DC Lumber Co. Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I remember a video of an interview with Pryor back in camp where he was asked what hes learned about Cousins and his answer was that above all else, Kirk has to trust you or you wont get the ball. While Pryor hasnt been the model of trustworthy play, at least hes getting targeted because he has put in the work with Cousins in training camp and is present in practice leading up to games. Not only is Doctsons availability getting on Jays last nerve, if he is being a stubborn baby that wants to get his shine in a game without practicing its never going to get better. While he may have been able to play in games in college without practicing because of how natural he is, its not gonna fly in the NFL. This isnt limited route tree, spread offense, backyard football when plays breakdown chucking it up to Doctson type football. Routes need to be precise and ran at certain depths or the timing is completely thrown off with Cousins 3, 5 & 7-step drops. Also doesnt help that he isnt a pure speed guy that can get a few targets a game without practicing on a fly route or two. It would be one thing if he was an established veteran who Kirk already trusts. He hasnt earned the luxury of suiting up on gameday and being a big part of the gameplan or getting a ton of targets without practicing like Jordan Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSkins21 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 The loss of Jackson and Garcon is getting more apparent with the lack of rhythm. Pryor is non-existent. Outside of Crowder and Reed, they've got NOTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I'm tired of Doctson. Sit him until he's 100 percent. Why did you sign Quick? What about Robert Davis? He's 6'3 and 220lbs. Get these other guys some reps instead of being obsessed over a injury prone 1st round draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 6 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said: I remember a video of an interview with Pryor back in camp where he was asked what hes learned about Cousins and his answer was that above all else, Kirk has to trust you or you wont get the ball. And this is the reason Doctson is not on the field IMO. I started to think about this when Gruden brought up "practicing" last week regarding Doctson for him to get on the field during game day. What Gruden should have said honestly was for Doctson to be considered as a target on game day he and Cousin's must practice together during the week. I think for Cousins it appeals to his obsessive compulsive comfortability bull **** and Gruden simply places a very high priority on practicing regardless of the talent level of the player. He does make exceptions like he did for Jackson when he was with the Skins but he has been in the league for years and has established himself as a unique talent. And so until Doctson works out his soft as puppy **** issues and practices he is not going to play. And it sucks because I think he is an exceptional talent. And this is why the pro bowl practicer Ryan Grant has been targeted often in both games. And he has done okay but he is not of the caliber of Doctson IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabbypatty Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Man, our wr's must suck something awful to not even get looked at through 60 minutes of football. Doctson was targeted once? and of course it was an incompletion.. he probably hurt something else NOT catching the ball. Kirk seems to be unwilling to look for either when he needs a completion and that's a bad thing.. we're gonna get decimated by better teams that are not the rams. This is gonna be an ugly year. I thought this team would win 11 games before the season started, but after seeing them 2 weeks in a row I'm wondering if they'll win 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I wonder how covered or open the receivers would look if we got a chance to see the game field. Does anyone subscribe to that service? Was anyone at the game who can report? Are the receivers really never getting open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 It' just to hard to say IMO. Crowder's 'obviously, Grant's a hard worker. People complain about Pryor's drops but all WRs drop some balls and it's not like he's dropped more than he's caught. Frankly I thought there were a lot of passes yesterday where Kirk took the snap and then threw it instantly to the opposite side of the field as Pryor. And Doctson, it sucks he';s hurt so much. But you're not supposed to keep injuries or pain from coaches and they decide what to do from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 It's been said before, I'll say it again here. Kirk is a slow starter. He's always average the first two weeks. Let's not turn this into a referendum about his contract and if he's worth it, let's just acknowledge that the passing game hasn't been outstanding for the first few games for each of the last couple seasons. Pryor had that nice catch and run yesterday. Let's see if that gives him a boost. Chris Thompson had that key drop out of the backfield but we all know he's more reliable than that. But also, this is what you get, IMO, when you barely play your starters in pre-season games. I understand the aspect of not wanting to get your guys hurt but there's also a cavalier attitude of "we'll be ready for week 1" that's never come to pass (pun not intended). I have to think that if Cousins and Pryor had more chances in the pre-season under fire they'd be better right now. I hate the "gotta give them some time" excuse as much as anyone else, but I think we're left with no other option here because it didn't get done in the pre-season. What's fine for other teams is fine for other teams. If a team like Green Bay, for example, feels that they can be totally prepared for the season by letting Rodgers play