twa Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Just now, Larry said: So you're saying that when you can't dispute what the other poster says, you'll try to claim he said something else? (We already knew that.) perhaps you need to use this quote on the post that quoted me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, Larry said: So you're saying that when you can't dispute what the other poster says, you'll try to claim he said something else? (We already knew that.) If only the GOP would be honest. Think the ACA sucks? Will do anything you can to kill it? Stand up on your hind legs and take credit for what you did. Drop the "oh, no, we didn't do anything, it's all those other guy's fault!" act. I’m thrilled that the GOP fought a good fight against the ACA. It’s a shame that folks on the left can’t comprehend why people oppose it. You folks did it. You passed the turd you’re still desparately trying to shine. You should own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, twa said: for supposedly bright people ya'll really suck at presenting your case and default to blaming everyone else. Maybe better choices will make up for your deficiencies? The same could be better argued about "y'all".? You coulda had Jeb!...a person with a functional brain. (yeah, I just typed that, and meant it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Maybe we should take this debate over to the Obamacare thread where it belongs and get back to discussing venality, incompetence, corruption, crumbling alliances, and bad hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 You can lead a horse's ass to wisdom, but you can't make him think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 46 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: I’m thrilled that the GOP fought a good fight against the ACA. It’s a shame that folks on the left can’t comprehend why people oppose it. You folks did it. You passed the turd you’re still desparately trying to shine. You should own it. The ACA is certainly a flawed law, but the Republicans had almost 8 years to come up with a good alternative and they didn't. I don't think they wanted to. It let them have something to yell and scream about for years without having to actually do, ya know, the hard work that comes with trying to find a solution and replacement. So then they suddenly find themselves in a position where they have all 3 branches of government and had a realistic shot of replacing it with something and, since they had spent the last 8 years crying about the ACA as opposed to coming up with a well structured alternative, they threw together a slapdash turd sundae in about a month that Americans opposed by historic numbers the more they found out about it. So now what they're doing is deliberately dismantling certain portions of the ACA knowing full well that it will actively harm many Americans (in fact I think they're counting on it) so that when things get really bad they can just say "well, see? we said the ACA was a horrible law!" and try to blame the Democrats. Truly amazing governance in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Oh boy... from collusion didn’t occur to collusion isn’t a crime. End times folks. End times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said: You folks did it. You passed the turd you’re still desparately trying to shine. You should own it. Just wanna point out that you blame Democrats for electing Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said: I’m thrilled that the GOP fought a good fight against the ACA. It’s a shame that folks on the left can’t comprehend why people oppose it. You folks did it. You passed the turd you’re still desparately trying to shine. You should own it. People don't oppose it. With the exception of the individual mandate, take every major facet of the ACA, and ask people if they like it, and they approve of it. (And, unfortunately, the individual mandate is necessary.) Ask people if they like the ACA, as a whole, and they approve of it. If you ask people if they like "Obamacare", a slim plurality oppose it. (If you lump the people who want to eliminate it, and the people who think it didn't go far enough, together.) If the voters (as a whole) actually wanted it repealed, the GOP would have done so. And immediately, loudly, taken credit for doing so. And I haven't seen a single person trying to claim that the Dems didn't pass Obamacare. They only refuse to take credit for the Republican sabotage of it. You know, the parts that the Republicans did. (And are still doing. And denying that they're doing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said: I’m thrilled that the GOP fought a good fight against the ACA. It’s a shame that folks on the left can’t comprehend why people oppose it. You folks did it. You passed the turd you’re still desparately trying to shine. You should own it. "Gotta get rid of that unconstitutional Obamacare. Burn it to the ground. But don't touch my ACA. I need that to help with my dialysis." - way too many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 35 minutes ago, mistertim said: The ACA is certainly a flawed law, but the Republicans had almost 8 years to come up with a good alternative and they didn't. I don't think they wanted to. It let them have something to yell and scream about for years without having to actually do, ya know, the hard work that comes with trying to find a solution and replacement. So then they suddenly find themselves in a position where they have all 3 branches of government and had a realistic shot of replacing it with something and, since they had spent the last 8 years crying about the ACA as opposed to coming up with a well structured alternative, they threw together a slapdash turd sundae in about a month that Americans opposed by historic numbers the more they found out about it. So now what they're doing is deliberately dismantling certain portions of the ACA knowing full well that it will actively harm many Americans (in fact I think they're counting on it) so that when things get really bad they can just say "well, see? we said the ACA was a horrible law!" and try to blame the Democrats. Truly amazing governance in action. Right. The GOP doesn’t want anything that makes the Govt in charge of healthcare. Why fix it? Let it die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Meanwhile while they play political football, we get screwed. Our healthcare system is broken, and the GOP's answer is "So?" followed by "we will oppose anything except the status quo that makes our donors a lot of money." We pay the price while these clowns **** with our lives (with our blessing, because for some stupid ****ing reason, people still think the GOP wants to do anything except help their very small group of wealthy people that they care about. If you're reading this, you aren't one of them.) and we still go round and round and round and round and round. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Right. The GOP doesn’t want anything that makes the Govt in charge of healthcare. Why fix it? Let it die Still refusing to give the GOP responsibility for their actions. They're not "letting it die", and haven't been, from day one. They've been intentionally breaking it. And then they, and you, run forth and lie about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Our government, specifically the GOP isn't concerned with solving any problems for the people. They are more concerned with damaging their political opponents and gaining power and wealth for themselves. Nothing gets solved. Problems are not addressed by congress with any intention of fixing anything. It sucks to be held under the yoke of this alongside people who haven't figured out they are under a yoke, and keep cheering the ****s that are keeping us in it.. usually FOR keeping us in it. We the People.. are an inconvenience beyond the vote they con out of us. Cattle arguing over what color they should paint the slaughterhouse floor. