  I also listened to him before that. He initially said it was a tie but the tie breaker went to position of need.  But then when pushed on it by someone he admitted that he wasn't told that, he was just told by one of their scouts it was between James and Payne -- and Hoffman said he just assumed that's how they made their tie breaker choice but he wasn't told that part of it specifically.  On Sunday, he was going the tie breaker thing again but didn't say he knows that outright for sure. 

 

The beat guys have hinted they aren't not sure Payne was tops on their board -- forgot which one said it but one said (maybe Tandler) they panicked a bit when Vea went and saw the Giants took Barkley. 

 

I'll re-listen to Doug's interview to see if I heard him right but if I did, I'd trust it 100%.  It would be weird for him to make it up.  Not his style.  Doug seems ultra honest maybe to a fault I gather to the rest of the FO.  

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, Tay said:

 

From all the reporting, they came to a unanimous decision, but there was debate between James/Payne. Same grade was on the players. They ultimately with the bigger need.

 

Craig Hoffman went into a little more detail on his show this past weekend. His story is generally consistent with what we've heard from Doug, Jay, JP Finlay, etc.

 

Well didn't we see multiple insiders say that if Fitz or James were there at 13 they'd take them? With Fitz being the first preference? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the disagreement. Some wanted to go pure BPA with James and some wanted to go with Payne for need (though Jay claimed they had them both graded equally...)

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well didn't we see multiple insiders say that if Fitz or James were there at 13 they'd take them? With Fitz being the first preference? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the disagreement. Some wanted to go pure BPA with James and some wanted to go with Payne for need (though Jay claimed they had them both graded equally...)

 

Yep that was the other part of it, it wasn't just one beat guy but just about all of them singing that song.  Our resident mod insider said the same.  Cooley said he talked to Jay and if I recall a scout on the day of the draft and suggested based on that conversation them skipping over James really surprised him.   

 

thought it was funny that Doug called Jonathan Allen right before he made the pick saying you better be right.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just re-listened to Doug. 

 

Sheehan asked, was there a moment when there wasn't a consensus? 

Doug:  Yeah...On the first pick:   "There were some people (in the room) that wanted to go another way, and some people want to go the other way.".... we had to make a choice, it wasn't an easy choice, (two players were being debated about)

[bedlamVR]

I don't see it as a bad thing they were debating it - I think there is good value in James and Payne - The other thing to consider is that we just last year did this - Draft a D lineman from Alabama with the first pick and even if it was a perceived need did it have to be addressed with the 1st overall again OR is it a case that they wanted to share the wealth . 

 

I do agree they may have been spooked that if they didn't grab the guy they really liked in Payne and dropped back then there could have been a run on D line that engulfed Payne and the fall back (Settle) before 44 and they would have come up scabling for a prospect later in the draft. 

 

There is lots to go into these conversations. 

 

I will be interested to see who has the better career - and while it is fun to debate now in the aftermath of the draft we will not know for another couple of years - and if you really can see that far into the future can you not do me a favour and just glance at the winning lottery numbers along the way - and y'know pm me or somethng  

[Peregrine]

So basically we have no idea what happened, because people are saying different things.

 

To be honest Id be more concerned if there was unanimous consensus on the first pick, that would show decisions being made in a vacuum, there should be people who disagree with just about every pick to make sure theres good push and pull.

[thebluefood]

Looked over the draft and it looks like the team addressed the major, glaring problems it has (especially by drafting up new offensive linemen and a running back). 

 

I'm not a draft junkie (I don't really think the 'Skins season actually begins until Week 9) so who knows how much this is actually going to help but it seems like the team is at least trying to address its major deficiencies. Only one way to find out.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Is that really how much he got paid though? I thought he got his money from last year but not the roster bonus from this year.

Grant Paulsen‏Verified account @granthpaulsen

FollowingFollowing @granthpaulsen

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The #Redskins would deal with significant dead cap penalties if they release Terrell McClain after a disappointing season. (Pre June 1st: $3.75M dead, $937K cap space created. Post June 1st: $1.25M dead, but they'd create $3.4M cap space).

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I know we disagree on this as to whether its right, but I really think our FO has a anti (or at least minimal) FA philosophy. Particularly at DT where we've been burned over and over again Stubby, Wilkerson, and Haynesworth are the biggest names, but also McClain lately, Hood, Reyes, its all over the spectrum. Add to that the idea of re-signing the trio of 2016 picks and I think there's more to the equation. Like, what happens if we start to re-sign players in July? Is that something that we wouldn't have been able to do with Hatcher?

 

Maybe this year they have a minimalist philosophy but got my doubts about that too -- its part of the reason why I've harped on the FA thread that more might be coming.