one or two series each pre-season game then that's good for them. It clearly doesn't work for us. I'd also like to take this opportunity to puff my chest a little in regards to Doctson. I said this off-season that he shouldn't be counted on for anything in regards to the receiving corps plans and the early returns prove that to be exactly correct. At this point I don't see how he's going to get enough playing time to make an impact. He's always got a leg issue of some kind and when he's on the field you might as well be lining up with 10 men, he's a ghost. Sure, the dude is a world class talent, we can all agree on that. We probably said the same about Devin Thomas and Malcom Kelly, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I dont think the drop in targets for Pryor was an accident. It's gonna continue to be in that 4-5 area until he earns back some trust, I think. Pryor doesnt look confident out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Pryor?... I don't think the drop in attempts for Cousins was an accident which will limit Pryor and everyone else. Since this happens every year, it was high time for Gruden to not ignore Cousins early struggles. Kirk was meh overall - a bit of a game manager win. He had a nice drive to seal the victory. He threw one high and hard to Crowder than I am sure will be logged as a drop but think he missed a big play there. That along with the drop by CT hurt his stat line quite a bit. But our WRs were meh. 7 total catches. Pryor looks confident but Jay likely no longer has confidence in him. Doctson looks lost, including on the now annual ugly fade but the throw was ugly too. Crowder had yet another quiet day 4 for 47 yds but did have the nice YAC for a first. Overall not a great week to judge the WRs with a strong run game. But prepare for the fallout.es next week if we see 2 fades in a row to Grant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAskins Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 4 hours ago, SAli457180 said: The loss of Jackson and Garcon is getting more apparent with the lack of rhythm. Pryor is non-existent. Outside of Crowder and Reed, they've got NOTHING. I really think the loss of Garcon hurts us more than anything. You could always count on him to make the touch catches to move the chains. He as a good blocker too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, RVAskins said: I really think the loss of Garcon hurts us more than anything. He could always count on him to make the touch catches to move the chains. He as a good blocker too. Agreed 100%. Jackson is a luxury, Garcon is a need. With that said, I can understand why the team didn't re-sign him at the money SF offered him. What sucks for him is that he'll be on his last leg by the time SF even has a shot at being good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 5 hours ago, RVAskins said: I really think the loss of Garcon hurts us more than anything. You could always count on him to make the touch catches to move the chains. He as a good blocker too. Actually, I agree and disagree at the same time. I think that what DJax brought to the team is hard to quantify. Defenses KNEW that they couldn't cover him 1:1 with just a corner, so they HAD to assign a safety to cover him over the top. Did that mean DJax got all the looks/touches? No, but he drew coverage, specifically in the middle, away from other receivers because defenses had to cover more of the field. Garcon/Crowder and Reed all benefited from this, because you could almost guarantee that the defense would roll his way, so there was more space elsewhere. Now, especially because NOBODY is afraid of Grant, and Pryor/Doctson haven't proved they can beat a defense deep, everything is getting compressed. And that's making life harder on everybody, including Kirk. The fact that Grant is essentially the #1 WR on this team speaks to how crappy the situation is. And why the pass game looks like it's stuck in the mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I loved seeing Ryan Grant in his presser, It's gotta suck when falling down during your routes is your call to fame up until now lol. Picture perfect route/catch/foot drag. Gettem Grant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 12 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said: It's been said before, I'll say it again here. Kirk is a slow starter. He's always average the first two weeks. Let's not turn this into a referendum about his contract and if he's worth it, let's just acknowledge that the passing game hasn't been outstanding for the first few games for each of the last couple seasons. teams that are 0-2 have a 12% chance of making the playoffs. Slow starting QBs can lead to 0-2 starts. Seems like that should be taken into consideration on his contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 At this point, Kirk shouldn't be "slow starting" That's not really a thing for a vet. At least it's not an excusable thing. He needs to know what he needs to do to be ready and get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Burgold said: At this point, Kirk shouldn't be "slow starting" That's not really a thing for a vet. At least it's not an excusable thing. He needs to know what he needs to do to be ready and get it done. I know what you are saying but isn't chemistry and timing important too? With his new WR it might take couple of games though. I am okay with the slow start as long as it is in the positive direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, zskins said: I know what you are saying but isn't chemistry and timing important too? With his new WR it might take couple of games though. I am okay with the slow start as long as it is in the positive direction. Yes and no. If the slow start is his timing being off with the receivers that's one thing. If he's wildly inaccurate that's another. Kirk actually has plenty of legit reasons to be off: New OC, New receivers, injured receivers who didn't practice or play in preseason. I think when judging Cousins all that should be kept in mind, but so far this season, it should also be noted that Kirk has just looked way off. His balls, especially in that first game, weren't about miscommunication or timing, they were just really bad throws. There's also an issue of touch vs. laser. He seems rusty on that too and that's a QB issue more than a wide receiver issue. There have been several throws he gunned in there where more touch would have made an easy catch and resulted in a huge play. Other plays, like the miss to Thompson after he escaped are just about the QB too. A lollipop gets you a first down and a whole lot more. A top QB really shouldn't overshoot those. Anyway, I probably sound harder on Cousins than I mean too. I do expect a better start and think he should be playing better, but there are plenty of mitigating factors. On the plus side, when it mattered he got it done against the Rams. In week one, he looked worst than most rookie QBs do. Franchise QBs shouldn't ever be that bad (even though all of them have games that bad or worse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, Burgold said: .... Anyway, I probably sound harder on Cousins than I mean too. I do expect a better start and think he should be playing better, but there are plenty of mitigating factors. On the plus side, when it mattered he got it done against the Rams. In week one, he looked worst than most rookie QBs do. Franchise QBs shouldn't ever be that bad (even though all of them have games that bad or worse). I am wondering after listening to him on the Radio today how much of these 1st two games has to do with his baby due any day. I will agree his head is not totally in the game as he should be able to make those passes with ease by now. I know it is not an excuse but the human factor is there. I know how I was with my first born too. By the time we had our 3rd it was not as much nerve wrecking even though she the doc had to do C section...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, carex said: teams that are 0-2 have a 12% chance of making the playoffs. Slow starting QBs can lead to 0-2 starts. Seems like that should be taken into consideration on his contract So can ****ty defenses. But hey, let's not things like that get in the way of a narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: So can ****ty defenses. But hey, let's not things like that get in the way of a narrative. the defense doesn't get a group contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Whatever the struggles might be now, that doesn't mean we should have paid Garçon or Jackson the money they got on the free agent market. It was the right move to let them walk. Just because the brain trust foolishly relied on Josh Doctson to be part of that replacement plan doesn't make letting them walk the wrong decision 2 hours ago, carex said: teams that are 0-2 have a 12% chance of making the playoffs. Slow starting QBs can lead to 0-2 starts. Seems like that should be taken into consideration on his contract Why doesn't the coaching staff do something in the preseason to get those QB in rhythm and better prepared to avoid a slow start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I understand on certain kind of routes and plays there has to be trust. especially the routes where the QB has to throw the ball "knowing" the WR is going to make a certain break. Basically the QB is throwing the ball to an open part of the field and the WR is supposed to break towards it. That is all fine and good. However, if Doctson is running more simple routes and he is beating his man and getting open, I am not trying to hear "trust" as a reason Cousins hasn't thrown him the ball. (This isn't to suggest Doctson is doing this, I am just making the point of going through your reads and finding the open guy, regardless of who it is). The more i look at the WR core, I think Crowder is basically in the same role because it suits him well. Pryor was brought in as the experimental physical freak with tons of upside but still unpolished and raw. Doctson was looked at as the blue chipper who once healthy would be tearing things up and showing the world why he was 1st round pick would allow Pryor to moved along more slowly, maybe start out as a possession WR due to his size and then have more added in. As it stands now, nobody has a good reason why Doctson is......whatever. That in turn has forced Pryor into the role as the #1 WR anchoring the core, which is not a role he belongs in right now (maybe never to be honest). I don't want to hear about his 1,000 yard season. When you are the only viable WR on the team, you will be forced the ball enough to get stats. Rod Gardner was a 1,000 WR with a nickname "50/50" and once he left this team and was asked to step it up, he barely registered a blip on the radar and was out of the NFL. Until Doctson is on the field and making a difference I don't think anything will be going "according to plan." It doesn't mean there isn't/won't be a Plan B or C that ends up working over time, but I really think Plan A is contingent on Doctson being a stud #1 WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey hodge Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Doctson is a freaking magical unicorn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 9 hours ago, carex said: the defense doesn't get a group contract ....not really. I mean, there's a budget involved for everyone, not just the QB. How much the Skins spend on defense is worth noting. To ignore the lack of defense during Kirk's tenure is ignoring a giant problem with this team overall. Fantastic QB play can only get you so far, they need to have a solid (not spectacular) defense if they want to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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