The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Playaction2Sanders]

This is how my warped mind is looking at this.

 

- You have Smith now whose cheaper than Cousins, could maybe lead you to the same record with this patchwork roster for one season that has little depth as proven last year. 

 

-They're drafting a QB in the 1st round, Smith will tutor him for a couple years till their ready.

 

- I don't like losing Fuller, but you have Moreau lying in wait, same kinda prospect, Day 1 talent who fell due to injury. What can you get out of him.. You can always get another CB in FA to fill Breelands shoes..

 

- However this plan looks, will it work out. I have no clue. Maybe years down the road we'll look at this trade differently.. KC could be looking at a situation where they can't afford 2 expensive CB's and our reign with our new QB is just beginning. One can hope..

[88Comrade2000]

11 minutes ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

This is how my warped mind is looking at this.

 

- You have Smith now whose cheaper than Cousins, could maybe lead you to the same record with this patchwork roster for one season that has little depth as proven last year. 

 

-They're drafting a QB in the 1st round, Smith will tutor him for a couple years till their ready.

 

- I don't like losing Fuller, but you have Moreau lying in wait, same kinda prospect, Day 1 talent who fell due to injury. What can you get out of him.. You can always get another CB in FA to fill Breelands shoes..

 

- However this plan looks, will it work out. I have no clue. Maybe years down the road we'll look at this trade differently.. KC could be looking at a situation where they can't afford 2 expensive CB's and our reign with our new QB is just beginning. One can hope..

We just traded a 3rd round pick & player:Fuller to get Alex. A player that some have said had first round talent and was the key to the trade.  We extended the player's contract for 4 years after this year. Finally, we are guaranteeing him 70 million dollars of that contract.

 

We aren't drafting a QB in the first round or even 2nd round.  We gave Alex a contract, so that he's our starter for at least 2-3 years.  We will draft that QB to groom later in the draft.  If the team has a losing season as expected; that will lead to Jay's firing and maybe Bruce's removal. Odds are we could draft another QB to groom in 2019; if we don't like who we draft this year.

[Peregrine]

If we gave up a 2nd for Smith, Im not sure I would have been happy with it.  But throwing in a guy who would be worth a 1st rounder if he continued his progress this year I just dont get.  I was convinced it was some kind of sick joke.

 

And maybe in a Bruce Allen way, it is.  Trade your up and coming 2nd year player for a 34 year old game manager, and then throw in 94 million and a 3rd round pick.  And give up any hope of getting a 3rd or something for Cousins.  All with the same stroke of a pen.

[Burgold]

This trade feels like an Ernie Grunfield move. It's a short term patch job that simultaneously robs us of a good player. We've developed too few to easily let Fuller go. I don't hate getting Smith and I believed Cousins wanted out. I'd have rather rolled with Colt and got a QB in the draft this year or next while building the team.

[Tsailand]

Soooo anyone still think Bruce grades out at a C-?

[FrFan]

 

[srtman04]

WTF is wrong with this FO??  I have hit my breaking point, I'm done.  I can't take anymore insanity and epic bad decisions by this FO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wilco_holland]

2 hours ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

- I don't like losing Fuller, but you have Moreau lying in wait, same kinda prospect, Day 1 talent who fell due to injury. What can you get out of him.. You can always get another CB in FA to fill Breelands shoes..

 

You are not wrong but I think we have a CB personnel issue. 

 

Fuller is really good at inside corner. Slot corner. The third CB on the field. Moreau is more suited for the outside corner position. Just like Dunbar. So we need to find out if either Moreau or Dunbar can take Bree his place and find a slot corner (draft is loaded with that this year). 

[UKskins]

I'm coming at this from a UK perspective here, but I wonder if anything like this has ever happened in US sports (any of them)?

 

In the late 1990s, the "soccer" team I support, Norwich City, had an owner that sold all our best young players, and was basically running the club into the ground. The fans numbers had already dwindled to the hardcore elements of the support, but rather than drifting away, they fought and they fought hard against the ownership. There was a mass movement of protest. Banners demanding the owner leaves were in the stands and there were multiple protests and rallies against the ownership in and around the ground on gamedays.

 

We have seen the falling attendances at FedEx with Snyder having to remove seats to avoid blackouts, opposing fans having a home game in our stadium etc. This trade and the loss of Cousins (not to mention the abject stupidity of the timing of this trade removing any hope we had of getting anything for Cousins as our only play for that was to transition and demand compensation not to use it) will be the last straw for many. Ticket sales will presumably be down etc etc, we're not doing anything good anytime soon and we have given Smith a LTD at pretty close to Cousins numbers and lost a pick and a decent defensive player in the process.