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerbee99 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 It's freaking surreal..... Actively Butcher the **** out if a law..... But hey let it die on its own is the **** some people try to sell... While they cut subsidized payments, no penalties for not havung any insurance.... Meanwhile blow up the deficit to hyper charge an economy where if I ain't no economist but I am sure prices will start going up unless interest rates are raised to slow down the pumping of money into the economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Did I just read that Trump called the Koch brothers total jokes inside the GOP? Wow. WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 4 hours ago, twa said: blaming everyone else. it's the liberal motto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, killerbee99 said: It's freaking surreal..... Actively Butcher the **** out if a law..... But hey let it die on its own is the **** some people try to sell... While they cut subsidized payments, no penalties for not havung any insurance.... Meanwhile blow up the deficit to hyper charge an economy where if I ain't no economist but I am sure prices will start going up unless interest rates are raised to slow down the pumping of money into the economy I support Obama, the ACA and def want a better more affordable health care system but ..... forcing relatively healthy people (who dont financially qualify for medicaid) to either pay for health insurance or pay a tax penalty seems like gov't over reach and mandate. If I am young and healthy, I should be able to make the calculated decision to not pay health insurance and self pay as needed. That person accepts the responsibility that if something catastrophic happens to them, they will be bankrupt with hosp bills. I also understand that often times, someone who doesnt have health insurance and needs emergency surgery will costs hospitals and medical providers by having their bill greatly reduced or written off. On top of that, it seems the ACA relies on healthy people who work and dont qualify for medicaid in 2 ways. 1 - if they choose to get health ins, they pay the health ins a good bit of money for ins that they dont really sue so health ins providers get handed money. 2 - they pay the tax penalty. ACA just seems like it relies on healthy working people to subsidize and pay for the unhealthy and sick. I pay for medicaid and medicare in my taxes, neither of which I use or am eligible for. Requiring me to pay a penalty for not wanting to be a part of a scheme in which health ins companies get paid and make billlions is unamerican to me. I dont mind paying for medicaid and medicare. But penalties and mandates go to far. Also, I think the dems knew rolling out the ACA enrollment was actually just a way to get more medicaid eligible people to be signed up for medicaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Larry said: People don't oppose it. With the exception of the individual mandate, take every major facet of the ACA, and ask people if they like it, and they approve of it. (And, unfortunately, the individual mandate is necessary.) Ask people if they like the ACA, as a whole, and they approve of it. If you ask people if they like "Obamacare", a slim plurality oppose it. (If you lump the people who want to eliminate it, and the people who think it didn't go far enough, together.) If the voters (as a whole) actually wanted it repealed, the GOP would have done so. And immediately, loudly, taken credit for doing so. And I haven't seen a single person trying to claim that the Dems didn't pass Obamacare. They only refuse to take credit for the Republican sabotage of it. You know, the parts that the Republicans did. (And are still doing. And denying that they're doing.) I don't now what people you're talking about. But I would think it's likely that they are the ones receiving something without having to pay. While they exist, I'm sure, I don't know a single person who saved $2000 a year with it's passage. To the contrary, everyone I know is paying higher premiums, and have higher deductions. And the rate at which these things have risen far exceed any other time period before it's inception. The company we get our insurance through has had to switch plans 4 times, trying to reduce the impact on employees. Resulting in many having to switch doctors. It's a horrible plan that the D's are responsible for. And the spineless R's are still more concerned with trying to impress the media, so they will like them, (which will never, ever happen) and not surprisingly lack the balls to take full ownership of burying the piece of garbage, with the elections coming up. If they can increase their numbers in the midterms, they may finally take a weedeater to it. I for one, hope they do. EDIT: I do have some Democrat friends that **** and moan as much as I do about the astronomical rise in their costs since it's inception. But they're staunch D's, and will never criticize anything their party does. Especially President Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Ax said: While they exist, I'm sure, I don't know a single person who saved $2000 a year with it's passage. To the contrary, everyone I know is paying higher premiums, and have higher deductions. And the rate at which these things have risen far exceed any other time period before it's inception. This is a statement you should provide some data for. In my previous research, this is not true. You made the claim, prove it. https://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/slower-premium-growth-under-obama/ A starting point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 There. Is. A. Healthcare. Thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Key paragraphs... The average employer-sponsored family premium has gone up by $4,154 under Obama, from 2008, before he took office, to 2014, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation’s annual employer survey conducted with the Health Research & Educational Trust. The catch? That’s relatively slow growth for premiums. The RNC may cast it as bad news, but it’s an improvement compared with the growth in premiums before Obama took office. Under Bush, the average family premiums (including both what employers and employees pay) went up $4,677 in his last six years in office, from 2002 to 2008, an increase of 58 percent. That $4,154 growth under Obama is a 33 percent increase. If we look at Bush’s first six years, the discrepancy gets even bigger: From 2000, the year before Bush was first inaugurated, to 2006, the average family premium went up $5,042, or an increase of 78 percent. (See Exhibit 1.11 on page 31 of the KFF report for these numbers.) Sorry for the insurance derail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: That person accepts the responsibility that if something catastrophic happens to them, they will be bankrupt with hosp bills. Yeah, see that's the problem. That debt is still owed. The hospital and doctors are owed that money, when you go bankrupt those debts are legally cancelled out. That means that the insured people end up having to pick up the slack for you being broke. So your calculated risk just cost the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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