 

They do spend in FA, they spend to their cap just about every year.  But they prefer to buy quantity -- look at D line for example -- Paea, Knighton, Reyes, McClain, McGee.  All the stop gap safeties, etc.  Whereas for example Jacksonville goes M. Jackson one year, Calais Campbell in another.

 

I understand we've made bad choices on big names under Cerrato but I don't want FA to be predicated on the idea that other teams can get it right and we can't with the bigger names so lets not try.  If anything Bruce's bargain basement shopping has mostly failed.  When he goes outside that approach and chases bigger names -- those actually work out for the most part -- Garcon, D. Jax, Norman.

[The Consigliere]

On 4/28/2018 at 12:51 PM, HigSkin said:

 

 

This is something that always confuses me. If this is so, why did they take Akpe in the fourth instead of Settle? They had Akpe also with a third round grade? They thought there was a stronger chance Settle fell? I just don't get this reasoning, we benefited from it twice (with the trade down for Guice, and Guice still inexplicably being there, and with Settle). While it turned out okay, seems like a risky proposition to indulge in that could bite us in the rear a ton if we play that game too much. Just happy it didn't this time. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep that was the other part of it, it wasn't just one beat guy but just about all of them singing that song.  Our resident mod insider said the same.  Cooley said he talked to Jay and if I recall a scout on the day of the draft and suggested based on that conversation them skipping over James really surprised him.   

 

thought it was funny that Doug called Jonathan Allen right before he made the pick saying you better be right.

 

 

I honestly wonder how much of it had to do with the Giants taking Barkley instead of a QB. Maybe that tipped some people in the direction of going with Payne.

[Jericho]

The one thing I found interesting is how many younger/underclassman the team took. Five of the Eight draft picks came out early: (1) Da'Ron Payne; (2) Derrius Guice; (3) Geron Christian; (5) Tim Settle; and (7) Trey Quinn. As did at least one of the UDFAs in Simmie Cobbs Jr. 

 

I always feels there's some potential growth there, rather than draft 23 year old rookies. It may or may not pan out, but nice to see some younger guys too.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I honestly wonder how much of it had to do with the Giants taking Barkley instead of a QB. Maybe that tipped some people in the direction of going with Payne.

 

Adding it all together.  Here's my theory.

 

A. They had Edmonds and Payne rated with the same grade (Keim)

B.  They had Derwin James rated ahead of Payne (most reporters)

C.  When the Giants took Barkley it reinforced their weakness against the run

D. They intended to take Derwin James -- a debate ensued though about Payne before the pick

E.  Who was on what side of the James versus Payne debate, hard to tell

 

I'd hazard a guess that Jay was among the James people considering Cooley said he talked to Jay on draft day and got a sense of what he was thinking -- based on that the Payne decision surprised him.  Cooley actually defined it when it happened as a panic pick -- he was shocked by it.  And he was shocked because of the conversations he had with multiple people before the pick

 

As for what really happened.  Who knows.  But I've seen enough smoke on this to be convinced it was not a decision that everyone agreed with in the draft room -- as Doug flat out said.

 

 

[Tay]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll re-listen to the last doug interview shortly and see if I misheard him. 

 

In that Doug interview I could have sworn he flat out said there were people in that room who wanted them to draft another player. 

 

As for Craig, I listened to him Sunday, too.  I also listened to him before that. He initially said it was a tie but the tie breaker went to position of need.  But then when pushed on it by someone he admitted that he wasn't told that, he was just told by one of their scouts it was between James and Payne -- and Hoffman said he just assumed that's how they made their tie breaker choice but he wasn't told that part of it specifically.  On Sunday, he was going the tie breaker thing again but didn't say he knows that outright for sure. 

 

The beat guys have hinted they aren't not sure Payne was tops on their board -- forgot which one said it but one said (maybe Tandler) they panicked a bit when Vea went and saw the Giants took Barkley. 

 

I'll re-listen to Doug's interview to see if I heard him right but if I did, I'd trust it 100%.  It would be weird for him to make it up.  Not his style.  Doug seems ultra honest maybe to a fault I gather to the rest of the FO.  

I used "unanimous" based on Jay's comments.

 

There was definitely debate between James and Payne.

 

They ultimately went Payne because of fit.

 

Hoffman stated they would have went with Fitz over Payne, because Fitz had a more natural fit in the defense. He could have come in and started in the slot immediately.

 

Hoffman did say they had a same grade on James/Payne. He also said he reached out to a scout from another team, and that team had the same grade on the two as well.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Tay said:

 

Hoffman did say they had a same grade on James/Payne. He also said he reached out to a scout from another team, and that team had the same grade on the two as well.

 

Hoffman also said in another segment was that he was assuming the same grade part of it.  He said he knew the debate was between James and Payne.  Doug who was in the actual room said there was flat out disagreement on it.  He would know.   Why would he make up that there was dissension?