 

Now I'm willing to be cautious on judging this move -Right now I hate it, I am OK with the trade as a structure but Fuller was the wrong piece to give up.... but I want to see if there is a plan (I'm a half-full glass guy despite the frequent Redskins disappointment) - If we pick up someone like Lauletta to groom behind Alex Smith, take a marquee RB or a really good ILB (and pick up a decent RB in FA - I don't think there are many FA RBs worth paying though to be fair) in the 1st round and Moreau steps into Fuller's shoes and we don't lose production there, then this trade makes a lot of sense to me. However, it's equally likely with BA at the helm of this FO that we trade all our remaining draft picks to move into the top 5 of the draft and pick up a really great Punter so y'know I'm gonna reserve my judgement at least until the draft is played out.

 

So my question really here, is given that I've seen one of my teams' fanbases come together and successfully drive an owner out of the club, is there any possibility that RedskinsNation could do the same and get rid of Danny and the Tampa Boys Club? Has it ever happened in US sports (I know people have protested about franchises moving - eg Baltimore Colts) but I'm talking specifically about dethroning an emperor here? Is that something people think could happen? I think most people are at breaking point with Dan now, and enough is enough, so will we see protests? Could you even get away with it or would they say block entry to FedEx if you had an anti-Dan banner at the tailgate? Would there then be efforts to take the team out of Washington into another market altogether?

 

I'm really interested to know what the ramifications would likely be, and whether it is even plausible in the US? If it's possible, then is there enough ill-will from the fanbase or has Alex Smith appeased enough people - it's clearly a polarising decision with the majority hating it, but a significant minority think it's an OK deal from what I can see in the thread

[goskins10]

 

After my initial - WTF??? I am shocked this I saying that but I really do not hate it. Not saying I love it, but I actually do not hate it. 

 

Before elaborating, this does not get BA off the hook. He bungled Kirk from the beginning. They team should have Kirk locked up for not much more than they will be paying for Alex Smith. There is no getting around that it was handled with the grace of 3 toed sloth on a greasy pole - try getting that image out of your mind.... Also, my #1 preference was to have Kirk the the Redskins starter for the next 5+ years. 

 

But if you make a few reasonable assumptions, this is not horrible:

1. Kirk just did not want to play here. I never heard him say it and I disagreed with others taking this position but my guess is he told the team, or his agent did, that Kirk really wanted out. 

2. You absolutely cannot franchise tag him so that leaves the transition tag. It does not take much math to see it would be difficult to match some of the potential offers Kirk might get. 

3. Kirk has made his preference known of where he wants to go and that team is up for trading. more on that later. 

 

Let's get the negatives out of the way:

1. Smith is an older less athletic version of Kirk that despite chances has not produced in the post season. He also had a better supporting cast while jsut barely performing as well as Kirk just this season. All other season he was not nearly as productive. 

2. Kirk is very likely to  be just reaching his prime and could truly get to even another level in the next few years. 

3. Some players may bolt if they were big Kirk fans. Norman, Brown, maybe others It's hard to tell but it's certainly possible. 

4. Losing a very good CB in Fuller. 

 

The positives:

1. The drama is over! I know there will quickly be several - the team should have kept Kirk with every missed pass attempt and a nearly nuclear explosion if he throws any picks. But for better or worse at least we know who is playing QB for a few years. 

2. The less salary will help sign other players. Not sure this is as big an impact as others believe, but you cannot deny having more money at least gives the team more options. 

3. Unless the contract is fully guaranteed - which I severely doubt, there will be a 2 or 3 yr off-ramp so the team can draft a young QB either this year or next and let them sit behind a very capable starter. 

4. We can finally put to rest the Jay likes Colt better bull****! If that were the case the trade never happens. Jay knows what Colt is - a back-up. Ok, that one was probably just me, but so be it. 

5. This actually makes it easier for the Redskins to tag and trade him. Teams know the redskins will be letting him go is no one offers a trade. And once on the open market, teams without as much pure open CAP will be at a disadvantage - looking at you Denver. You get to let Kirk decide where he wants to go which gives him incentive to ask that team to work out a trade with the Redskins. Now if he is a pure mercenary, he will not do that. But I believe he has a choice destination.

6. The team can draft the player they want either this year on next and get on a more normal cycle. 

7. Doing something this early lets them focus on the rest of the team during the entire off-season without that uncertainty that has plagued the team the last few years, 

 

Additional comment: 

Don;t love losing Fuller, but there is plenty of depth there and for the first time since snyder got her there is a coaching staff that can make people better. And before people say that's not true - look no further than Fuller himself. Most on this board wanted him gone after year one. He was "trash, garbage, useless, a wasted pick" etc. But he really improved with Torrian Gray. And there are guys behind him. DB may just be the deepest position on the team. If the team gets anything in a Cousins trade, this could really work out. 

 

I still think Bruce Allen is an idiot and should be fired. But despite that, there are reasons to like this trade, or at least it's potentail, even though before now I was a definite no on Alex Smith. 

[Kurd Cudins]

5 hours ago, Burgold said:

This trade feels like an Ernie Grunfield move. It's a short term patch job that simultaneously robs us of a good player. We've developed too few to easily let Fuller go. I don't hate getting Smith and I believed Cousins wanted out. I'd have rather rolled with Colt and got a QB in the draft this year or next while building the team.

George McPhee says hi.

[FrFan]

3 hours ago, srtman04 said:

WTF is wrong with this FO??  I have hit my breaking point, I'm done.  I can't take anymore insanity and epic bad decisions by this FO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Atavistic regression: The atavistic hypothesis requires… a regression from normal adult mental function at an intellectual, logical level, to an archaic level of mental function in which the process of suggestion determines the acceptance of ideas.

[Dissident2]

Would've much rather rolled with Colt and KEPT FULLER. He was a guy I was absolutely excited about. This absolutely sucks. Alex Smith. FFS. 

 

Bruce remains a garbage heap of a human being and "GM." Just read the comments from Chiefs fans. Most of them are going nuts with joy. 

[httrcirca87]

Allen must go. He's destroying the team. This is a fiasco of his own making. 

[bowhunter]

4 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

 

You are not wrong but I think we have a CB personnel issue. 

 

Fuller is really good at inside corner. Slot corner. The third CB on the field. Moreau is more suited for the outside corner position. Just like Dunbar. So we need to find out if either Moreau or Dunbar can take Bree his place and find a slot corner (draft is loaded with that this year). 

Yeah, hopefully we can pick up a good slot to develop with our 3rd rd pick this year. ....oh wait

[FrFan]

Basically we lost our franchise QB for an older lesser one without getting any compensation via a trade, and lost a promising young and talented CB. This is too much.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'm still processing this, but to evaluate it fairly we have to look at it like this: 

 

Alex Smith, 2019 3rd/4th round pick, more annual cap space

 

for 

 

Kirk Cousins, 2018 3rd round pick, less annual cap space, Kendall Fuller

 

IF we are comfortable with the guys we have coming up to replace Fuller and IF we believe we have a plan on how to improve the team by spending the $5-7M per year that we'll save THEN it may be a fair trade. 

[wilco_holland]

10 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I'm still processing this, but to evaluate it fairly we have to look at it like this: 

 

Alex Smith, 2019 3rd/4th round pick, more annual cap space

 

for 

 

Kirk Cousins, 2018 3rd round pick, less annual cap space, Kendall Fuller

 

IF we are comfortable with the guys we have coming up to replace Fuller and IF we believe we have a plan on how to improve the team by spending the $5-7M per year that we'll save THEN it may be a fair trade. 

 

I don't think you can look it at the way, because there is no way Kirk is going to stay here. Sure if you tag him again, he will sign. Take the 34 milion. But the year after he is then gone. This deal makes me believe that Kirk and Redskins where never going to get a long term deal done. 

[celticsalmon]

So we groom Kirk since 2012.  And as he continually improves - the FO sits idle. Now Kirk becomes a free-agent and he will go on and probably be a star.  And the team will get zero, zip, nada, nothing in return.  That is Bruce Allen/Daniel Snyder.  Sad state of affairs!

[skins island connection]

 Bruce Allen flat out screwed up from the beginning by not getting Cousins signed back in 16'.

 Bruce Allen used the franchise tag on Cousins again in 2017 because of his ignorance and inability to get a deal done. He has pulled this same crap with other organizations as well; a good player wanting to be paid for their level of performance, and Bruce said bye bye to them.

 

Now Alex Smith is a Redskin, which all but signs Cousins GTFO card.

 

It cannot go on anymore; Bruce Allen has to go. Any player who has really exceeded his performance expectations whose contract is coming up will be shown the door as well. Bruce Allen is treating Redskin players like a farm system.

 

This HAS to be the final straw.  This team cannot take any more of Bruce Allen's careless actions; no offense to Alex Smith, but he's just been given his retirement papers, and Bruce has proven he has no idea what he's doing. PLEASE, FIRE BRUCE ALLEN!

[RichmondRedskin88]

Don’t even fire. Take the dumpster out back and dump it’s contents on his head.

[ThomasRoane]

5 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

 

You are not wrong but I think we have a CB personnel issue. 

 

Fuller is really good at inside corner. Slot corner. The third CB on the field. Moreau is more suited for the outside corner position. Just like Dunbar. So we need to find out if either Moreau or Dunbar can take Bree his place and find a slot corner (draft is loaded with that this year). 

 

Fuller outplayed Norman this year.  Made far more plays.  He is a legit starting corner.  Better than any DB on the roster.  More valuable than a career, mediocre game manager who the Chiefs were not even going to play this year.  Colossal screw up. 

 

Once again, Andy Reid pulls Bruce Allen's shirt over his head, beats the hell out of him, and Bruce says "thank you sir may I have another?"

[Reaper Skins]

They did this during the President's speech because they knew the D.C. area would be distracted and they hoped it would get less attention. 

 

They knew the fanbase would hate this move.

[TK]

Just remember.

 

In Bruce's mind, he won. 

[DJHJR86]

If we have another subpar year, I cannot fathom how Bruce Allen (and Jay Gruden for that matter) would last another season.  Meaning we'd be starting all over from top to bottom with an aging veteran who's a step above Tyrod freakin' Taylor.  Unreal.